New Arizona law against illegals : no automatic citizenship for children born of illegals

Finally, cutting the chain on anchor babies. This happened too late though, I think.

While I agree with the proposal, and I wish the Federal Government would do it as well...

I'd say it's blatantly unconstitutional.

A state CANNOT mandate citizenship for the entire Union, only the Federal Government can.

Originally posted by The Theorist
You know, I must say ... I LOVE ARIZONA! They got elected official's who are actually doing their job. And so many states are following their lead. I agree that children born to illegal immigrants shouldn't be given automatic citizenship.

Where do I send flowers? I want to give the Arizona governess some! This is AWESOME.

it is SO nice to see elected officials *working for the people!!!* as i'm SURE this is what the MAJORITY of arizona *wants*

Originally posted by Grumble
Just a politician playing the game of "I am more bigoted than my rivals" to keep his base support.

14th Amendment, Section 1:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Of course this came after the Civil War in an attempt to protect former slaves and their children. Mexicans are, in essence, our slaves of the modern era.

Not even close. Civil war era slaves were forcibly taken from their home countries and forced into hard labor. Mexicans come here freely,too freely and no one forces them to do anything.They do it illegally even tho they could apply for work visas, or citizenship.

reply to post by rebtex

Edit: Also in Mexico whites are minorities. If it would be a much nicer place why do they come to the U.S.?

Actually in Mexico Whites are by far the majority.. they are of Hispanic decent (which means Spanish..... like the Country Spain) .. sometimes we forget that Spaniards are Caucasian lol.

The reason Native Americans from Mexico flood across the border is that Mexico is a deeply racist country, Whites first, Mestizo's second, Indians last. For the most part though, Mexico is about 75% Caucasian. Even if they are not pasty English white.

reply to post by double_frick


According to recent polls conducted by some of the mainstream media, this is EXACTLY what the majority of people want. The only people who are complaining about it are the pro-immigration groups.

Kick the illegals out. Make the country as anti-illegal as possible. Arizona is just doing what they are LEGALLY ALLOWED to do. I personally fully support this.

Personally, we should lock the US/Mexico border DOWN. I believe we need a new border fence, to. Something electrified. Think Jurassic Park. 100,000+ volts. Also, we should consider all illegals in the country DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. They come into our country, drive our wages down, take jobs from Americans because they'll work for almost nothing. I could go further with this.

[edit on 28-5-2010 by The Theorist]

ohioriver said:
Not even close. Civil war era slaves were forcibly taken from their home countries and forced into hard labor. Mexicans come here freely,too freely and no one forces them to do anything.They do it illegally even tho they could apply for work visas, or citizenship.

If they applied for citizenship they would have to pay taxes. Why would you pay taxes when you don't have to?

[edit on 28-5-2010 by rebtex]

reply to post by TheAssociate


These are all reactionary laws that don't fix the issue.

They merely criminalize the victims and with the high authoritarian nature of the language of the bills allows for the victimization of the unaffected (i.e., US citizens [even those that were born here]).

Arizona's HB 2281 (the "ethnic studies" ban) is worded in such away that it seems to only allow for the state sanctioned narrative (i.e., "American History" is not going to be considered "white" history, even though that's what it is).

By the way, the language in HB 2281 includes permission for corporal punishment at school...a nice hallmark of a police state.

And now, the Department of Education in Arizona is enforcing the "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accent rule against teachers, which is not pedagogically sound.

Second Language Acquisition is my background. I've taught foreign language for nearly six years now and I'm almost done with a certification for ESL. I will tell you right now that the accent of a teacher (unless their speech is completely incomprehensible) has nothing to do with learning to speak any language properly.

Plus, supreme court case Lau v. Nichols ruled that it is unconstitutional to do what they want to do in Arizona.

Stopping those born here from being citizens implies a racial superiority (not necessarily racism, mind you). It implies that there is some cohesive national identity based on race. Like in Japan, where such a rule exists.

In the end, all of these rules tell me that we are at the period in American history where we cease to be the mythological "nation of immigrants" and start to become homogenized.

I find the laws distasteful, but in the back of mind I realize that immigration is a sign of a social ill. If we have immigration (legal or illegal) it is a sign that something is wrong where these people are coming from. The difference (on a historical level) these days is that the US itself is to blame for much of the reasons that they come here in the first place. Of course, most US citizens and the immigrants that come here are totally unaware of that.

The ones that are, well, they're the terrorists.

Move the Mexican border around Arizona at night time!! That would be great if everyone woke up the next morning and realized they were in Mexico. Then, all thos American children born in Arizona would be Mexicans. hahahaha

reply to post by Rockpuck


I disagree. What's your source on that?

While Mexico was colonized by the Spanish, who certainly are Caucasian by definition, the ethnic diversity of the nation at the onset was such that the Caucasian overclass subdued and created artificial ethnic stata among the native populations based on arbitrary European notions of development. In many cases, they pitted one native group against another for their gain (this was how Tenochtitlan and the Aztecs were taken). The end result was a mixed ethnic substratum with a mestizo mid-way class and a small, landed aristocracy of mostly European descent. They came up with several dozen racial terms to denote the various ethnic combinations. For example, a criollo was a native Mexican born man with Spanish parents. A coyote was a child with a Native mother and a Spanish father. etc...

Mexico had some African slavery and some historians and anthropologists have suggested a higher African ethnic stock than contemporarily claimed by history books, but this has not been genetically proven (I don't think).

At any rate, Mexico had a lot of immigration as well. Spanish Jews and Conversos (those who converted from Islam or Judaism to Catholicism during the Inquisition) in the early years of colony. Then, in the late 1800s through WWII, Mexico saw immigrants from Eastern Europe, France and Spain (again) after the Spanish Civil War. Nowadays there are many Asian immigrants, but not enough to change the majority ethnic mix.

