Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by makeitso

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


So if you want to use the Accords as a vehicle for Israel to impose a blockade of Gaza,

It is not me using the accords, it is both sides.

The accords are in place until new agreements are reached.

Well once again Israel is not living up to the Accords and has violated them several times, so once again it truly does display a dual standard of using a legal instrument to aide you when it can, and then violating that same legal instrument when it prohobits you from unilaterally doing what you want.

That is a tactic when employed by one side, that makes the other side view them as not credibile or responsible.

Because Israel has failed on numerous occassions to abide by and uphold their obligations to the Oslo Accords, it's highly doubtful an International Body would would consider any of it's provisions enforcable at this point, or the agreement binding. Israel would in fact have to then bind itself to the agreement and make restitutions in areas that violated the agreement, for it to then also be considered an enforcable agreement on the Palestinians.

Once again the Law ceases becoming an instrument of justice when it is not applied and enforced evenly on all parties.

It really is very simple.

Thanks!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mhc_70

 

The best plans and intentions of mice and men often add up and turn out to naught.

The rhetoric in such political situations is just that rhetoric that is always aimed at one of two things or both. Shoring up your political base at home for the sake of a power base and control, or selling a bargaining position to other entities that is usually false.

Often times it is just rehtoric, but I would consider that to be a lesser threat than openly admitting they do not favor peace.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It really is very simple.

Yes your circular logic and fallacious comments are very simple indeed.

Yet, the legal documents are still in force and will be until new agreements are reached that supercede the Oslo Accords.

The blockade is legal.

reply to post by makeitso


Alright lets see who is really using the circular logic, if I agree the Oslo accords make the blockade legal, will you agree that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank built in violation of the accords are illegal?

Because surely they are if the Oslo Accords are being used as a standard for what is legal and illegal on both parties.

So here is the put up or shut up moment, are then the Israeli Settlements in the West Bank built after the accords were signed in Palestinian territory where new settlements are prohibited illegal?

Yes or no.

Are you prepared to apply the Oslo Accord evenly? yes or no?

If you are then the settlements are illegal, see how that works, and in that case if Israel has violated the accords, it too should be punished in some way, like say a blockade of Israel to make sure it gets no arms, to use to build more illegal settlements.

Are you ready to favor that the laws be applied evenly, yes or no?



[edit on 6/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by mhc_70

Often times it is just rehtoric, but I would consider that to be a lesser threat than openly admitting they do not favor peace.

Actually I don't believe there is a thing any politician on planet earth could say that I would not take with a grain of salt.

All politicians, everywhere are not to be trusted, and the majority of them lie and lie frequently, in order to mask and hide their true aims and agenda.

So in reality placing a lot of value on rhetoric is in fact inherently dangerous, as chances are the rhetoric is never going to be reflective of actual aims.

Actions are reflective though of what people are actually doing.

Israel is maintaining an illegal blockade which is an act of war, while stating Israel wants peace and is not an impedement to it.

This might help you better understand the true nature or this one point you are stuck on.

Should Israel have a right to exist, but what is in fact Israel. If Israel is to exist as the Zionist Manifesto that gave birth to it wants it to exist, that existence includes that absolute absorbtion of all of Palestine and the Middle East.

Now is Israel asking for permission to simply exist as it sees fit with that as a consequence of it's existence, the virtual elimination of the people it is demanding accept it's right to exist, or is Israel asking for the right to exist within pre-1967 borders, and an agreement not to attempt to enlarge itself through any means.

So just so you know, and you probably don't, part of the problem here is defining the word exist.

Does a serial killer have the right to exist? Is a much different question than does a school crossing guard have the right to exist.

One is going to exist to kill other people for gratuitious satisfaction and one is going to exist to usher school children across the street to make sure they don't get hit by cars.

Because Israel has in essence violated every accord and treaty that they have signed to constantly expand their borders, with no compensation what so ever to the original inhabitants, then the question of defining Israel itself becomes very important.

