Why do Christians worship Jesus as if he were God?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by texastig

 

All that means is that other people said that Jesus was god. Jesus himself said over and over that he was the son of God, or the son of man in the literal sense. He made distinctions between himself and his father- calling his father God, and he wanted for people to have closer connections with his father.

""Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." John 10:31-33

Jesus "CLAIMED to be God" Meaning Jesus made this CLAIM:

"I am the Son of Man."

And the "Son of Man" is not a claim of humanity, but a direct reference to Daniel 7:13-14 from the OT, in which the "Son of Man" is said to having universal authority and everlasting dominion and who receives the worship of ALL nations. Thus the claim amongst the Jews to be the "Son of Man" would be a claim of divinity.

And that's why they wanted him killed... blasphemy.






[edit on 9-6-2010 by NOTurTypical]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I think Ive worked out a compromise belief. I just read the epistles of John and now I think the scriptures are saying that while their spirit is one that people should both believe in God and the son of God. It is saying that their spirit is the same, but, that they are different beings. What do you all think of that interpretation? How is that for a compromise?

They are only different in the sense that God the Father is a Spirit Himself, that same spirit joined with the egg of a woman (Mary) and brought forth a child, Jesus Christ. Who was both 100% man, and 100% God. that's why one of His names is Emmanuel, which means: "God with us."

God is one, but in 3 persons. not 3 different Gods, but one God with his attributes as having 3 persons. It's hard for us as men to understand this attribute of God's nature, but it is what it is.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I am pretty sure that by son of man- correct me if I am wrong that he is saying that he is their connection to heaven. That he is their link to the divine... God would be the all heavenly power but he is the Earthly power.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Ugh, the epistles of john state quite clearly that God is God and that he is the son of God. He may share Gods spirit but he is not God. I will post the relevant passages in a little bit. He is divine, but, he has a different role than God does. They are not one in the same. God wanted him to do things like judge people and be the Earthly connection to spread his teachings.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am pretty sure that by son of man- correct me if I am wrong that he is saying that he is.their connection to heaven. That he is their link to the divine... God would be the all heavenly power but he is the Earthly power.

Nope, it's a direct reference to Daniel 7:13-14. Jesus claims divinity every time he says He is the Son of God, or Son of Man. That's why the Jews wanted Him dead. He was claiming to be God in the flesh, the Messiah.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


When he was claiming to be the son of God all he was claiming was to be the son of God. He told people while he said that not just to believe in him but also his father. The Jews didnt like him becaause he claimed he was the son of God but because he claimed to be the messiah. Reread the book of john.


[edit on 9-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Ugh, the epistles of john state quite clearly that God is God and that he is the son of God. He may share Gods spirit but he is not God. I will post the relevant passages in a little bit. He is divine, but, he has a different role than God does. They are not one in the same. God wanted him to do things like judge people and be the Earthly connection to spread his teachings.

You're almost there..

Jesus Himself plainly says that

"I and the Father are one."

"If you have seen me you have seen the Father."

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

"I AM" is a name Jehovah uses for Himself in the OT.

God has 3 persons as the scriptures reveal, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All 3 are God Almighty, yet at the same time all 3 are one and the same.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

When he was claiming to be. the son of God all he was claiming was to be the son of God. He told people while he said that not just to believe in him but also his father. The Jews didnt like him becaause he claimed he was the son of God but because he claaimed to be the messiah. Reread the book of john.

I know this, the Messiah was prophesied to be God made flesh. By claiming either Son of Man, Son of God, the Messiah, Anointed One, the Christ, all are claims to being God in the flesh.

Here:

"And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

I Timothy 3:16

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Actually according to the Jews, they see the messiah as a redeeming figure and one appointed by God (wikipedia) so you are not completely correct. As I have already explained Jesus was literally the son of God- that is what the scriptures say, and that is what he says. You cant interpret what he says to mean anything else but what he meant literally... according to the scriptures.


[edit on 9-6-2010 by Frankidealist35]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Actually according to the Jews, they see the messiah as a redeeming figure and one appointed by God (wikipedia) so you are not completely correct. As I have already explained Jesus was literally the son of God- that is what the scriptures say, and that is what he says. You cant interpret what he says to mean anything else but what he meant literally... according to the scriptures.

Semantics..

Read up on the term "Hebraisms". There are certain things that Hebrews say and understand to mean a certain thing that when translated to Greek, to Latin, then to English it loses it's original meaning.

Example: "Firstborn"

In English we'd naturally say that this means the first born. (in order) However, in Hebrew, this could mean that, but more importantly it means "chief born" or the most important one born.

Example: David was called "firstborn" many times in the OT, yet he was the youngest of his brothers.

But you're muddling the topic of this thread man, it's a debate about whether Jesus Christ claimed to be God. Which He did, numerous times, and even those seeking to kill Him said that was their chief reason for doing so. "that being a mere man, you claim to be God."

Jesus Christ claimed to be God. So now you have to ask yourself, was he a LIAR, LUNATIC, or LORD?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I am pretty sure whata son is meant the same thing to he Hebrews as it did to us. Also, Jesus didnt repediately claim to be God. He continuously said that God was wih him or that the spirit of God was in him. That is different from him claiiming he is God.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am pretty sure whata son is meant the same thing to he Hebrews as it did to us. Also, Jesus didnt repediately claim to be God. He continuously said that God was wih him or that the spirit of God was in him. That is different from him claiiming he is God.

