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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Ok, let me ask you something. Why can't one get into heaven if they just do the right thing?

You do good in life - never hurt anyone, did everything to the best of your ability.

Is that not enough? Why do you have to accept JC as your lord and savior?

And do you not see my point in asking this question?




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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Some believe this is all just accident, the complexty of everything is so great to could take forever to be explained.
What is going on is something that muct occur, as even the nothing can not exist with out something to verifiy nothing is not there.
There is much more to the whole picture, unseen, it's not just this plane of existance, but this is one that must occur int his manifestation of exentence.
This place has been decibed as the gross physical plane, cause and effect, the choice is yours, the correct one would seem simple.
This is Mutiplicity, Dualality, The One still sits unmoved, all is illusion.
A great change is coming most can not or do not want to relize this is going to happen, as said the body is a temple, and it is time to clean house, it will make things much easier for those that do, but that almost needs to go with out saying.
If you don't get it The Christ said " do as I have done, and become as i am "
Please feel free to correct me on anything said, if you see error.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by impaired

You're only mocked when you guys try to shove your religions down other people's throats and walk around with that "holier than thou" attitude.

That's all.


Well our religion Commands us to do this. But look at it this way:
You've got a child with a terminal disease, there is no doctor who can provide an effective treatment. simply put... you're gonna lose your child no doubt. But now this weirdo comes along on a saturdaymorning preaching to you that he knows THE best doctor around who can SURELY cure your son... You might be very reluctant to listen since all the quazillion doctors you've visited proved useless... In this situation you've got a choice to try once more and possibly cure your son (he's gonna die anyway right) but you could also say no I wanna give my son his last couple of fun days without doctors. understandable but you might just have traded the chance of a lifetime in for a couple of days of rest.

Now look at it from the viewpoint of the preaching lunatic.. can you feel his drive? he KNOWS this doctor can cure your son and he'd wanna hit you over the head to make you listen... In fact you could call it a very loving thing he's doing...

Next time some lunatic rings your doorbel saturdaymorning think of this...



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by warpcrafter
Pffft! The bible is nothing more than a collection of badly written monotheistic propaganda that was loosely based on ancient Sumerian history....blah blah blah

Have you read it? I doubt it.

The Judeo-Christian belief is NOT monotheistic. The Sun God religion of Akhenaten was monotheistic, but the Hebrew religion was definitely polytheistic. Read Genesis, the Creation story. You can see God referring to itself in the plural as "us"...

So, who are the Gods of Judeo-Christian religion? They are God the Father (Creator), Christ The Son (Savior) and the Holy Spirit (Executer of God's Will on Earth). These are distinctly separate entities, accompanied by a Heavenly Host of Angels possessing more or less god-like attributes.

Anyone who has read the Bible knows it's not about monotheism and it's not propaganda.

— Doc Velocity



I've read it and studied it well, but find it far too limitede in its scope considering the following.

If we are going to call on reading Genesis then shouldn't we be reading the original Genesis that the Hebrews knew when in Sumer?

In which case that would be the extremely well detailed Sumerian Tablets accounts of Genesis with its prosaic detailing of how the solar system was formed over millions of years, how humans were created by another race who visited here frequently and who used the exact same phrases as are found in the Bible's version of Genesis.

The bible's version of Genesis is a very heavily edited version of a brilliant in depth original that explains everything perfectly. The ancient Hebrews knew this well before they went to Egypt.

The "us" in Gensis is the Council of 12 Anunnaki headed by Anu. Perhaps Believers should read that to understand how they have been duped by the elder brother of the one who did the Genetic experiments to create the Adamma.. Homo Sapian Sapien.. us.

It was Enlil who insured his younger brother would be viewed by humans for ever as the "evil son" for breaking an oath to the Council of 12 which brought about the entire Noah (real name Utnapishtim) story.

Interestingly, it was Enlil who was the angry hater of his brother and who made sure Enki was seen as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden (E.Din: the First Place). Yet Enki was the one who loved us dearly, which is why the Serpent told the humans how "God" was lying to them about the fruit in the first place.

Enlil used the sign from the House of Life in Africa (the Caduceus) and modified it to become the Serpent who Christians are led to believe is Satan. How easily you have all been duped by an ancient Visitor to our world!