In other words:

Not all Mexicans are European.
Many Mexicans have European ancestry in part.
Few Mexicans have European ancestry in whole.
Like our nation, those who hold power are mostly from the founding ethnic class or a prized (white) immigrant group.

These above points are true for most Latin American nations.

Examples: (a couple White families and) Light-skinned Haitians have ruled Haiti -- White and Mulatto Brazilians run Brazil

Why do you all think our nation has made such a ruckus at the election of Evo Morales in Bolivia, for example? Indigenous rights movements -- democracy (rule by the people) -- is bad for business.

reply to post by The Theorist



A few corrections

DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. They come into our country,

They wouldn't come into this country if they didn't have employers that would hire them.

drive our wages down,

Nope, employers do this.

take jobs from Americans because they'll work for almost nothing.

Nope, employers again. Employers decide the wage they will pay. Furthermore, these employers are usually the ones you and others, who complain about illegals, are supporting by continuing to buy their products.

You want some tomatoes with that

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Look, you said:

This law will get NOWHERE. And it shouldn't.

Can't have it both ways ...

Sphota

WOW! Where did you come from?

Very impressive posts. Truth and Reality - - what a combo.

Look I want the illegals gone as anyone else; but I have serious problems with Unconstitutional Laws.

The posters in this thread have presented TONS of alternative solutions that do NOT become Unconstitutional. These alternative routes must be explored before we toss our only Good Laws out...

And yes I am saying the Constitution is one of the only GOOD laws we actually have, and I am THANKFUL every day of my life to have the Constitution Protecting ME and my God given rights!

Fascism rears it's ugly head from every angle it seems these days...

Originally posted by Sphota
Stopping those born here from being citizens implies a racial superiority (not necessarily racism, mind you). It implies that there is some cohesive national identity based on race. Like in Japan, where such a rule exists.

How exactly does it imply racial superiority? It is indifferent to race.

Are you aware that well off foreigners often plan their vacations to the US in conjunction with their pregnancy due dates, just so their kids can have dual citizenship and can come to the US and take advantage of its benefits, or act as a gateway for their families to come?

reply to post by Wolf321

Are you aware that well off foreigners often plan their vacations to the US in conjunction with their pregnancy due dates, just so their kids can have dual citizenship and can come to the US and take advantage of its benefits, or act as a gateway for their families to come?

See, your quote shows exactly what i am trying to say. If you can see what they are doing, then how in the hell can't 435 well educated men and women see the same thing?

Why is it that they rather this issue be left to divide Americans rather than pass/enforce the proper legislation that is needed?

This is what irks me about the immigration issue. All the focus is on the illegals while the laws continue to remain the same.

When the federal government fails to secure our border properly what is a state or citizen supposed to do? This is the real question and IMHO there is only one answer ...

reply to post by Sphota


To define "Caucasian" is to compare DNA, particularly, Mitochondria DNA, which follows the Maternal line. In most cases however bone structure can be used to define the differences between Caucasian, Black, and Asian. Native Mexicans, from their various tribes, are Asian by genetic definition, they are the same race as North and South American Indians, as well as Chinese, Japanese etc.. same race, different elasticities. Being Caucasian it's self has nothing what so ever to do with skin tone -- for instance Spaniards are Caucasian, even thought hey are mixed with Berbers, which was another Caucasian concoction of various races. Also there is the recessive gene complex, if you mate a black and white person, the white genes being recessive, the child is more likely than not to hold onto more of its black characteristics, than a white Asian child would hold more of the white characteristics.

www.questconnect.org...

69% of Mexico is Ameri-euro or Euro decent, however the vast majority of those are racially classified as Caucasian. Ethnically and culturally different of course.

The persona I quoted said that whites are a minority, and that being run by minorities (indians) is why it is such a crap hole of a country. In reality whites, European, dominate the upper classes, while Caucasians ethnically defined as Mestizos dominate the middle class. Together making up 69% of the country.

EDIT: Other groups people don't realize are Caucasian: Iranians, Iraqi's, Palestinians, Semites, Gypsy (white mixed with Indian), Moroccan Berber. A lot of these people we call "Arab" even though they are not, and so on because they look different than what we typically see as white, German and English for instance. All the same race though.

[edit on 5/28/2010 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by jam321


Why is it that they rather this issue be left to divide Americans rather than pass/enforce the proper legislation that is needed?

Because we are being set up. Clearly.

There are a thousand benefits for the globalists to gain from creating this issue like this.

Since the globalists control our legislative mechanisms, they simply refuse to pass the correct simple laws necessary to avoid this.

Why? Rex84 camps are still empty. Martial law is not being enforced. No one will accept the North American Union yet...

They have a lot of motives to create this division, conflict and strife for.

It plays perfectly into the One World Government hypothesis. It really does.

And it makes me so mad that supposed "patriots" are too uneducated and too naive to realize what is really going on.

We are being played as mere pawns on a chess board. They don't even think highly enough for us to be a rook or a knight. It's quite disturbing really.

IMO Real Patriots would be pissed off that the Constitution is getting trampled here...

Originally posted by jam321
Why is it that they rather this issue be left to divide Americans rather than pass/enforce the proper legislation that is needed?

This is what irks me about the immigration issue. All the focus is on the illegals while the laws continue to remain the same.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. The illegals are the cause of the financial burden, crime issues and cultural clashes. There are quite obviously issue with the laws that should be addressed, both from a immigration as well as citizenship standpoint. The lawmakers however love conflict so they can pick a side and use it as a campaign platform.