Israeli Commando: 'We Had No Choice': (I beleive this guy more than anyone else)

Skellon, you presented info regarding the owners/operators of the Mavi, that it had some terrorist ties and were subsequently investigated by Turkish authorities. Good info.

That being said, maybe that piece of info was taken into account during the planning of the raid by Israeli SF. Still, poor situational awareness on part of the SF team, they should have still identified credible threats and acted accordingly.

S and F for the extra info.

I feel the whole incident was yet another `Anti-Israel` propaganda. Israel itself is practically surrounded by Arabs; so technically the IDF had the right to make sure there were no weapons and only `aid` on board. But I didn't approve of either side doing violence each other. If the flotilla was truly peaceful it wouldn't have gotten into that mess, even on international waters.

Originally posted by anon72
Now I don't blame Israel at all. I hope they disable this newest ship coming. Fools. Instead of abiding by Law, they do this crap. Stick to your guns Israel. Protect your people.

I'm a fan of Israel! BUT WTF WERE THEY DOING IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS KILLING CIVILIANS ABOARD THAT SHIP?

If they had entered its territorial waters, the ballgame would have been different. But in international waters?

They have totally overreacted to a situation that could have been handled differently. This one sucks! PERIOD

The only wrong Israel did in this matter is that the situation occurred in international waters. On that note, the people who are against Israel on this issue win due to a technicality. Regardless of the ship being in international waters, we all know where they were going.

The bottom lines is that if you attack soldiers, then you had better expect to get killed. If I attacked a police officer then I would plan on getting killed or going to jail.

Hamas = Evil
Radical Zionists = Evil

There is no difference. They share guilt and so do the people who voted Hamas to lead them just like Israeli citizens bear some guilt for not demanding a new government.

The people are just caught in the middle. Most Palestinians and Most Jews are just people trying to survive in a cruel place.

Hell, the members of Hamas are not even men. They hide behind women and children.

Whoever was behind this insane plan to run the blockade are the real killers. They knew exactly what they were doing. We have seen the tapes. We now know who they were. Martyrs my butt.

Why even bother. The crazed Islamic nut jobs won't ever stop. If they got everything they wanted today, they would simply move on to the next target. The Zionist extremists are not going to stop coveting something they can't have. The whole thing is a farce on both sides.

Even sadder is the Jew Haters using this for their evil. Yes EVIL! Some people practice their evil hiding behind the curtains.

I have no doubt that poor soldier is telling the truth. He is a victim of the insane people who orchestrated this whole mess just as most of the Palestinians likely are.

Do I smell an Ayers around there? He should be shot, not the people he helped to brainwash. If he is there, he made most of the decisions. Of course Bill never wanted anyone hurt, now did he

This whole thread is an exercise in how easy people are to manipulate. Your all foaming at the mouth trying to decide which wrong side was the most wrong. Truth be damned, just so your Home Team is winning. For shame.

reply to post by ElijahWan


Um, I believe your the one who needs to go back and re-read the San Remo explanation in its entirety. One key point you neglected to acknowledge is your right about the manual not being law, and I never suggested that it was, but you did fail to mention that the manual must be accompanied by the explanation which is clearly defined as the conclusions drawn to establish laws which many countries have used to establish treaties:


As the San Remo Manual is the only comprehensive international instrument that has been drafted on the law of naval warfare since 1913, it is likely to have an important impact. It has already influenced the provisions relating to naval warfare in the German manual and it is quite likely that future manuals will also be so influenced. In this way the San Remo Manual should help consolidate contemporary international customary law, promote its coherent development and thereby provide a much firmer foundation for possible future treaty developments than could otherwise have been the case. The Manual and accompanying Explanation will also be very useful for dissemination purposes, which should in turn promote a better respect for the law.

Take note in the last sentence. That statement is used many times throughout the San Remo manual. Next time dont forget to read the info in its entirety....

You want make yourself look like a troll!

Originally posted by SurefireII
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

Um, I believe your the one who needs to go back and re-read the San Remo explanation in its entirety. One key point you neglected to acknowledge is your right about the manual not being law, and I never suggested that it was, but you did fail to mention that the manual must be accompanied by the explanation which is clearly defined as the conclusions drawn to establish laws which many countries have used to establish treaties:


As the San Remo Manual is the only comprehensive international instrument that has been drafted on the law of naval warfare since 1913, it is likely to have an important impact. It has already influenced the provisions relating to naval warfare in the German manual and it is quite likely that future manuals will also be so influenced. In this way the San Remo Manual should help consolidate contemporary international customary law, promote its coherent development and thereby provide a much firmer foundation for possible future treaty developments than could otherwise have been the case. The Manual and accompanying Explanation will also be very useful for dissemination purposes, which should in turn promote a better respect for the law.