Let me end with this quote I read recently on this site, sorry I don't remember who wrote it but it succintly puts the entire Belief-System into focus....




Christians believe that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil curse from your soul that is present in humanity because a woman made from a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat mind-expanding fruit from a magical tree.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by impaired
And to Doc Velocity - you say that Jesus did this and God did that like you were there.

Were you??? Or are you just getting this from the bible?


No, I was there. So were you, and in your heart you know it's true. The Bible only reminds us of Truths that we hold in our hearts, right. That's why people enjoy reading it repeatedly — it speaks to the human heart, it validates our condition because it's all been done before.

In that respect, you could rightly call the Bible a reference book to the human heart. Your heart knows the Truth. When you read the Bible, you know it's the Truth.

— Doc Velocity



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by fizzy1


So basically yoru admitting that jesus gave you a task that you cannot fulfill and is pointless. If jesus speaks nothing but truth and he by his own words claims few will find this way to life then it stands to reason all the preaching in the world will save only a certain elect. This is what i mean by elitists. Christians from this very viewpoint think they are so saved yet even among ALL you christians who think your saved a good number of you wont be. This is such a contradiction in the bible its not even funny. Dont preach about how we can all be saved and god loves us ALL yet by hos own sons words most wont even reached heaven and everlastng life. So what thehell is the point of it all then.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by fizzy1]


Quite the ignorant way to respond to this dont you think? what about the words "IF YOU"D ONLY LISTEN!!!!!"

What Jesus ways in fact saying is that he KNEW you'd respond this way... You are a prime example why that text about the narrow path truly is how things will work out... they didn't listen when jesus walked the earth... no true christian expects things to be any different now... even so they still try to find if even just 1 person willing to listen.. it would mean another life saved

[edit on 26-5-2010 by faceoff85]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by Cor Leonis
 




The Bible declares that it is The Word of God.


And therein lies my problem with the Bible. If it truly were the word of a perfect God it would be a perfect book.

Any document can CLAIM to be the word of God but if you do not question that statement and just accept it blindly you might as well be accepting the word of Satan himself.

I can claim that this post is the word of the God - THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.

The contradictions, scientific and logical inconsistencies, and moral absurdities that litter the pages of the Bible constitute proof that it is not the word of God. I have a feeling if there is a God he/she/it wants absolutely nothing to do with God or any of the primitive superstitions we humans have conjured up.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by faceoff85

Originally posted by impaired

You're only mocked when you guys try to shove your religions down other people's throats and walk around with that "holier than thou" attitude.

That's all.


Well our religion Commands us to do this. But look at it this way:
You've got a child with a terminal disease, there is no doctor who can provide an effective treatment. simply put... you're gonna lose your child no doubt. But now this weirdo comes along on a saturdaymorning preaching to you that he knows THE best doctor around who can SURELY cure your son... You might be very reluctant to listen since all the quazillion doctors you've visited proved useless... In this situation you've got a choice to try once more and possibly cure your son (he's gonna die anyway right) but you could also say no I wanna give my son his last couple of fun days without doctors. understandable but you might just have traded the chance of a lifetime in for a couple of days of rest.

Now look at it from the viewpoint of the preaching lunatic.. can you feel his drive? he KNOWS this doctor can cure your son and he'd wanna hit you over the head to make you listen... In fact you could call it a very loving thing he's doing...

Next time some lunatic rings your doorbel saturdaymorning think of this...





OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHKAy!!! ya know there is a big difference between a doctor "KNOWING" he has a cure and someone "KNOWING" they can save your soul. Its called PROOF!! i would assume the lunatic doctor had something to back up his claim. You guys on the other hand have a book filled with contradictions and a history of doing the wrong thing and judging people and killing anyone who you cant convert. Yep the whole christian world throughout history has been repleat with stories of love and foofoo and just wonderful fuzzys.
Man get real. I woyld sooner trust a man even a crazy looking man who was here in real life and could show me others he has saved. what do i have to loose right. This is the point your tryingt o make. What ya got to loose just come on aboard and get with the jesus fun bus. What ya got to loose. Well for one my sanity. For seconds i would think the last shred of humanity i have since you guys love nothing more than to pass judgement on the rest of the world and shove it in our faces how wonderful you are and how suckass the rest of us are cause we aint you.
I loathe christians... well let me say at least these kinds. Not one of you act like jesus did. I dont know if jesus just had good publicists or if he really was as kewl as he is written but i will say this. NONE of you are.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by faceoff85

Originally posted by impaired

You're only mocked when you guys try to shove your religions down other people's throats and walk around with that "holier than thou" attitude.