It becomes very problematic as well since Israel has never abided by the agreements that does define it's existence up to that point, and has continually sought to redefine the terms of its existence to broaden it and grow it and make it more powerful at the expense of others.

The very others that are being asked to agree to its right to exist, without it defining itself how it intends to exist, and having never defined its existence in ways it abides by.

So here is yet another example where actions become so much more important than words, because it is our actions that define us, not our words, and most of Israel's actions have defined it in very different ways than it's words.

More troubling still is the actual Zionist Manifesto used by the Zionist Terrorist Cells fighting against the British Mandate in Palestine that clearly outlined an ever expanding Israel that would eventually control all territory from the brooks of Egypt to the Mesopatamiam delta.

It is a very real document, that is in very real museums, and many of the members of the Zionist Terrorist Cells went on to be Prime Ministers of the ever expanding Israeli State.

So do keep in mind that in many ways Israel is asking people that they have been systematically robbing of their land and killing to acknowledge their right to exist, and to do that to them.

Then ask yourself honestly just how you would answer that question if you were the people suffering through those encroachments and dispossessions?

If Israel can display that it has stopped expanding and is willing to be a true partner to the Palestinians to help them achieve lasting borders and prosperity and autonomy then it can overcome its past actions that have never been equal to its past words.

It's words are absolutely meaningless as an entity, and it has no credibility as a result.

Only positive actions will establish credibility, an illegal blockade is not a positve action.




[edit on 6/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by makeitso

 

Alright lets see who is really using the circular logic, if I agree the Oslo accords make the blockade legal, will you agree that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank built in violation of the accords are illegal?

Because surely they are if the Oslo Accords are being used as a standard for what is legal and illegal on both parties.

So here is the put up or shut up moment, are then the Israeli Settlements in the West Bank built after the accords were signed in Palestinian territory where new settlements are prohobited illegal?

Yes or no.

Are you prepared to apply the Oslo Accord evenly? yes or no?

If you are then the settlements are illegal, see how that works, and in that case if Israel has violated the accords, it too should be punished in some way, like say a blockade of Israel to make sure it gets no arms, to use to build more illegal settlements.

Are you ready to favor that the laws be applied evenly, yes or no?

There you go again running in circles making yourself look silly instead of addressing the blockade or flotilla.

Lets see if I can play that game too.

Alright lets see who is really using the circular logic, if I agree the Oslo accords make the blockade legal, will you agree that the Palestine is in severe violation of the Oslo Accords itself through building illegal settlements throughout area C?

Because surely they are if the Oslo Accords are being used as a standard for what is legal and illegal on both parties.

So here is the put up or shut up moment, are then the Palestinian Settlements in Area C, built after the accords were signed in the U.S. where new settlements are prohobited illegal?

Yes or no.

Are you prepared to apply the Oslo Accord evenly? yes or no?

If you are then the settlements are illegal, see how that works, and in that case if Palestine has violated the accords, it too should be punished in some way, like say a blockade of Palestine to make sure it gets no arms, to use to build more illegal settlements.

Are you ready to favor that the laws be applied evenly, yes or no?


See how running in circles is silly? Especillay when one consistantly present a once sided story when everyone knows its two sided, which makes you look silly twice. Especially so since it really doesn't matter what you or I say or think since we are not the signatories to the Accords, nor are we U.N. officials.

As long as the Accords are in place they are the legal binding document, and since Israel and Palestine both signed them, no matter that one side or the other or both broke the agreement. Israel has the legal authority to perform a blockade and search everyone and everything that enters Gaza as stated in the Accord, despite you saying otherwise. So it it is until a new agreement is forged that will supercede the exiting one.

reply to post by makeitso


So in other words you can not admit that the settlements are illegal in plain unqualified terms based on the Oslo Accords.

It was a simple yes or no question that you failed to answer.

I will simply take your inability to answer the question the direct way it was put to you as a decision not to answer the question.

