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Originally posted by butcherguy
To call the fires in the Twin Towers an 'open air fire' is not at all accurate.
BTW: Just what is jet fuel composed of? Any carbon in there? Yes, and hydrogen too!
A carbon fueled fire would be a fire fueled by carbon. Common carbon sources would be charcoal, coal, graphite and diamonds. Did they truck that stuff in there to fuel your carbon fire?
Of interest is the maximum value which is fairly regularly found. This value turns out to be around 1200°C, although a typical post-flashover room fire will more commonly be 900~1000°C. The time-temperature curve for the standard fire endurance test, ASTM E 119 [13] goes up to 1260°C, but this is reached only in 8 hr. In actual fact, no jurisdiction demands fire endurance periods for over 4 hr, at which point the curve only reaches 1093°C.
Originally posted by ANOK
But even if the temps were maxed it's still not enough to cause thousands of tons of steel to fail.
Originally posted by Joey Canoli
Originally posted by ANOK
But even if the temps were maxed it's still not enough to cause thousands of tons of steel to fail.
Strawman.
NIST's explanation doesn't rely on heating the core steel all that much.
Just enough to cause high temp creep - 250C or so. And they have physical evidence of that.
Originally posted by ANOK
Steel is not going to fail at 250C, nice try but huge fail.
Originally posted by ANOK
The temps are not going to get any hotter than the standard fire test, otherwise that test would be useless.
So in this test that you refer to, do they use an 80 foot stack above the room to create the kind of draft that would have been present at the WTC Twin Towers?
Give me a room, a steel beam, an eighty foot chimney and a big pool of DIESEL FUEL (less volatile than your jet fuel) and I can cause that beam to collapse under it's own weight in 45 minutes. Ever wonder how they make cast iron? The various components have to melt. Back in the iron age they used charcoal. Melting point???? Since cast iron approximates this composition, its melting point of 1,150 to 1,200 °C (2,102 to 2,192 °F) is about 300 °C (572 °F) lower than the melting point of pure iron. From here...
Yes jet fuel would help ignite other fuel, furniture etc., I already covered that. We know the extent of the fires, there is no secret hidden fire somewhere caused by jet fuel that is not accounted for already. The fuel would not increase the temperatures of the fire above what we know the contents of a typical room fire to be according to the standard fire test.
People just assume because it's a fuel it must be super volatile, when with jet fuel the opposite is true, the gasoline you put in your car is far more volatile and burns at a far higher temperature. A Bic lighter burns hotter, a candle flame burns hotter...
Now, how do they melt steel in order to cast and otherwise manufacture objects? Look on the internet and you will find sites that tell you how to melt steel with waste oil... much less volatile than even diesel fuel. Do you realize how much air is moved by a chimney that is eighty to one hundred feet tall?
Try this site:
Fire melts steel, that's how they make it.
[edit on 25-6-2010 by butcherguy]
Originally posted by AdmiralX
Your link is not leading to anything.
Also, you cite government sources.
Plenty of engineers disagree with NIST and other sources you cite.
I can see corruption, and evil,
EDIT: Another example; a nuclear bomb can destroy an entire city (depending on size of city and yield of nuke). So, you'd argue if a firecracker were placed against a building, it would take out all beams, at the same time, then the city with it. "Smithing" which is what some friends I have do/have done, shows it takes extreme heat and then applied pressure to merely MOLD metals. People who worked in steel mills laugh at the "Fire makes it, so any fire can melt it" view. Duh, but like explosives; BIG difference in environment, application of heat, material limits, etc. You, JOEY, believe 50 pounds of TNT will be just as destructive as a nuke (ANY yield, lol) just because "Explosives destroy things, so it had to have been this." A candle fire can melt a steel beam, or iron beam, or ANY beam for that matter (other than wood or plastic) just like MOLTEN metal and basically human made molten lava metal can? Or, a candle (small/wax) will melt a beam just like the massive heat at a steel mill? Just sad, I am almost disgusted here.
Originally posted by AdmiralX
My son is not even two years old yet, but conversations with him are more intellectually stimulating than reading your MSNBC talking points. What I said makes perfect sense. You are using bank statements to prove the BANK did not commit fraud. If you look back at all of my posts, I KNOW for certain it was an inside job. Instead of names, places, etc; I stick to the visible evidence. These are people who whisper something to me then it comes true 10 months later. Some have done this since I was about 5 years old.
As such, I can browse media, and see which part they are in on (or aware of). Some out there give PARTS of truth, sometimes they get a little melodramatic. However, they are on the right track. I am not saying, "On 9/11, this is going to be carried out" then I did not warn people. NO, I would have. However, it all ties into meetings JFK had, and what happened to him. Also, I suggest you research the Federal Reserve, every "President" since JFK, then an Eisenhower speech. I could not get details, just the overall MACRO plan. Such as, "Rights will be attacked, income levels will fall, USA needs to go down, rest of the world needs to move up so they are on the same level." Like on TV, Obama said, "Move forward, lets not move backwards." That is like saying, "The car you were in was okay, needed some TWEAKING, however we flattened the wheels and want to move toward a Socialistic World Government now." That is what he is TRULY talking about. I'd watch him more closely also before you continue drinking his Koolaid, you conformist you My own gut feeling sees the AC. He speaks, speaks well, but watch his ACTIONS. He, and those before him, have had a plan, and it is continuing. When you no longer can post the propaganda they feed you on here, and you are in a cage with the rest of us (or worse), you'll HOPEFULLY remember this post here and know it was wisdom being offered to you. Satan is not your friend, a FEW more things need to happen, but I am about 80% certain Obama is the AC. Or, the false prophet...time will tell....
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Again, I am wondering most about the collapse time.
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
When the damaged floors started collapsing, I can understand where the anaology might fit, regarding dropping a 200 pound object on a plywood table. Except there was bar more than a single floor and 4 columns holding it up.
But NIST's report falls rather short for my liking on the matter.