New Arizona law against illegals : no automatic citizenship for children born of illegals

Originally posted by djvexd
Seeing how citizenship is applied and given by the federal gov't this is nothing more than grand-standing. I agree with the bill, but they must really think anger and desperation will override common sense.

It's worked well for Arizona so far...

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

The state has zero say in the matter of who becomes a U.S. citizen and when and it is ignorant and stupid to even attempt such a law. It also has no authority to violate the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

It's true that Federal law supercedes state law when there is a conflict.

But look at the example of medical marijuana use in California. It's against federal law, yet not against state law, and it happens every day. The Federal government can still come in and bust an operation which is legal according to state law, so it's really a screwy situation.

But it occurred to me, this wouldn't be the first time a state law and a federal law were in conflict with each other. And the Feds do make a few busts, but for the most part I see the state law prevailing, at least in the case of medical marijuana.

That might not be the case with immigration, but if the Feds sue Arizona, then Arizona could countersue the feds to get immigration laws enforced, in which case the whole legislation would be irrelevant anyway.

Its rediculous and misinformation, to say that, 'Arizona didn't ratify the 14th A'mendment' Arizona wasn't a state in 1868. Also Indians weren't included, were not even legal human beings until 1924. My father was not a human being until he was 23. So does that make me an illegal immigrant?

oops, wrong thread..

[edit on 30-5-2010 by Maslo]

reply to post by Vitchilo


wow, I am loving Arizona everyday!! Thank God they are at least doing something to stop the illegals getting in here, I say it's about damn time!!! My Mother must be proud living there right now!

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The strangest thing about all of this is that a state cannot deport a person. Only the feds can do that, and they won't. Hand over all the babies to Homeland Security and they will just let them go. They will be crawling all over the freeways so watch out for them.

I am in total agreement with the State of Arizona regarding this law.

I hope they succeed with it and are able to take care of the problem.

if they are illegal then toss them out of the country.

the word illegal has a very specific meaning. I'm tired of all these different sides trying to make excuses for idiots committing an illegal act by sneaking into some country and lying to try and get work.

If they are illegal then deport them, case closed no grey areas no need for discussion

Legal = stay
Illegal = deported

if they wish to become Legal like I did then great and welcome. But if they want to ignore the law and come in illegally then get rid of them. Good riddance.

Tired of people trying to make 100000 excuses for being illegal.

Illegals should be deported period!


If I can take the time to do the simple paperwork then so can they. If they want to be idiotic or ignorant then that's fine too they can get sent back to their country of origin.

Originally posted by Cito

if they wish to become Legal like I did then great and welcome.

Just curious - how did you become legal?

Did you have a sponsor?
Work Visa?
School Visa?
Professional trade?

What country did you come from?
Did you file papers in your country then wait for the proper papers and Visa to enter this country?
Were you required to have a job waiting?

Filed papers from Australia, took almost a year. My Mom did most the work was a little bit of a wait but everything was nice and legal.

There is no reason to come here illegally.

It's laziness, and ignorance mainly. ignorance in they do not want to READ the law, they don't want to understand how to do it. They see their dozens or so others sneaking in illegally to do from working cheap unskilled labor to drug dealing and more and they follow. So they follow thinking oh it's cool I should be here it's racist to think otherwise.

sorry but big b.s.

thousands enter this country every month legally. It's just uneducated ignorance that people are trying to spin to give illegals some ploy to stay. They should get booted out, then spend the time to do the paperwork and come over LEGALLY.

problem is they are not as stupid as many do make them out to be. cause if they did come over legally then they'd have to pay taxes, be responsible for a whole lot more than they would if they were illegal.

Originally posted by Cito
Filed papers from Australia, took almost a year. My Mom did most the work was a little bit of a wait but everything was nice and legal.

There is no reason to come here illegally.

It's laziness, and ignorance mainly. ignorance in they do not want to READ the law, they don't want to understand how to do it. They see their dozens or so others sneaking in illegally to do from working cheap unskilled labor to drug dealing and more and they follow. So they follow thinking oh it's cool I should be here it's racist to think otherwise.

sorry but big b.s.

thousands enter this country every month legally. It's just uneducated ignorance that people are trying to spin to give illegals some ploy to stay. They should get booted out, then spend the time to do the paperwork and come over LEGALLY.

problem is they are not as stupid as many do make them out to be. cause if they did come over legally then they'd have to pay taxes, be responsible for a whole lot more than they would if they were illegal.

Wrong the US only hands out a certain number of visas per year, per country. When they are out there is not way of getting in via that channel.

Got family here? Great that is another channel. Worked for you but not everybody has a direct family member needed for that way.

Got something special to offer the country. Special ability workwise or academically? Maybe a million dollars?

Agricultural worker? That's it that is the one that the majority of immigrants can apply for. Only prob is that these are limited as well.