In reality the Oslo Accords are clearly unenforcable when the people arguing that they should serve Israel will not acknowledge Israel has violated them and does not abide by them.

When a law, accord or treaty is not adhered to it becomes desuetude (an outdated doctrine that causes statutes and similar legislation to become unenforceable by a habit of non-enforcement or lapse of time.) which is a Latin Legal Term that sets precedence in all such matters.

So then once again your own argument is rendered defeated by your own agruments that desire to selectively apply the law, which has caused that particular document to fall into desuetude, which is why the U.N. has stated the blockade of Gaza is illegal.

The Oslo accords are desuetude because Israel is not abiding them.

Very simple, the blockade of Gaza by Israel is illegal and an unlawful, undeclared act of war.






[edit on 6/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler[/url]

Ahh still playing silly word games eh? Ok, I'll continue also.


So in other words you can not admit that the Palestinian settlements are illegal in plain unqualified terms based on the Oslo Accords.

It was a simple yes or no question that you failed to answer.

I will simply take your inability to answer the question the direct way it was put to you as a decision not to answer the question.

In reality the Oslo Accords are clearly enforcable when the people arguing that they serve Palestine will not acknowledge Palestine has violated them and don't abide by them.

When a law, accord or treaty is signed it becomes enforceable until superceded by newer agreements.

So then once again your own argument is rendered defeated by your own agruments that desire to selectively apply the law, even though that particular document to be legally binding, which is why the U.N. has not stated the blockade of Gaza is illegal.

The Oslo accords are binding because both parties signed them.

Very simple, the blockade of Gaza by Israel is legal and an lawful, not anact of war.

reply to post by makeitso


You have been a member since 2004, there is no excuse for not using the quote function.

If you can not be bothered to take the time to properly frame your arguments please deisist from attempting to make one.

Properly framing arguments includes proper structure of your post by using the quotation function to illustrate what I have said and have not said.

Otherwise you are plagiarizing my own words by not properly sourcing them. a serious Terms of Service Violation.

Take a deep breath, relax, collect yourself, and present rational arguments please in uncluttered properly structured and sourced posts.

The Oslo Accords are not being honored by Israel, who is not holding up it's obligations to them, and there is no International Enforcement of the Accords otherwise the illegal housing would have been torn down and Israel punished for breaking the accords.

In fact all you are arguing for is the unilateral imposition of the accords when it favors Israel by Israel and no International imposition of the accords when it does not favor Israel.

Because Israel will not abide by the terms of the Accords they are unenforcable which is why the UN does not consider Israels blockade to be legal.

So once again laws have to be evenly and consistently applied to and by all parties or they cease being laws and become instruments not of justice but injustice and oppression.

Thanks.

[edit on 6/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by mhc_70

This blockade is nothing more than a defensive measure preventing weapons from entering Gaza, Nothing more nothing less, regardless of how you spin it.

They are blocking cement needed to rebuild and they are blocking paper needed for education and thats just scraching the surface.

Seems to me that it is you that is guilty of spinning it and why defend the legal system when Iserail has broken more UN resolutions than any other nation on earth even with america using it veto so many times.

Europes love afair with america is fast ending and it's well past time the zionist grip was broken not that i'm saying we don't have the same problom to some extent ourselves.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by makeitso

 

You have been a member since 1994,

Wrong, try again.

there is no excuse for not using the quote function.

Yes there is.

If you can not be bothered to take the time to properly frame your arguments please deisist from attempting to make one.

That cuts both ways.

Properly framing arguments includes proper structure of your post by using the quotation function to illustrate what I have said and have not said.

Otherwise you are plagerizing my own words by not properly sourcing them. a serious Terms of Service Violation.

Errors were made, others will be blamed.

Take a deep breath, relax, collect yourself, and present rational arguments please in uncluttered properly structured and sourced posts.

Looks like you enjoy telling people what to do and how to act. Very silly.

The Oslo Accords are not being honored by Israel, who is not holding up it's obligations to them, and there is no International Enforcement of the Accords otherwise the illegal housing would have been torn down and Israel punished for breaking the accords.