That's all.


Well our religion Commands us to do this. But look at it this way:
You've got a child with a terminal disease, there is no doctor who can provide an effective treatment. simply put... you're gonna lose your child no doubt. But now this weirdo comes along on a saturdaymorning preaching to you that he knows THE best doctor around who can SURELY cure your son... You might be very reluctant to listen since all the quazillion doctors you've visited proved useless... In this situation you've got a choice to try once more and possibly cure your son (he's gonna die anyway right) but you could also say no I wanna give my son his last couple of fun days without doctors. understandable but you might just have traded the chance of a lifetime in for a couple of days of rest.

Now look at it from the viewpoint of the preaching lunatic.. can you feel his drive? he KNOWS this doctor can cure your son and he'd wanna hit you over the head to make you listen... In fact you could call it a very loving thing he's doing...

Next time some lunatic rings your doorbel saturdaymorning think of this...


We're not your sons and you're not our fathers.
And I am not going to re-type EVERYTHING I just lost in this reply... All I'm going to say is enjoy your ticket into your club called heaven. We're not asking for a spot.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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With the increase in the population of the earth and the turning away from the one true God, the increase of those who mock and scoff has increased.

This prediction is being fulfilled in the day we live and, will continue to increase.

There is not a date you can put on this prediction. It is like going down a hill, you pick up speed until you get to the bottom. But, to say that lawlessness has not increased, is absurd.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 





The Bible only reminds us of Truths that we hold in our hearts, right.


Truths like:

Women who are not virgins when they get married should be put to death.

Witches should be killed.

Genocide is alright if God commands it.

Rape victims should marry their attackers.

People who work on the Sabbath should be put to death.

Slaves should obey their masters.

Children who talk back to or disobey their parents should be put to death (and go to Hell for disobeying a commandment)

The sins of the Father should be visited upon the Children.

A Loving God is allowed to kill children and still be considered loving and merciful

There are special ways to sacrifice animals, including rules about where to sprinkle blood.

Liars, cowards and magicians will be among those burned in the Lake of Fire as well as everyone who decided Christianity wasn't for them. This probably counts as about 99% of humanity.

Now I'll admit there's a handful of philosophically sound ideas scattered around in the Bible but the amount of absolute poppycock you have to weed through in order to get them is downright astounding.

Edit to Add:




When you read the Bible, you know it's the Truth


Actually reading the Bible was one of the many steps to losing my faith. When I saw some of the stuff that was in there I nearly flipped. Most Christians don't know the frightening level of BS right there in the Bible because they only read what Sunday School and Church service gives them (and then interprets for them).

Reading the Bible leads to educated loss of faith, because you understand what you are rejecting and why...

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by fizzy1
 


so you'd rather die.... also your choice... the way were going with this earth you WILL see your time pass before your lifenergy runs out... Oh and medical science NEVER garantees ANYTHING... They give chancecalculation...

And it really is kinda weird how people continue to use judaic laws to represent the christian faith Jesus gave us... Its becoming an old song... no christian branch today practises those old laws. why? cause the literal laws are obsolete... with Jesus death came the new commandments to follow..


[edit on 26-5-2010 by faceoff85]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by faceoff85
 


Wow what an awesome way to not answer the question. You a politician? Thats the most double talk i have heard in awhile. Its plain and simple. You state jesus says few will get to life. So what else is that to be taken as? Narrow is the way and few who will find it? What else does this mean except the obvious meaning and what you intended. I find it convenient that you cme back at me this way. I made a valid point and you have no real argument for it other than to throw jesus back at me and oh yeah thetypical christian diatribe of how i dont get it. I guess i just need faith eh? Convenient how this god created a religion that noone gets unless you on his side. Kinda makes it hard to win over the rest of mankind but thats kewl since only a few willmake it in.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by Cor Leonis
 

The New Testament says that the 'Last Days' began when Jesus was among us...
...at least this is what the writer of Hebrews said...