Take note in the last sentence. That statement is used many times throughout the San Remo manual. Next time dont forget to read the info in its entirety....

You want make yourself look like a troll!

Your tactics are painfully transparent. Just a few posts ago you were pasting your cherry-picked passages of the San Remo Manual, clearly trying to portray it as identical to International Law. When it was pointed out that it clearly was not, and even if it were it would incriminate Israel for having an illegal blockade, instead of conceding the point you make an irrelevant tangent.

The point remains. The San Remo manual is not binding. And even if it were, Israel is still in breach of International Law. Showing videos of passengers wielding deck chairs and whatever random objects are strewn about, and photos of kitchen knives, is only evidence that Israel couldn't find any real evidence to back up the wild stories they feed to people gullible enough to swallow it.

Originally posted by brainwrek

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by brainwrek

 

And if they hadn't boarded the vessel and the vessel was loaded with explosives and detonated in an Israeli port, what would you say then?

We can arugue hypotheticals all day long. Stick to the facts.

I am sticking to the facts. Israel commits yet another case of murder then portrays itself as the victim as usual.

Alrighty, then. I've read "murder! murder! murder!" all through this thread, and I've heard enough. Cite applicable laws that define this as "murder" please, or restructure your words accordingly.

Long on emotion, short on facts.

reply to post by Kryties


INTERNATIONAL WATERS?!?!? ZOMG!

That means nothing.

Unless they tried to phone the International Police.

I swear.. Liberals and their notion of International Law .. praying to their One World Government before it even exist. Though .. you will probably get your wish soon enough.

They entered a demilitarized zone ........... They knew exactly what was coming. They did it on purpose.

Originally posted by Gliese581
Israelis shot to kill. The American-Turkish 19 years old guy is shot by 4 wounds in the forehead. [edit on 4-6-2010 by Gliese581]

So what if someone was killed? The guy probably shot himself on the back of his head to make Israel look bad. These goys can do anything to make Israel look bad. We can do no wrong, the God chose us.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Jehovah_Yahweh]

reply to post by Libertygal

I believe that Israel has the right to use equal or greater force.

In the interest of fairness i would think this right applies to the people of Palestine. Unless you belive israel has MORE right to life. Reminds me of George Orwel's Animal Farm "All animals are created equal....some are MORE equal than others"

The only difference is one is Sunni and the other is Shiite.

Wrong.Ga
Hamas is the legitimately elected representative of the people of GAZA..
Hezbollah is a political and paramilitary organisation based in LEBANON.

BIG difference.

Now on the subject of scud's.
If you think it would be possible to conceal a scud and it's associated launch vehicle in Gaza, an area 41 kilometers (25 mi) long, and between 6 and 12 kilometers (4–7.5 mi) wide and NOT be noticed by israel you are either very naive in regards to israeli surveillance/intelligence capability...or you are not familiar with the weopon system.

That brings me to my next point.WHY would Iran/syria even bother to send scuds to Lebanon, much less to Gaza as you claimed in your previous post.

Scud-A vintage 1957 Range 180Km (108 mi)
Scud-B vintage 1964 Range 300Km (180 mi)
Scud-C vintage 1965 Range 550Km (330 mi)
Scud-A vintage 1989 Range 300Km (180 mi)

Distance to Jerusalem from Damascus 215Km (129mi)
Distance to Jerusalem from well within Syrian side of the border east of the golan hights 135Km (81mi)

As you can see, even an ageing scud-A ia able to target Jerusalem from Syria.
IMHO The notion of Iran/Syria sending scuds to Lebanon or Gaza is complete BS.

Netanyahu: Iran's shipment of arms to Hezbollah - a war crime

The same could be said for the US shipment of arms to israel,and you can post as many link's to Zionest propaganda "news" outlets as you like.I could post just as many links to jihad propaganda but then we will just go round and round till the cow's come home...lol

how bout this for some impartial reading Link

Mass unemployment, extreme poverty and food price rises caused by shortages have left four in five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid. As a form of collective punishment, Israel’s continuing blockade of Gaza is a flagrant violation of international law.

Much respect
MACK

The so-called missiles fired into Israel are glorified fireworks.
It has recently been reported that more Israelis have died from Bee stings than these mini rockets fired from Gaza.
They are an act of defiance from the one big Isreali controlled by violence, concentration camp known as Gaza.
Interestingly they are not always fired by Gazans, when it suits Israel they miraculously get fired by someone else other than the Gazan folk.
Hard to guess who that may be.
This report says a lot.
New York Times.
Hardly Gazan Friendly, its from the NYT Jerusalem Bureau Chief, Ethan Bronner, whose son is a serving IDF member.
Some truth.

www.hybridstates.com...

