Another prediction come true

To see the absolute contradiction of the Bible as a holy book from the hand of a Creator, look no further than Genesis, Chapter 1.

There is no mention of the first woman born of equality alongside Adam, namely Lilith. She was supposedly cut from the same dirt and became his equal. Well, the men of the time that wrote the first books of the bible didnt like having a woman as an equal. So, in steps Eve, a pure and devoted subjugated woman, born of man. Inferior and servile, just like they liked them.

Oh, you have a problem with that part I see. Lets skip ahead then.

The 10 Commandments handed down by God. Or was it?
I think the Dead Sea Scrolls make mention of over 100 Commandments handed down. But, they were thought to be archaic and no longer valid in these more modern of times. So, man decided to sort through them and just pick the best of them that would stand the test of time, without holding on to hokie and trivial things like blood sacrifice and such.

I have said time and again, the Bible ranks right up there with Aesops Fables, a fair read about a good way to live, with some vengence and ire tossed in for dramatic and caustic effect.

Whether or not Christ was real, to call yourself Christians, after all the bloodshed spilled in their name, is not Christ like at all and a disservice to his name, for he would of told you, like he told his fellow Jews, to not label yourselves as followers but rather look within through prayer (meditation) to accept God, not read a Book and blindly follow it. My next post will explain how the Roman church and the Hellenists, distorted his teachings and HID what the true message of what God and Heaven is, and where this knowledge originally came from.

From the book of Matthew:

23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.


In the words of a Chief from the islands of Hispaniola during the Spanish Conquistadores:

As he, like many of his fellow villagers, was tied to a stake set to be burned alive, he was asked if he'd like to say any last words. He replied, "why give us this right?" And a Conquistadore said "so you all may repent and go to Heaven" He replied "then we will sit in silence, as we would rather go to Hell than go to what you Christians claim is Heaven."

reply to post by Doc Velocity

even most self-professed Christians will be duped.

hmmm.. it says .. "if it were possible, even the very Elect"..

MT24:24-For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible

source

just a little assist ....

reply to post by faceoff85


Hmm your reply isnt so weak however that being said it supposes that god chooses or exercises a free will of his own in deciding to know things. Kinda like looking into a crystal ball to see whats going to happen. Ok that being said again it doesnt account for how it is he CAN know what is going to happen unless it has already happened and there by we have no free will to determine our own fate. I dont know if you follow me here on this but just because god can turn on and off the ability to know the future doesnt stop the argument. How is it that there is a predetermined future without undermining my free will? Just remove god from the equation for a second and this becomes an argument of free will vs destiny or fate. The fact that there is a creator who supposedly set this law of the universeinto motion concerns me because it is dualistic in nature. It fights against itself.
quantum physics states in the uncertainty principle that the more you try to fix a particles position the less you can know its velocity and the more you try to fix its velocity the less you can knows its position. There is a definet uncertainty to things in a quantum universe. There cannot be both a predetermined future and at the same time exist the uncertainty of free will to determine as you go.
So i like you rebuttle about god being able to use his power as he so chooses but it doesnt answer the question as to his nature of being all knowing and yet him allowing us free will. Free will itself undermines his ability to fix our position and yet know our velocity so to speak lol. Ok that was weak lol.

Oh and btw i thought the whole concept of omniscience is that he doesnt choose to turn it off and on its just something he is.

Also why if jesus gives forgiveness and redemtion on the cross why then would he not give it at any time to everyone everywhere even at the end of days? This seems very contradictory to the nature of christ and forgiveness in general. No bible verse to back it up from my end since i am arguing against the basic idea your putting forth. Jesus is not a contradiction in terms. He either is something or isnt. He was more than clear about his positions regarding mankind and the nature of man and how we should be towards each other and the kingdom of god. Yes he was cryptic and spoke in parables and i think that was because of what has been pointed out here before about those having eyes to see and ears to hear etc etc. Basically those with the wisdom to listen will understand. You can talk to people but you cannot make them listen and understand. this also why he said to shake the dust from your feet in my opinion. If they wotn listen then dont waste your time on them. They have already made up their minds. However for argument sake i do think that he would offer forgiveness to anyone who truly came around at even the end of the wordl ad said i believe and i love you. I think it matters not if it be one mans end or all mans. If a person has faith even at the last hour of life they will be redeemed.
ok and all that from someone who takes the side of the atheist in the argument lol.