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." Hebrews 1:1-2

Which means that the 'last days' are those that follow the previous millenia...
...and it also means that the 'last days' have been happening for almost 2000 years now.




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by impaired
And to Doc Velocity - you say that Jesus did this and God did that like you were there.

Were you??? Or are you just getting this from the bible?


No, I was there. So were you, and in your heart you know it's true.


I do??? You were?? What?
Please don't tell me that you know what I "know" in my heart. Seriously...


Originally posted by Doc Velocity
The Bible only reminds us of Truths that we hold in our hearts, right. That's why people enjoy reading it repeatedly — it speaks to the human heart, it validates our condition because it's all been done before.


You mean that because it talks about human nature??? That doesn't make it any more true.

And if people like to read about an egomaniacal, jealous, MURDER, then I don't know what to say.
Maybe if people also admitted that Yahweh was a nutjob, it would make things a tad bit easier. It's this justifying and putting him on the pedestal that sickens me. According to the bible, Yahweh was not a nice guy. And far from perfect. Capiche?


Originally posted by Doc Velocity
In that respect, you could rightly call the Bible a reference book to the human heart. Your heart knows the Truth. When you read the Bible, you know it's the Truth.

— Doc Velocity


Wow... I have to totally disagree. If people want to fill a void, go ahead. I refuse to fill mine with wishful thinking - simple as that. Have your god come down here NOW and set up shop forever. Then it would get people crackin!!!!

But like Titen-Sxull said, a book was left behind. Books that can be edited and changed...

Sorry. Not the proof I'm looking for.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by impaired]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by Cor Leonis
With the increase in the population of the earth and the turning away from the one true God, the increase of those who mock and scoff has increased.

This prediction is being fulfilled in the day we live and, will continue to increase.

There is not a date you can put on this prediction. It is like going down a hill, you pick up speed until you get to the bottom. But, to say that lawlessness has not increased, is absurd.



oh my dear lord you just made my point for me. There can be no date put on this so how the hell are you dating it to now? Ignorance is bliss and your the happiest person on earth it seems. It can be argued that even in the day it was written that there were people who could and probobly did feel this was happening right then. And so on throughout history have people thought the prophecies were happening right then. look at the millerites. I mean seriously how are you making this as a prediction come true. It could also not be happening right now but just getting going and will actually comem true in 300 more years because the scoffing may only just now be getting going and hasnt reached its climax. What a idjet.


Seriously someone shoot me.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by Cor Leonis
With the increase in the population of the earth and the turning away from the one true God, the increase of those who mock and scoff has increased.

This prediction is being fulfilled in the day we live and, will continue to increase.

There is not a date you can put on this prediction. It is like going down a hill, you pick up speed until you get to the bottom. But, to say that lawlessness has not increased, is absurd.



oh my dear lord you just made my point for me. There can be no date put on this so how the hell are you dating it to now? Ignorance is bliss and your the happiest person on earth it seems. It can be argued that even in the day it was written that there were people who could and probobly did feel this was happening right then. And so on throughout history have people thought the prophecies were happening right then. look at the millerites. I mean seriously how are you making this as a prediction come true. It could also not be happening right now but just getting going and will actually comem true in 300 more years because the scoffing may only just now be getting going and hasnt reached its climax. What a idjet.


Seriously someone shoot me.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by fizzy1
 


Well just like you stated in the end I cant show you irrefutable scientific proof that what the bible teaches is truly what us humans should do... in that respect how can you expect me to give you a convincing response... just like you cant give me a convincing response wich would prove I am wrong... Its all based on faith... and like you mentioned you dont care for that... you need something more.. since the bible cant give you that you reject it... Free will anyone?

But do I get you right when I say you dont believe we are living in trying times? If you dont get the seriousness of our current world-wide situation then there is really nothing to do... you should just live your life and enjoy it... I am.. its just that i am expecting a whole lot more then you are... Wich COULD lead to a bigger letdown for me right? Lets just say I HOPE I'm wrong... but I dont believe I am

[edit on 26-5-2010 by faceoff85]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Tayesin
If we are going to call on reading Genesis then shouldn't we be reading the original Genesis that the Hebrews knew when in Sumer?

If it was up to me, the Epic of Gilgamesh would be in the Bible as part of (if not a replacement for) Genesis. If it was up to me, Genesis would include a full explanation of the Mesopotamian snake cults that existed in "Eden" approximately 4000 years ago — which completely changes the Creation Story.