The Oslo Accords are not being honored by Palestine, who is not holding up it's obligations to them, and there is no International Enforcement of otherwise the Palestinian illegal housing would have been torn down and Palestine punished for breaking the accords.

In fact all you are arguing for is the unilateraly imposition of the accords when it favors Israel by Israel and no International imposition of the accords when it does not favor Israel.

In fact all you are arguing for is the unilateraly dissolution of the accords when it favors Palestine by Palestine and no International imposition of the accords when it does not favor Palestine.

Because Israel will not abide by the terms of the Accords they are unenforcable which is why the UN does not consider Israels blockade to be legal.

Because Palestine will not abide by the terms of the Accords, but they are still enforcable, which is why the UN does not denounce the blockade to be illegal.

So once again laws are still enforcable, and will continue to be until a new agreement supersedes the existing one.
Thanks.

reply to post by makeitso


Actually yes it is 2004 and I changed that properly to reflect it.

I am not denying both parties are not in violation of the accords.

The accords are unenforcable. By the way what part of Palestine is area C in?

You are attempting to claim Israel has not violated the accords by building illegal housing by failing to admit to those well documented violations.

Clearly the Oslo Accords have fallen into unenforcable status and are no longer valid legal binding documents based on serious violations of them and inadequate enforcement mechanisms.

So no they are not valid, which is why they aren't being enforced by a proper international governing body, and Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza has in fact been declared as such and condemned by the International body.

It's very simple.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You are attempting to claim Israel has not violated the accords by building illegal housing by failing to admit to those well documented violations.

You are attempting to claim Palestine has not violated the accords by building illegal housing by failing to admit to those well documented violations.

Clearly the Oslo Accords have fallen into unenforcable status and are no longer valid legal binding documents based on serious violations of them and inadequate enforcement mechanisms.

Clearly the Oslo Accords are still enforcable status and are valid legal binding documents since both parties signed them and no superceding agreement has been forged yet.

So no they are not valid, which is why they aren't being enforced by a proper international governing body, and Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza has in fact been declared as such and condemned by the International body.

It's very simple.

So they are valid, which is why they are being enforced by a proper international governing body, and Israel's legal blockade of Gaza has not in fact been declared as such by the International body.

Its very simple.



[edit on 6/6/10 by makeitso]

reply to post by makeitso


Actually no I have not said any of those things, except that the Accords are unenforcable which they are.

I even asked you to tell me where Area C was in Palestine so I could investigate your allegations that the Palestinians had violated the Accords and you failed to respond to that question as well.

You have also failed to admit to Israel's violation of the Accords in building housing settlements in the West Bank prohibited by the accords.

So no I am not claiming at all that the Palestinians have violated the accords too, but asking you to display something more tangible than they built housing in area C of Palestine, where is area C of Palestine.

When did this occur. Here in the United States we do know that Israeli violations of the accords are real, because the current administration is dealing with the controversy Israel building yet more settlements in violation of the accords is causing the U.S. in trying to help broker a peace deal.

The violations by Israel regarding the accord also date back to the early nineties and are numerous and no one has made any attempt to enforce the accord on the Israelis which is why it is unenforcable.

Israel has been violating the Oslo Accords since the early 1990's and while many resolutions have been passed in the U.N. Condemning that the U.S. has always used it's veto to thwart enforcement or punishment. So yes, the Oslo accords are clearly unenforcable.

Yes Israel has clearly violated them.

No Israel has never been punished for violating them.

Both the violations and the lack of any punishment have all been documented.

Is there a reason why you did not provide more information regarding the alleged violation of the Palestinians in building in Palestine Area C? Where is area C, when did this occur?

Israel pm: Clash was planned

www.bostonherald.com...

Yes. By your government Mr. Netanyahoooo.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by makeitso

 

Actually no I have not said any of those things, except that the Accords are unenforcable which they are.

You have also failed to admit to Israel's violation of the Accords in building housing settlements in the West Bank prohibited by the accords.

