17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

reply to post by Parabol


You're missing the point. We have so many citizens already on food stamps & state reserves that employers who are paying illegals would no longer have any workers. He would then be hiring american citizens.

It has to start somewhere & as a humanitarian effort.
We cannot turn into savages & crowd them all up into camps.
Besides, Americans will work, it's volunteering that we're too lazy to do.

Could you imagine if you had about 2 million people volunteering every day for five months how much trash & repairs could be done to cities & towns, or oily shorelines? I've been to Houston before, they sure could use a few hundred volunteers to clean up the graffiti & trash strewn around that city.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by Afterthought]

reply to post by jfj123

And since we have more immigrants come in per year then all other countries combined

I'm still waiting for your source on that. It is ignorant to make claims without providing a source...please do so.

Not at all. Once again, you've missed my point entirely. You're condemning the US for it's laws which are much more immigrant friendly then mexico's yet you seem to support mexico and condemn the US.

Please show me where I have ever talked about Mexico's immigration laws or have supported them???

The only time I have mentioned Mexico's government is to say that it is corrupt and that is why people flee from there to come here.

Do you want to know anything about their background? Maybe they're coming here because they're a serial killer in mexico.
...
Again, what if they're with al queda?

Extremes extremes. What if we let in teh anti-christ and he kills us all...oh nooooooooo.

Tell you what...if someone comes into and breaks the law...arrest them.

I'd like to know how you plan on confirming everyone who enters (even today) has no criminal past.

If they show up at the border and say "HI...I'm a terrorist and plan on blowing up New York...but I plan on working"...then no...they shouldn't be allowed in.

Care to make any other arguments to the extreme??? It is quite amusing. How about...what if they are vampires....should we let vampires in???

reply to post by jfj123


HOLD ON...I just read your sig.

Those who would relinquish liberty to gain security, deserve neither and will soon lose both

And you are arguing that it is a good idea to allow police to check everyones papers to GAIN SOME SECURITY???


LOL...this is too funny.

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
First you are against a police-state.

Now you are FOR Police-state.

Facepalm.

Americans are the most gullible-flip/flop , easy-to-manipulate people in the whole world.

If you haven't already been asked, what country do YOU live in, and why don't you fill us in on the laws in YOUR country regarding being there ILLEGALLY?

To the very few posters against our state taking a stand, trying desperately to swing the debate your way, by calling into question other ATS members' devotion to paranoia, or whatever, you don't get it. YOU are the ones standing with the corrupt feds, who serve CORPORATE interests. THEY want the illegals here, so THEY can exploit them for cheap labor. YOU support slavery! THEY don't care about the tax money that goes to provide the services scores of ILLEGAL migrants use, services that WE the American citizens and LEGAL migrants pay for with our tax money, in order to help each other through rough times we may encounter. ILLEGAL migrants are stealing money from us, just like the feds who took our tax money to bail out the same corporate interests that push for them to do nothing to secure our borders. YOU are standing with them, the NWO. So, why are you on ATS?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Again, what if they're with al queda?

Extremes extremes. What if we let in teh anti-christ and he kills us all...oh nooooooooo.

So you think it is extreme for me to think that there is a possibility that current criminals including terrorist may try to cross our borders?

Tell you what...if someone comes into and breaks the law...arrest them.

So it doesn't matter to you that criminals who have killed, raped, stolen, etc.. in other countries would easily be able to cross our borders if you had your way?

I'd like to know how you plan on confirming everyone who enters (even today) has no criminal past.

Well you would need to at least try right? Maybe do some paperwork, have them fill out some forms, do some research into who they are, etc... You know kinda like we do now !

If they show up at the border and say "HI...I'm a terrorist and plan on blowing up New York...but I plan on working"...then no...they shouldn't be allowed in.

What if they were a terrorist but didn't say they were a terrorist but if you looked into it for 2 seconds, you'd find out that they are indeed a terrorist. You'd let them in because you don't want to look into it at all.

Care to make any other arguments to the extreme??? It is quite amusing. How about...what if they are vampires....should we let vampires in???

The funny thing is that they are not extremes. Criminals do come to America all the time so instead of an extreme, it's fairly common.
The difference between my argument and yours is that criminals and terrorists are known to exist whereas vampires do not unless you watch buffy

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

And since we have more immigrants come in per year then all other countries combined

I'm still waiting for your source on that. It is ignorant to make claims without providing a source...please do so.

Here is one source as posted many times on this thread
www.youtube.com...
www.numbersusa.com...

I answer your questions yet you don't answer mine...typical.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
And you are arguing that it is a good idea to allow police to check everyones papers to GAIN SOME SECURITY???

Everyone's papers?? READ THE BILL. Just as with anything the police can bust you for, they have to have a reason to stop you to begin with. The law here in AZ is NO different. If you have a tail light out, bad tags, are speeding, etc., and you are carrying drugs or a body in the trunk, etc. you may get busted. Now, being in this country illegally is added to that list. ANYTIME you are pulled over, you must show ID. Citizens, and legal migrants have ID to show. It's always been that way, and this is nothing new. But in the past, ILLEGAL migrants have actually had MORE rights than we have in that the local police could not bust them for being here ILLEGALLY. SO, basically once you'd gotten over the border, you were scott free. Not anymore.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

HOLD ON...I just read your sig.