Notice that nowhere in Genesis is the serpent identified as Satan. It's not Satan. Rather, it was an entity that revealed knowledge to the first Man & Woman. No evil done.

I know, as a former God-hating atheist of some 18 years, that Genesis is the favorite target of God-Haters. They point with glee to the many continuity flaws and inexplicable contradictions of the text, and they ejaculate when it is revealed that Genesis is nought but an incomplete compilation of oral tradition and folklore from many cultures across the Middle East.

But keep in mind that Genesis is a patchwork quilt of folklore. I'm the first to admit it, and I see nothing wrong with it, because I've supplemented my knowledge with data from sources outside of the Bible. GASP! It's not possible! He's saying that you can use the Bible in conjunction with other sources to gain a wider understanding!

Well, DUH.

We'd be going backwards if we threw out the Bible and its precepts which have shaped the evolution of our civilization for the last 2000 years.

Disavowing the Bible's credibility is the surest way to get your ass kicked in a civilization that evolved out of Christianity.



— Doc Velocity






[edit on 5/26/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by fizzy1
 


Well just like you stated in the end I cant show you irrefutable scientific proof that what the bible teaches is truly what us humans should do... in that respect how can you expect me to give you a convincing response... just like you cant give me a convincing response wich would prove I am wrong... Its all based on faith... and like you mentioned you dont care for that... you need something more.. since the bible cant give you that you reject it... Free will anyone?


And again i say can i get an amen!!! Anyone? Yeah agree 100 percent. The argument will never be won by either side until oh great sky daddy comes down and shows us the err of our ways. Puts me in my place so to speak. Yeah i am being sarcastic i suppose and i am all for believing trust me but my eyes were opened and it lead me away from this artificial reality of christianity. Actually it was the reality of who christians really are that opened my eyes. Way too many of you guys made me wake up and realize its all crap. Jesus was kewl. Way kewl. the kewlest cat walking the earth in a long time. If he really existed. Sometimes i think he was a conjuration of what the authors saw was a culmination of all that was good in mankind. But if he was real then wow is all i can say. That however does not mean i believe everything written in said bible. I also like the teaching if buddha. Philosphically jesus owned. He had alot to teach us about how to be towards one another. Problem is man has used everything written in that book to further a means to an end and with no regard to who got crushed killed or destroyed in the process.
I can tellyou this. If it is all true and its all real then i have some serious questions for the creator if and when i do get my chance to meet him/her or it. If since he created me cannot understand how i feel and why i feel this way then so be it. My soul is lost and thats all there is to that.

And to answer your question yes i believe we are living in trying times. The MOST trying of all times? NO. it just seems that way from your perspective. Not from mine. I look at some of the trying times in history especially say those that were devastating to mankinds existence. duringt he black plague i am sure quite a number of people looked towards bible prophecy and christianity for answers. They didnt have any did they. They pretty much assumed the same your assuming right now. This is the end. Well it was the end for some and not for others yet there ends came eventually too and yet mankind is still around. So many times in history has man thought god was comingt o bring judgement ont he world and ALL of them have been wrong. I guess my point is this. Why worry. I used to be christian. I used to be big on eschatology. Oh i could have some long talks with you on it. What i finally awoke to ne day was this. I spend all my time worry and thinking about the end yet the end will come soon enough. If not mankinds end then my own. so what have i wasted in looking for the end. I have wasted the here and the now and many more tomorrows. So i stopped wasting all those tomorrows on worrying when the end will come. Now through trial and tribulations of my own i have had another great awakening of the whole BS that is religion. The moment i cast of fear of judgement and lightning bolts from heaven and a god that will strike me down i started to question and my questions were met with answers that you would not like. Honestly i can say i would love it if it were all real. I think i liked life alot better when i believed in the fairy tale. I know i loved life better when i believed in santa clause as well. The veil is lifted and now reality is grim. The fairy tale offered hope. Reality offers none. None save that i am here. I exist here and now and thats what counts because so many have come and so many have gone and i will be counted among those numbers very soon. Soon as in time in comparison to the universe etc etc. Anyways a long explanation to make a point and i am sorry for that. I get long winded.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by fizzy1]





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