The violations by Israel regarding the accord also date back to the early nineties and are numerous and no one has made any attempt to enforce the accord on the Israelis which is why it is unenforcable.

Israel has been violating the Oslo Accords since the early 1990's and while many resolutions have been passed in the U.N. Condemning that the U.S. has always used it's veto to thwart enforcement or punishment. So yes, the Oslo accords are clearly unenforcable.

Yes Israel has clearly violated them.

No Israel has never been punished for violating them.

Both the violations and the lack of any punishment have all been documented.

Actually no I have not said any of those things, except that the Accords are still legally binding, which they are.

You have also failed to admit to Palestines violation of the Accords in building prohibited housing settlements.

The violations by Palestine regarding the accord also date back to the early nineties and are numerous and no one has made any attempt to enforce the accord on the Palestinians but it is still legally binding.

Palestine has been violating the Oslo Accords since the early 1990's and while no resolutions have been passed in the U.N. Condemning that, yes, the Oslo accords are clearly still binding.

Yes Palestine has clearly violated them.

No Palestine has never been punished for violating them.

Both the violations and the lack of any punishment have all been documented.

[edit on 6/6/10 by makeitso]

By the way this is a sampling of the Israeli Violations of the Oslo Accords just between 1993 and 2000.

I. Settlements


Housing: 52.49% growth since 93. In September 1993 there were 32,750 family housing units in Israeli settlements on the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Between September 1993 and July 2000 construction was begun on 17,190 housing units, 2,830 of these were begun during the Barak administration [Central Bureau of Statistics].


Population: 52.96% rise 12/93 - 6/99; c. 72% projected rise 12/93 - 12/00. At the end of '93 there were 115,700 Israeli settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, in mid '99 there were 176,973, a rise of 61,273 [Central Bureau of Statistics]. Based on an average annual growth rate of 7.92% between '92-'98, Peace Now projects that the number of settlers will reach c. 199,000 at the end of 2000, a rise of c. 84,000 compared to numbers at the end of '93.


New Settlements: Since Oslo, three new settlements were officially established by Israel: Lapid, Kiryat Sefer and Menora, at the end of 1998 these had a combined population of 12,212. In addition, between 1996 and 1999 the settlers established over 42 unofficial settlements, less than ten of these were subsequently dismantled. [Central Bureau of Statistics and Peace Now Settlement Watch reports]. There are 145 official settlements on the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but about 200 independent localities.


New Roads: Between 1994 and 1997, paving was begun on 139.6km of Israeli by-pass roads in the West Bank and Gaza. During the same period, road paving was completed on 159.2km [Central Bureau of Statistics]


II. Human Rights Violations


House Demolitions: Between the end of 1994 and November 2000, 740 Palestinian houses were demolished by the IDF in the West Bank and Gaza Strip (not including those demolished in East Jerusalem) [B’tselem].


Days of Closure: Between 12/1993 and 11/2000, there were 326 days of full closure in the West Bank and 311 days in the Gaza Strip [Official Israeli Sources through B’tselem].

These are all from Israeli Sources and so is this following comentary.

There were clearly violations of the Oslo Accords on both sides, but looking at the expansion of the settlements and the deepening of Israeli presence since the signing of Oslo, it is not difficult to understand the present crisis. Many Palestinians came to doubt Israel's intention of ever leaving the territories or making genuine peace.


The only contact most Palestinians have with Israel is with the settlements or with the IDF forces guarding them. Palestinians perceive construction in the settlements as a unilateral action, perpetrated by force. The following data demonstrates that since the Oslo agreements were signed the daily message the average Palestinian received was one of force, not peace. This helps explain the grassroots frustration that is fueling the current crisis. It also explains the wide gap between how Israelis and Palestinians perceive today’s situation. Most Israelis were and are fundamentally unaware of the situation on the ground in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. For them, 1993-2000 were years of peace and the current violence strengthens the right-wing claim that the Palestinians do not really want peace.