I give up with you, you're incorrect and plain text reading of the Bible states so. The Pharisees tell him flat out that he's not being put to death for his good works, but for blasphemy because him being a "mere man, claims to be God."

Secondly, it is very important to learn what "Hebraisms" are (Hebrew figures of speech), and what specific terms are Hebraisms. It's vital to get the full rendering of certain terms the Bible uses.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am pretty sure whata son is meant the same thing to he Hebrews as it did to us. Also, Jesus didnt repediately claim to be God. He continuously said that God was wih him or that the spirit of God was in him. That is different from him claiiming he is God.

I give up with you, you're incorrect and plain text reading of the Bible states so. The Pharisees tell him flat out that he's not being put to death for his good works, but for blasphemy because him being a "mere man, claims to be God."

Um, if you look directly at the Christian texts they all say that he is the Son of God. Even the texts saying that he is Godlike, or, that he is with God, or, that he is one with God, admit that he is the Son of God, and that the Father is different from the Son. Take a look at this. He may have been God in the flesh- as to what the scripture says- when he came to Earth, but, he isn't God. I believe that's only because the spirit of the father was with him.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already. Ye are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they as of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he who is not of God heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No man hath beheld God at any time: if we love one another, God abideth in us, and his love is perfected in us: hereby we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father hath sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God abideth in him, and he in God. And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him. Herein is love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he is, even so are we in this world. There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen. And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also.

ebible.org...

Secondly, it is very important to learn what "Hebraisms" are (Hebrew figures of speech), and what specific terms are Hebraisms. It's vital to get the full rendering of certain terms the Bible uses.

I was talking about the Hebrew people. I am 1000% sure that people thought at the time that by someone being the Son of God, that, they meant that they were the Son of God. It didn't make him God. It would make him a god. Jesus was his Son, and, he may share divine qualities- but all of the Christian texts I've read all say that Jesus was just God's son.

reply to post by Frankidealist35
That is why "Son" is capitalized when in reference to Jesus. And I previously stated when Jesus called Himself the Son of God or the Son of Man, that was a direct refence to Daniel 7:13-14 from the OT describing god who would come to Earth in the form of man to redeem man from our sins.

Jesus was fully man, yet also fully God. I agree that Jesus is a separate person than the Father, so is the Holy Spirit. But those 3 persons make up God Almighty which is one God.

God simply has 3 persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It's difficult for us to grasp His nature, but that doesn't mean that it's NOT His nature, that only means we have trouble understanding it. Our understanding is finite.

Pray about it man, God will reveal all truth to you if you humble yourself and ask.

Debates about words written by men.
Jesus said know thyself and ye will know thy God.
And we all debate words.
Only you can know you, each individual has a secret code to the door?
You wil carry your burdens and alms forever.
words of men....men who want and plot.

reply to post by Dr Expired

Debates about words written by men.

Inspired by God

Jesus said know thyself and ye will know thy God.

What? This is nonsense.Please show us where Jesus said this.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Um, if you look directly at the Christian texts they all say that he is the Son of God. Even the texts saying that he is Godlike, or, that he is with God, or, that he is one with God, admit that he is the Son of God, and that the Father is different from the Son. Take a look at this. He may have been God in the flesh- as to what the scripture says- when he came to Earth, but, he isn't God. I believe that's only because the spirit of the father was with him.

You are not looking at the "Christian text". The text says that God is a spirit.
How can the spirit of the father be with Jesus if he is a spirit.How can a spirit have a spirit?

reply to post by oliveoil


Hello oliveoil!

Just want to add thoughts to what you said...I know you dont agree with much of what I have to say...and that is fine but I would like to add a thought for others reading here.

How can the spirit of the father be with Jesus if he is a spirit.How can a spirit have a spirit?

We all have have the Spirit of God with us. Its just a matter of being aware of that, and allowing the Spirit to become our nature, more then our Earthly nature.

Any being in the flesh is not perfect. Flesh distorts what is of Spirit. But we can learn from the nature of the Spirit within us, allowing God to work through us. If attributes like pride, greed, selfishness, jealousy, envy ect....rule us as a being, then the Spirit is not going to be able to work through us, for those natures are in affect, due to our Earthly body complexes. This is why humbleness, honesty, ect....are much needed to be aware of the Spirit within. Getting over the influence of our Earthly bodies and the environments around us helps us be concerned with the Divine purpose of the Spirit of God.

In a sense...we are all children of God/Spirit. Many are just not aware of it. And that is OK....for if they are not aware of it...this shows they are still in need of learning through their Earthly existence and experiences. A being wont have the food of the meal before the milk and the system of growth works perfectly, offering what is needed, when one is ready.

It would do no good....to take all the greedy beings...and suddenly force them to be selfless. This is why I say...its ok what ever path a person is on...for they must be in need of the path they are choosing.

All my best
LV

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Dr Expired

 

Debates about words written by men.

Inspired by God

Jesus said know thyself and ye will know thy God.

What? This is nonsense.Please show us where Jesus said this.

I didn't even respond to it.

lol