USCIS Home Page

There are a lot of ways to get into the US legally but the truth is that most of the people entering illegally didn't really have much of a shot at being allowed in legally so they forego the paperwork and the almost certain "NO".

Why shouldn't they. The border has been porous for the last 50 years. All they have to do is reach the other side and they are almost certain to find someone who will give them a job. There are entire cities who are doing their best to not turn them over to ICE. They must be wanted in the US or it would not be so easy for them to get in.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by daskakik]

Originally posted by Cito
Filed papers from Australia, took almost a year. My Mom did most the work was a little bit of a wait but everything was nice and legal.

There is no reason to come here illegally.

You really have not answered the question.

Did you have a temporary Visa?
Did you have a secured job"
Are you a professional?
Did you have a relative or sponsor in the US?

Etc etc etc

Every time I ask this question - - not one person gives a complete answer.

WHY DID YOU COME HERE? OH - and those other questions above.

We came here cause we wanted to, Mom was divorced and had applied for us both that was when I was a teen many years ago. I worked for an internet company in Orlando, FL as network operations technician for several years.

My mother was a nurse, and continued as a nurse at a hospital in southern Georgia when we first came over, she is now disabled though.

There was nothing fancy to it, I just called my mother she said she wanted to bring us to the states. So she called and got the info needed and started the paperwork on immigration petition she said it took roughly a year to get everything squared away then we came over. When we arrived she showed the initial paperwork and from there we finished up. There is a nice photo of my mother when she became a citizen, I'm standing next to her and she's holding a little touristy american flag hehe.

I don't know what you looking for or if you just trolling, there's nothing to it when done right at least from my perspective. It took a while for all of the 'red tape' to sort itself out, as I said my mother said it took about a year for all the legal crap and paperwork.

She did have to do some tests and I'm a little foggy on the details I forget how long but some courses so she could go back into the nursing field since there was some difference I guess. I graduated highschool and did 2 years in college myself. I now live in Georgia.

There is a website people can go to if they wish to apply for citizenship in the United States, it gives all the information required and the process one must go through. www.uscis.gov... has the informaiton on immigration petition as well as tons of other ways to become a citizen.

I think ours was a lot longer, like I said roughly a year since it was a immigration petition instead of family based or whatnot. I think her status as a nurse may have helped as well.

Anyhow nothing to it really. She said it was fairly simple, the only thing was waiting and trying to plan job/trave/etc around waiting for the paperwork to finish and get response and all.

anyhow that's about it really. I finished highschool in the states, so I wasn't working at the time.


edit to add, regardless of people wanting to yell lies or whatever I just know I am happy to be a us citizen and thank my mother for wanting to come here. I swear this immigration issue is exactly like a freaking religious debate. people scream and scream and when a real immigrant comes in and explains it's not that hard it's like a bunch of atheists spitting in religious people's face saying they are lying.

look if you aren't an immigrant then enjoy and stop trying to dictate to immigrants that someone that hops a border has the same right as someone who did it legally. Cause they do not have any right what so ever being illegal. Only place they have any right is in the country they are a citizen of. For those that did immigrate legally, then kudos and I for one am proud to be a citizen.



[edit on 6/2/2010 by Cito]

reply to post by Cito


Nurse is a profession.

There is a shortage of qualified nurses in America. Most nurses are immigrants.

I know the Philippines has a program that works with the US to provide nursing.

Thank you for finally providing the truth of why and how you were able to immigrate.

Originally posted by Cito
...regardless of people wanting to yell lies or whatever I just know I am happy to be a us citizen and thank my mother for wanting to come here. I swear this immigration issue is exactly like a freaking religious debate. people scream and scream and when a real immigrant comes in and explains it's not that hard it's like a bunch of atheists spitting in religious people's face saying they are lying.

The thing is that not everyone has the same opportunity. Experiences vary. You say it was easy because it was easy for you. You were in high school at the time so you were a minor and your mom was a legal immigrant. The odds were in you favor. This is not the case for many.

I'm not saying that things are especially difficult but some people just don't have a chance to migrate legally so they opt to go illegally. That is not that hard to understand.

I have known a few people who did file the paperwork and were denied and ended up going illegally. Also know a couple of guys that had been in a bit of trouble with the law when younger and they knew they were not going to be given any type of visa. They went illegally as well.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by daskakik]

reply to post by daskakik


very true. i really get upset at immigrants that were fortunate enough to make it here legally. to me they seem to be jumping on the side of the anti-illegals so that way when shtf they can say proudly they came here legally and dont lump me in with those dirty mexicans lol ok maybe not to that extent, but that is kind of how i see it. listen anyone that has immigrated to this country has come here for a better life, excluding the slaves. this does not mean that we should let the illegals continue to pour over, i just cant stand the moral high ground some legal immigrants take, everyones situation is different, those without sin cast the first stone etc etc. its not just mexicans coming here illegally, there are other ways to be here illegally or in a shady fashion besides crossing the mexican border.
people of all nationalities over stay their visas or "marry" citizens to gain citizenship. people along the border see mostly mexicans coming illegally so the brunt of their anger is directed towards them. i live just outside of chicago and i see plenty of irish, polish and bulgarians overstaying their visas etc etc...ok end of rant lol

[edit on 2-6-2010 by conspiracy nut]

Some of you seem to be asking (repeatedly) why certain groups of people (defined by skin color, national origin, language, or whatever) are being singled out while making accusations of racism and bigotry.