It is time for our government to demonstrate concretely that it seeks peace, by freezing the expansion of settlements and declaring readiness to negotiate a return to the 1967 border with minor territorial exchanges.

So as this demonstrates even Israelis inside of Israel see the Government's policies as an impedement and roadblock to peace.

Universtity of Chicago

So anyone suggesting Israel has not flagrantly violated the accords is either being disengenous or is not very knowledgable on the subject.

The Oslo Accords are not enforcable, otherwise Israel would not be continueing to violate them 10 years after these numerous violations.

reply to post by makeitso


Still waiting for you to provide information on those violations.

Saying it does not make it so, makeitso.

However if you are saying that these alleged violations have not been punished either, then clearly the Oslo Accords are unenforcable as I have already stated, and is an out dated doctrine that is no longer legally enforcable in any way.

Which is why the UN is not recognizing the Oslo Accord as being a valid agreement empowering Israel to carry out an illegal blockade by using a legal instrument it has never abided by.

By the way this is a sampling of the Palestinian Violations of the Oslo Accords .

MAJOR PLO VIOLATIONS OF THE OSLO ACCORDS

The following list delineates 10 of the most egregious PLO violations of the Oslo Accords. The list is neither comprehensive nor exhaustive; rather, its focus is on infractions Israel deems most serious.

1. Failure to Change the PLO Covenant The PLO was obligated to amend the clauses in the Palestinian National Covenant which called for the destruction of Israel no later than 7 May 1996 (Article XXXII (9)). On 24 April 1996, the PLO's Palestinian National Covenant (PNC) met and approved such an amendment in principle, yet "the vote did not actually change the Covenant, but gave authority to a PNC legal committee to do so or to draw up a completely new charter within six months." (Jerusalem Post, 25 April 1996) Six months have passed, and no such changes have been made, nor has the PLO specified which particular articles will be changed or when the changes will go into effect. By leaving the Covenant intact, the PLO sends a clear message that it has not renounced violence nor accepted Israel's right to exist.

2. Incitement to Violence Against Israel The Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership is obligated to refrain from incitement to violence, as part of their commitment to foster mutual understanding and to combat terrorism

(Article XXII). Nonetheless, PA Chairman Yasser Arafat has repeatedly called for jihad (holy war) against Israel, praised prominent terrorists such as Yihya Ayyash "the Engineer" and encouraged acts of violence against Israelis. On 21 October 1996, Arafat met with a delegation of Hebron Arab notables and, in response to their complaints about the presence of Jewish settlers in the city, he rebuked them, saying, "What? Have you run out of stones in Hebron?" (Voice of Israel, 22 October 1996) Previously, on 6 October 1996, Arafat called Israel a "demon" and urged Arabs to use "all means" at their disposal to fight Israel. (New York Times, 7 August 1996) Speaking before Palestinian forces in Gaza on 24 September 1996, Arafat said, "They will fight for Allah, and they will kill and be killed... Palestine is our land and Jerusalem is our capital."

(Ma'ariv, 4 October 1996) Incitement by Arafat and other senior PA officials encourages violence and undermines attempts to foster peace and mutual understanding.

3. Opening Fire on Israeli Forces In September 1996, Palestinian policemen opened fire on Israeli soldiers and civilians during the disturbances in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, resulting in the deaths of 15 Israelis. The PA leadership actively instigated the rioting and took no steps to halt the armed attacks by PA police against Israeli forces. This was the most grievous violation of the Oslo Accords to date by the Palestinians. As Joel Singer, legal advisor to Prime Ministers Rabin and Peres and one of the chief architects of the Oslo Accords, put it, "The Palestinian policemen committed a very, very serious violation of the one of the basic principles in the agreement with Israel. Nothing can justify such behavior." (Near East Report, 21 October 1996) The Accords require that the Palestinian police act to prevent violence and cooperate with Israeli security forces (see, for example, Annex I, Article II). The conceptual foundation of the Oslo Accords is the rejection of violence and force as tools in the conduct of bilateral relations. By initiating violence against Israelis, the PA has violated a cornerstone of the agreement.