Originally posted by pikypiky
I feel the whole incident was yet another `Anti-Israel` propaganda. Israel itself is practically surrounded by Arabs; so technically the IDF had the right to make sure there were no weapons and only `aid` on board. But I didn't approve of either side doing violence each other. If the flotilla was truly peaceful it wouldn't have gotten into that mess, even on international waters.

You sound like the person saying she'd wouldn't have gotten raped if she hadn't worn that dress.

Just listen to yourself. What did the flotilla have to wage war with? Wheelchairs!? Being under attack they fought back with only sticks fearing for their lives as their crewmembers lay dying. Compare that to a military helicopter with armed personnel with stun grenades and machine guns. Your logic is entirely flawed. I only wonder if you have a shred of humanity left in your soul.

I saw Amy Goodman yesterday on public access tv and her interview indicated that shots were fired onto the ship before the ship was even boarded:

www.democracynow.org...

You can hear Amy any time at DemocracyNow.org - often there are transcripts.

AMY GOODMAN:

Meanwhile, survivors of the assault have challenged Israeli military claims that soldiers acted in self-defense after rappelling onto the lead ship, the Mavi Marmara.

Some say Israeli troops opened fire before boarding the vessel.

Passengers on other ships in the flotilla say they were threatened at gunpoint.

Kevin Neish is a Canadian citizen who was aboard the Mavi Marmara. He’s with the Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid. He’s joining us on the phone from Istanbul.
Kevin Ovenden was aboard the Mavi Marmara, as well. He’s the coordinator with Viva Palestina. He joins us now on the phone from Istanbul.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! We’re going to begin with Kevin Ovenden.

Where were you on the ship? What time was it? And what happened?

KEVIN OVENDEN: It was 5:25 in the morning, there or thereabout. I was on the second level down on the starboard side of the ship. The assault began with percussion grenades, which were thrown onto the deck of the ship and onto be roof. Israeli soldiers were in commando units, were in militarized dinghies on either side of the ship and a helicopter above, from which they parasailed—sorry, abseiled down onto the roof of the ship.

AMY GOODMAN: And what happened next?

KEVIN OVENDEN: What happened was that there were the initial gunshots of what we presumed to be rubberized bullets. I hesitate to say rubber bullets, because they’re steel bullets with a rubber coating.

And then very, very rapidly afterwards—I’m talking a matter of some seconds afterwards—there was the unmistakable sound of live fire, and we started to take heavy casualties.

A colleague of mine, a New Zealander with Viva Palestina called Nicci Enchmarch, she was on the top deck. She was next to a man, a Turkish man, who was holding a camera. He was shot directly through the forehead. The bullet, the exit wound, blew away the back third of his skull, and she cradled him as he died.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Originally posted by mr. toddly
Also, it is already an established fact that the flotilla participants only took action against the IDF after two of their colleagues had been shot and killed before the IDF boarded the vessel, and while it was flying a white flag, indicating surrender.

This information is incorrect. Nobody was shot and killed from the helicopters before the IDF started descending. They fired plastic bullets and used a sound bomb to try and disperse the crowd on deck.

Source

Yes, the IDF walked up to them, looked them in the eyes and shot them in the head. Maybe they got more enjoyment and satisfaction from that.

Source

[edit on 5-6-2010 by thepixelpusher]

Israel should be given the Nobel peace prize.

Originally posted by EGO84
Israel should be given the Nobel peace prize.

Don't you mean that Israel should receive the "Piece Prize"? A "Piece" of Palestine, a "Piece" of USA money support, etc.

Hitler earned the "Piece Prize" too. He took from others without asking. Netanyaho, Hitler, who can tell the difference?

[edit on 5-6-2010 by thepixelpusher]

Gilad Atzmon
A British Jew , born in Israel and having served in the IDF.
He is so so correct.
For those of you in the thrall of outrageous Israeli propaganda I suggest you listen to this gentleman On RT.

I find it difficult to completely condemn Israel's useful 'idiots' because they have been so thoroughly conditioned by the Jewish controlled MSM continually poring out it vicious propaganda.
Those of us who have had the wit, intelligence and common sense to finally see through this stream of lies and distortions should have some pity for those who apparently have not the attributes to see what is happening.
My advice to the brainwashed - turn off your TV and get your news from the internet.
What Really Happened.
Information Clearing House.
Counterpuch.
Rense.
Antiwar.com.
And thats just a few.

redressnewsblog.blogspot.com...

Oh, I feel so much sorry for this poor little commando. Idiot. What do they think? Should we also feel sympathetic towards criminals who plead to a judge that they 'had no choice' other than to defend themselves against the police after having committed a criminal act? As soon as they set foot onto the ship, the committed a criminal act.

reply to post by OrionHunterX


Israel was out there in international waters.

They killed innocent people - something they are good at.

So bite the bullet, Israel.