Hey, that's exactly what I want to know! In a country where everyone is supposed to be "equal," why are these certain people from certain places being singled out, catered to, and given special treatment?

All of us other immigrants never once got "Press 2 for [insert your first language here]. We never got to fill out our tax forms or take our driving tests in our native language. No shopkeepers or government representatives or employment counselors ever bothered to learn OUR language. We were expected to learn English, and pronto!

Some of us might have formed groups or communities and retained some of our foods and culture, but we still had to become Americans. We had to learn to look, dress, act, and speak like Americans. We had to be able to read and write English to get jobs, go to school, rent places to live, buy cars, etc. etc.

So .. I still want to know .. why are these people being singled out for special treatment and privileges that I (and hundreds of thousands of other legal immigrants) never got?

If you want to come live in the United States of AMERICA and become an AMERICAN, more power! Try for it and I hope you succeed like I did. If you want to come here and take advantage of everything America has to offer while continuing to speak your own native language and wholly retaining your own national identity and culture distinct and separate from the rest of America... Well, hey, pal, sorry but it doesn't work like that. Go home and don't come back unless you're willing to become an American!

I've been part of the American workforce for 36 years and spent close to 7 of those years serving in the U.S. military. I've never once received welfare, food stamps, or any public aid. I'm a homeowner, taxpayer, and a naturalized citizen, and I speak, read, and write English better than a lot of native born US citizens.

Do I think I'm superior to other immigrants? Am I afraid of people who don't speak English? Nope. I just think that, in a country which prides itself on equality, justice, and fairness, no particular group of people should get special treatment and not have to do the things that I had to do to become an American.

On another note, I noticed the wording of the 14th amendment said "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

I'm wondering if that word RESIDE, which as a noun becomes residence or residency, might not be key? It takes 6 months or a year to establish residency in most states. Entering a state (or the States?) a few weeks before having your child should not establish residency, and if you are not a RESIDENT then your child should not automatically be a citizen of the state or country you happen to be temporarily located in when it's born. In my opinion you should have to be an established permanent resident before that law applies.....

Originally posted by hhott
If you want to come live in the United States of AMERICA and become an AMERICAN, more power! Try for it and I hope you succeed like I did. If you want to come here and take advantage of everything America has to offer while continuing to speak your own native language and wholly retaining your own national identity and culture distinct and separate from the rest of America...

On another note, I noticed the wording of the 14th amendment said "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

I'm wondering if that word RESIDE, which as a noun becomes residence or residency, might not be key? It takes 6 months or a year to establish residency in most states. Entering a state (or the States?) a few weeks before having your child should not establish residency, and if you are not a RESIDENT then your child should not automatically be a citizen of the state or country you happen to be temporarily located in when it's born. In my opinion you should have to be an established permanent resident before that law applies.....

First off there are many legal immigrants that only get temporary visas (agricultural worker visas) that are not allowed to stay in the US for good. They are not looking to be US citizens they are just a labor force that goes home at the end of the season.

Then there are many illegal aliens who think, and I have heard this plan many times, that they are going to work hard in the US for 1 year and with the money they earn they will return to their country and build or fix up their house, buy a car and set up some kind of business. Not realistic but that is their plan. They also are not interested in becoming US citizens.

As to the residency question I am almost sure that most women don't get pregnant in their home country and cross the border illegally after the first trimester. I know that some may do so but these would be legal immigrants who get to fly into the country and they would be from all over the world. The laws work in their favor so their is nothing illegal about it.

Most illegal women have probably been in the US over six months before becoming pregnant but even if that is not the case how can the state know for sure.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
The 14th amendment was passed, not passed with the thought that a foriegn national to come and give birth here, giving their child automatic citizenship, but was to allow for those who were born of former slaves to be citizens of the United States of America. That is all it was suppose to do, and to prevent the deportation of citizens to other countries, or the denial of rights to those who were of African descent.
For far too long this has been exploited and abused by foriegn nationals to get into the country and it is time that this loophole be closed. If they want to be citizens, come through the front door, like all of the other legal immigrants, not sneak in and break the laws.

Right on the money!

When the laws no longer serve the interests of US citizens, they must be amended or nullified. And this is clearly the case in the immigration issue.

Illegal immigrants who give birth in this country report to their local Social Security office the very next day and claim benefits. If you don't believe me, try to visit one yourself. This insanity needs to be stopped.