Ok i am off for the night. be back tomorrow to conitnue this awesome discussion that i hated when i came to this thread. Later everyone

Originally posted by fizzy1
i partly agree with you on the faith without works is dead point of your comment because truth is that having faith is not enough. You must exercise it or else it will die.

Okay, at this point I know that you're on crack.

A lot of Catholics and Lutherans squabble over Faith Without Works. CAN a person enter Heaven on FAITH alone, without all the good works, the children charities, the Mother Teresa missions to every corner of the world and et cetera?

The answer is Abbalutely... It's a no-brainer.

See, I have Faith. And Faith is NOT some kind of lithium-ion battery that you have to charge up on a regular schedule. Faith is a circuit... In the human brain... A one-way circuit of thought that entertains no possibility of error, nor possibility of doubt.

It's important to speak in metaphor on this subject, because it spans both the natural and supernatural worlds.

I see my Faith as a physical circuit in the brain — once activated, it cannot be diminished or shut down. It does not entertain doubt, it commands authority, and it makes its presence known.

In the cosmic sense, Faith is a real force that can be manipulated to extraordinary ends. No doubt. There is no question among the top scientists in the world that something intervenes in certain terminal patients, something powerful and healing, reversing the progression of the illness and eliminating it altogether. leading to the abundant "miracle recovery" legends you hear around the Texas Medical Center.

Take a stroll through the TMC and ask anyone to confirm a miracle recovery... I guarantee you'll get a hit immediately, and chances are you're talking to a physician, a man of science.


This thing exists. I know.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 5/26/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by wheresthetruth


You MUST be a woman. and a LIBERATED one at that... nothing wrong with that... havent heard of this lilith before though....

about the 10 commandments... its a tiresome job to lay it all out but when Jesus died for us the old Judaic Law got replaced/ incorporated into a new law... with its greatest commandment being matthew 22:36, 37
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a]

Read John 8:1-11 for a prime example of Jesus view on the OLD mozaic law
romans 3:21-29 is another example on the right view of this.
galatians 3:13.. another one...

and the final one: romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

reply to post by wheresthetruth

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
To see the absolute contradiction of the Bible as a holy book from the hand of a Creator, look no further than Genesis, Chapter 1.

There is no mention of the first woman born of equality alongside Adam, namely Lilith. She was supposedly cut from the same dirt and became his equal. Well, the men of the time that wrote the first books of the bible didnt like having a woman as an equal. So, in steps Eve, a pure and devoted subjugated woman, born of man. Inferior and servile, just like they liked them.

Oh, you have a problem with that part I see. Lets skip ahead then.

The 10 Commandments handed down by God. Or was it?
I think the Dead Sea Scrolls make mention of over 100 Commandments handed down. But, they were thought to be archaic and no longer valid in these more modern of times. So, man decided to sort through them and just pick the best of them that would stand the test of time, without holding on to hokie and trivial things like blood sacrifice and such.

I have said time and again, the Bible ranks right up there with Aesops Fables, a fair read about a good way to live, with some vengence and ire tossed in for dramatic and caustic effect.

You've said a lot there. What are the sources of your beliefs?

Thanks






[edit on 26-5-2010 by FearNoEvil]

reply to post by fizzy1

Oh and btw i thought the whole concept of omniscience is that he doesnt choose to turn it off and on its just something he is.

I had to laugh at this one poor choice of words or a multitude on thoughts maybe? sorry no pun intended.. but an omnipotent god surely has the ability to choose to do something like that...
for the rest of your comment, I'll keep it short (we can continue tomorow) you forget an important player... satan the devil is the one ochestrating things.. the only thing god is doing/ gonna do is put a stop to it at aa certian point.

good night...