4. Failure to Confiscate Illegal Arms and Disarm and Disband Militias The PA is obligated to disarm and disband all militias operating in the autonomous areas and to confiscate all unlicensed weapons (Article XIV; and Annex I, Articles II(1) and XI). Nevertheless, five militias Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PFLP, the DFLP and Fatah continue to remain armed, and the PA has refused to disarm them. The PA has failed to undertake a systematic crackdown on illegal weapons, and has confiscated just a few hundred of the tens of thousands of weapons circulating in the autonomous areas. The PA's violation of these provisions of the accord have allowed terror groups to remain active and well-armed and to carry out deadly attacks against Israelis.

5. Failure to Extradite Suspected Terrorists to Israel The PA is required to turn over for trial all suspects whose extradition is requested by Israel (Annex IV, Article II (7)), yet they have not extradited any of the 19 terror suspects whom Israel has sought for crimes such as murder and attempted murder. By failing to turn over wanted suspects to Israel, the PA has allowed terrorists to go unpunished, thereby encouraging others to carry out attacks in the knowledge that they will not have to answer for their actions.

6. Opening PA Offices in Jerusalem The PA is required to locate all offices and ministries exclusively in areas under its jurisdiction

(Article I (7)). Nevertheless, the PA has violated this provision by maintaining governmental offices such as the Orient House in Jerusalem. The PA Ministry of Religious Affairs and the PA Office of the Mufti are both located in Jerusalem, and several other PA offices operate in other sections of the city. In addition, Palestinian policemen operate in Jerusalem in contravention of the agreements. They have been involved in activities such as kidnapping, torturing and killing human-rights activists, journalists and suspected collaborators with Israel and punishing perpetrators of "morals crimes."

7. Recruiting Terrorists to Serve in the Palestinian Police The PA is required to submit a list of all potential police recruits to Israel for approval (Annex I, Article IV (4)) to forestall the possibility that members of terrorist groups will join the PA security services. The PA has consistently failed to provide comprehensive listings of potential recruits to Israel and has proceeded to recruit policemen without Israeli consent. In several instances, the PA has even drafted wanted terrorists to serve in its security forces. Abd al-Majid Doudin, who helped plan the suicide bombing in Jerusalem on 21 August 1995, was convicted and sentenced by a PA court to 12 years imprisonment, but was subsequently freed and hired by the Palestinian police in Jericho. Similarly, Rajah and Amr Abu-Sita, who murdered Uri Megidish on 8 March 1993, and whose extradition was requested by Israel, were drafted to serve in the PA police in Gaza. (Yediot Ahronot, 22 June 1994) Such steps by the PA endanger the prospects for cooperation between Israeli and Palestinian security forces and pose a security threat by providing terrorists with access to weapons and intelligence information.

So this demonstrates the Palestinian Government's policies as an impedement and roadblock to peace.

So anyone suggesting Palestine has not flagrantly violated the accords is either being disengenous or is not very knowledgable on the subject.

The Oslo Accords however, are still legally binding and in effect to this day, until both parties come to a new agreement that supercedes the current one.


[edit on 6/6/10 by makeitso]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by makeitso

 

However if you are saying that these alleged violations have not been punished either, then clearly the Oslo Accords are unenforcable as I have already stated, and is an out dated doctrine that is no longer legally enforcable in any way.

Which is why the UN is not recognizing the Oslo Accord as being a valid agreement empowering Israel to carry out an illegal blockade by using a legal instrument it has never abided by.

However saying that because these alleged violations have not been punished does not make the Oslo Accords defunct. As I have already stated, it is the legally binding agreement between both parties that is still in effect.

Which is why the UN recognized the Oslo Accord as being a valid agreement empowering Israel to carry out an legal blockade by using a legal instrument that both parties signed.



[edit on 6/6/10 by makeitso]