Those who would relinquish liberty to gain security, deserve neither and will soon lose both

And you are arguing that it is a good idea to allow police to check everyones papers to GAIN SOME SECURITY???

LOL...this is too funny.

I've never said I support unlawful stops or even random stops and s1070 AZ doesn't allow for that. In fact it just re-enforcing existing federal laws which have been on the books for years.
Sorry another miss on your part

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Here`s the source you want to see. This is from 08.

www.nationmaster.com...

reply to post by jfj123


A youtube video as a source

And then another link to a website...not a specific source...but an entire website.

You are going to have to research your "facts" better than that

At least I now know where you get your information....youtube...

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jfj123

 

A youtube video as a source

And then another link to a website...not a specific source...but an entire website.

You are going to have to research your "facts" better than that

At least I now know where you get your information....youtube...

If I had 50 separate sources, you still wouldn't believe it's true.
And why haven't you posted a single source to support your argument? Not one source???
Kinda hypocritical isn't it?

reply to post by jfj123

If I had 50 separate sources, you still wouldn't believe it's true.

I don't need 50...just ONE...ONE solid source that backs up the claims you are making about America accepting more immigrants than all other countries combined. That is the claim you made...now please back it up or admit that you just completely made that up.

And why haven't you posted a single source to support your argument? Not one source???

What statement of fact have I made that you would like a source for?

I have expressed my OPINION here...not statments of facts.

You have made many statments of fact without any sources...I have asked you repeatedly and you ignored it and finally gave a youtube video link and an ENTIRE website.

You would think you would have this information at hand if you made the claim....right? You must of looked the information up before making such a claim...right? You wouldn't of just completely made something up and stated it as fact *gasp* would you???

Just give me the link to the SOURCE that spells out exactly the claim you are making.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Well, it works both ways you know. How about some sources from you, to back up your claims? You want everyone else to post their sources, but you don`t have to?

Here's another source although I'm sure you won't believe that either.

These numbers indicate that at least 1.2 million immigrants, and perhaps 1.3 million, now arrive in United States each year

www.cis.org...

Just an FYI

Originally posted by FiatLux
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Well, it works both ways you know. How about some sources from you, to back up your claims? You want everyone else to post their sources, but you don`t have to?

Give me a statment of fact I made that you want me to back up with a source and I will gladly do so.

I'm asking about specific statments he made...and it is starting to look like he just completley made them up.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Just give me the link to the SOURCE that spells out exactly the claim you are making.

I already gave you one source but you didn't believe it although you gave no reason not to. Now I need to ask you what sources YOU deem acceptable and by what criteria you find the sources acceptable. Could you please compile a list so I don't waste my time with sources that do not meet your criteria?

I'm torn. My state wants in. My city, Austin, wants out.

Originally posted by jfj123
Here's another source although I'm sure you won't believe that either.

These numbers indicate that at least 1.2 million immigrants, and perhaps 1.3 million, now arrive in United States each year

www.cis.org...

Just an FYI

I scanned that article...didn't see ANYTHING that says that we have accept more immigrants than all other nations combined.

The part you quoted doesn't prove that either.

You have the number that arrive in the United States...now prove it is larger than immigrants going to ALL OTHER COUNTRIES.

That is the claim you made...back it up...why is it so hard for you??? You obviously did not have a source for this statement when you made it...that is dishonest to begin with.

reply to post by jfj123

I already gave you one source but you didn't believe it although you gave no reason not to. Now I need to ask you what sources YOU deem acceptable and by what criteria you find the sources acceptable. Could you please compile a list so I don't waste my time with sources that do not meet your criteria?

What source? A youtube video of a guy talking? That isn't a valid source...sorry.

Give me an exact report of numbers showing your statement is fact.

Since it has been so hard...I already know that you didn't have a source when you made the statement...which in itself says a lot about you.

I'm out...I'll check back later...give you some time to dig through the internet in hopes of finding somehting that will back up your claim AFTER you have already made it. Maybe you should start confirming facts BEFORE you make the statment.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


How about here:

" The largest migration in history is changing the face of nations. The U. S. accepts more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. In China, one hundred million people are moving from the country to the city. In the West, the European Union will need over a hundred-million immigrants in the next three decades simply to keep its population at 1995 levels, as well as to keep the current ratio of retirees to workers. In Brussels, over fifty percent of the babies born are Muslim. In Germany, the death rate has exceeded the birth rate for decades, so they now have to depend on immigrants to maintain their high tech structure. In England, there are now more practicing Muslims than Anglicans. In Italy, the Archbishop of Bologna warned that Italy is in danger of “losing its identity” due to immigration from North Africa and Central Europe. The Catholic Church is facing the distinct possibility that in coming years, Islam will be the largest European faith. As migration increases, the historic legends that are the basis of national identities tend to wane. As one British historian put it, “ A white majority that invented the national mythologies underpinning modern European culture lives in an almost perpetual state of fear that it and its way of life are about to disappear.” This fear of the potential consequences of immigration is the subtext for everything else happening in Europe today."


Source:

www.worldtrendsresearch.com...