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by wmd_2008
A list of god(s) MAN has created all over the world...

I have no doubt that all religions are inspired by the same God. Different cultures, different interpretations, different religion — BUT A COMMON ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that there IS a God.


— Doc Velocity

i will agree with that.

i am not a christian but logically conclude that there is a source of all that manifests. no one thing is fighting another element for supremacy, (with the possible exception of man ), all laws work in harmony with others. all is balance.

call it an energy or power or god or allah.

there is only the source. all else is imaginary. you can no more fall out of the source than fly to the moon. you may imagine that you are less than, or other than, the source for awhile, but you can never cease to exist.

tat tvam asi--------------that thou art!

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by fizzy1
i partly agree with you on the faith without works is dead point of your comment because truth is that having faith is not enough. You must exercise it or else it will die.

Okay, at this point I know that you're on crack.

A lot of Catholics and Lutherans squabble over Faith Without Works. CAN a person enter Heaven on FAITH alone, without all the good works, the children charities, the Mother Teresa missions to every corner of the world and et cetera?

The answer is Abbalutely... It's a no-brainer.

See, I have Faith. And Faith is NOT some kind of lithium-ion battery that you have to charge up on a regular schedule. Faith is a circuit... In the human brain... A one-way circuit of thought that entertains no possibility of error, nor possibility of doubt.

It's important to speak in metaphor on this subject, because it spans both the natural and supernatural worlds.

I see my Faith as a physical circuit in the brain — once activated, it cannot be diminished or shut down. It does not entertain doubt, it commands authority, and it makes its presence known.

In the cosmic sense, Faith is a real force that can be manipulated to extraordinary ends. No doubt. There is no question among the top scientists in the world that something intervenes in certain terminal patients, something powerful and healing, reversing the progression of the illness and eliminating it altogether. leading to the abundant "miracle recovery" legends you hear around the Texas Medical Center.

Take a stroll through the TMC and ask anyone to confirm a miracle recovery... I guarantee you'll get a hit immediately, and chances are you're talking to a physician, a man of science.


This thing exists. I know.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 5/26/2010 by Doc Velocity]

oh how wonderful i am being attacked and called a crack head by a god fearing all loving christian. WOOT! Now this is exactly why i dont follow you guys. You show nothing of the man you follow. I doubt jesus would call someone a crackhead because they didnt believe him. I think he ate dinner with them instead lol. Anyways my point was i agree that a faith without works is dead. I might have stated it incorrectly and not to your liking but then again(puff) i was taking a hit from my bong so excuse me for not getting it right. I dont care about different types of faith but i was agreeing with his comment that faiths without works is dead. What good does your wonderful awesome faith in skydaddy do you if all you do is act elitist and go arouynd judging everyone instea dof trying to be like the one whose name you fasion for yourself ( meaning christian). you are no anointed one nore are you guys better than the rest of us. You think you are so therefore you must be. I can break anyone of you down in a matter of minutes to being the very real very human failure you are and not this awesome christ like person you wish you were. Yep hold onto your fairy tale and hope it helps you sleep at night. I prefer being a humanist and even i know that i can do great works without having faith in zombie jesus or skydaddy. Alli need is faith in myself. And witt that i bid you all goodday.

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
I have said time and again, the Bible ranks right up there with Aesops Fables, a fair read about a good way to live, with some vengence and ire tossed in for dramatic and caustic effect.

And yet you haven't even read it. I can tell from your writing that you haven't read the Bible. You make a lot of common atheist assertions, you may even quote scripture — anybody can do that — but in the end, you haven't read the Bible.

Try reading it before you undermine it.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by conspiracy88
omg of course the freckin bible is gonna be correct. it was written by the very same people who are still controlling you now. it's their end game plan. just think about it... why the heck are there a ton of other ancient religions with the exact same stories? seems to me and a few other people who aren't clogged with bs religion like they ripped off a bunch of religions, wrote their "bible" and now you're seeing these things come true because it's the way it's always been planned. I won't be believing in the end, don't worry. I'll be feeling sorry for all you who are gonna be like, "omg! christianity is real! look at whats happening!"

The bible is a collection of 66 manuscripts written by 44 different authors.

Very detailed analysis has been conducted by scholars...
...who specialize in historical and textual criticism...
...they generally agree that while some of the manuscripts have uncertain origin...
...that most of the most frequently quoted/read manuscripts are legit.

So unless you want to argue with the experts, your assertions are in error.



[edit on 26/5/10 by troubleshooter]

reply to post by fizzy1


i totally agree with your remarks on freewill;-

which term i believe is an oxymoron.

i've enjoyed the varied input to this thread from everyone, but now i have to watch the last episode of "lost" in oz, bye for now.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by orangutang]

To me that seems very dangerous to put themselves at odds with the Author of life.

To me it seems rather foolish to believe a book verbatim when it has been subject to countless translations across very different languages, the strong possibility of manipulation for political reasons, and the outright censorship from not including other early Christian writings.

This isn't to say the bible should be ignored, but to place such high reverence in it is absolutely idiotic. Perhaps when the bible was first written it was the word of God (doubtful) but certainly now it isn't.

Isiah 28:22
Now therefore do not scoff, lest your bonds be made strong; for I have heard a decree of destruction from the Lord GOD of hosts against the whole land.
The Godless are violently opposed to having a boss .

... the bigger they are
..the harder they fall

Originally posted by fizzy1
oh how wonderful i am being attacked and called a crack head by a god fearing all loving christian. WOOT! .... I might have stated it incorrectly and not to your liking but then again(puff) i was taking a hit from my bong so excuse me for not getting it right.

Ah! Crack might be more mind-expanding, while that cannabis bowl you've got there might be the source of your problems. I mean, I've smoked good and great weed in my time, as well as lousy. In every instance of consumption, every instance, I felt not so much high as I felt clouded, but not omniscient... The imbibing of chemical smoke to elicit holy visions is a very ancient tradition, dating back to who knows when.

— Doc Velocity



[edit on 5/26/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I don't consider myself a Christian, and struggle with the label of Atheist. I've read the bible, and been grieved on some of the things I have read. When reading the gospels, however, I came away with a sense that the message of Jesus has been polluted by man since minutes after he shared that message.

If there is one thing that I came away with, it is that LOVE is the most important force in our lives, that if we keep love at the forefront we are are doing a good thing, is that not a "work"?.

Sadly, for a lot of "Christians" love is not the force most noticable in their lives, often it is..fear ( repent now..the end is nigh...hell awaits..ect. I find this very off putting and contrary to the message of Jesus.


Christianity's main enemy seems to be itself, That's too bad, because the main message of Christ is one which could make this world a better place.

I've enjoyed reading your posts though, you seem sincere and more "christ like" then the others who spew out only their quotes of the End is nigh signs, and repent now or go to hell...

Hi Doc,

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Tayesin
I don't understand the term "God-Haters"

No, you're not sure if you should be offended... It's a common reaction to the term.

Definition of God-Hater: One who fervently, methodically and studiously hates God, Jesus, the Bible, and can shred Bible verse on demand, but who ironically does not see his own dependence on God for his views.

As distinguished from an Atheist — One who lives perfectly comfortably WITHOUT God.

It was a genuine question, because I was unsure of how it was being used, as a specific to a group or as a generalisation meant to be offensive.

No offence was felt, thought or hidden on my behalf, just a basic question which you've answered for me. Although I'm wondering about the source for the definitions supplied.

So would you include the sources for those definitions please?

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Heh. I won't tell the story again of my radio days at Pacifica, but it was at Pacifica, on the American Atheist Hour, that I realized that I and everyone around me on the board were NOT atheists, but we were God-haters. Which is a religion. And when I pointed this out on the air, I was banned from American Atheist Hour. They've been churning out their various lame rebuttals ever since, heh, thirty-plus years later.

Which really pissed me off at first. But I worked through the whole long logic cycle of Life — no, logic is not brief and concise, it bends and blends and turns over the decades — and eventually I found peace and Truth.

— Doc Velocity

I can understand your realisation must have been quite powerful at that time, and more than likely it was discomforting to be in their presence.

Even a non-christian can Love those people for how they were, after all, they are only human beings lost in a Belief-System of their choosing. I find that brings up my sense of compassion for the people involved back then.

Yes, how we think, and perceive changes over extended time, which is a bonus considering most of us were a little naive in our youth and believing we would always think the same as we aged. I love getting older in that we still learn and grow each day if we remain open to information via experience.

I'm also glad to hear you have found peace and balance in your life amongst the chaos of our way of living. I may debate the truth part or it's basis but in essence much of what is spoken about in Belief-Systems is the very same thing using different words with different inflection.

As the Druids used to think, "All the Gods are One", which in essence is obviously true when we know this thing humans call God is everything.

They also used to think, "Truth Against the World". Which I agree is a deeper understanding few are able to perceive, although I have faith that you know what it means. It may be perceived through different "filters" but the essence is the same.

Last time I checked none of us are Christians or Catholics or monotheistic or Protestant or this or that. Denominations are uselessly dividing as is religion. We are all simply children of Christ and following Him. Sure we can call ourselves this and Christian might mean one who follows Christ or Christianity, but we are to love everyone the same no matter who they are: horrible sinner or terrorist or murderer. The can still receive salvation. Christ came to Earth as a man to show us how to treat others and tell us of His Father the Creator of all things. He came to warn man about the End Days that would happen in the future, and offered Himself up sinless as a ransom to save us. So when Satan tempted or possessed Judas to do what he did, he actually fell right into God's hands rather than succeeded. Then there is the argument that God is cruel. Most if not all of the races He had the Israelites exterminate were descended from the sons of the fallen angels such as the Nephilim and Rephaim and Anakim. Either that or they were idol worshipping child sacrificing evil people, but at the same time they were really mostly Nephilim descendants. Why do you think Atlantis sank and all the other cities that are now underwater were sunk. Could it have been this interaction of otherworldly angels and the things that ensued because they came down and defiled humanity with their forbidden knowledge and genetics? Think about that for a second and if you look in the Scriptures it's there. Read the Book of Enoch and about the Watchers, or the Books hidden from public view. There is more to life and the Scriptures than just the books bound in the Holy Bible we have today. There are far more books that we must also take into account. The world was vastly different back then perhaps ancient yet still technologically capable after the interaction of the fallen ones. The parables of Christ are very intriguing if you read them carefully. Oftentimes he uses them as a means to convey very solid points not just wise sayings. These are the last days there is no denying it. After all did not the fig tree regain its leaves in 1948? Are we not on the edge of ET disclosure and UFO knowledge finally being revealed more fully by our governments. Are we not on the brink of a one world goverenment and religion. The Anti-Christ Maitreya will be a world leader and world teacher, and Scripturally he will rule this one world with the help of something other than humans. Open your mind more than the box you've closed yourself in, because science if anything only supports this so called book everyone seems to hate so much.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by wmd_2008
A list of god(s) MAN has created all over the world...

I have no doubt that all religions are inspired by the same God. Different cultures, different interpretations, different religion — BUT A COMMON ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that there IS a God.


— Doc Velocity

No actually it was due to a lack of understanding about the world around them that caused the creation of gods.

Take for instance thunder in Northern Europe the Norse people had Thor the god of thunder they had NO idea what caused thunder so a thunder god was made up.

In ancient china people did not understand how a solar eclispe happened SO the sky dragon was eating the sun.

Now do you think thunder is caused by Thor or the sky dragon eats the sun.

Thats how gods come about fear and a lack of understanding of the world surrounding them so to solve the problem gods were created by MAN