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17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

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posted on May, 23 2010 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by thomas_

Starve not from food but economically. But you're entitled to keep believing in that fairytale where the US doesn't depend on relations with foreign countries and would still be able to keep it's current lifestyle and size while inside a bubble.

But you're right it could sustain it self while inside a bubble, for what price it's a whole different issue though. In my "uniformed assessment" at least 80% of the population would be instantly downgraded from their current social classes and loose access to things that most currently take for granted.

Not to mention the little fact that US MNCs would either close their doors or reduce their operations making unemployment sky rocket.

In any case, back to the topic if there is any...



I'm still trying to figure out why that scenario should bother me. I can't see anything there that should cause concern in America.

Thinking...

Thinking...

Thinking...

Nope. Still nothing. Bring on your boycott. Please. Starve me out. I'm waiting.




posted on May, 23 2010 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by Prove_It_NOW
 



Nah I don't think California will be the last, I think Illinois will hold out longer than California. Matter of fact I don't think Illinois will ever do it


I hope all these states do follow through and many, many more join them.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by WXBackdoor
 



Yeah , A single mother of two is a criminal , a hard working man that is trying to provide for his family is a criminal.


If they came into this country illegally, then yes they are.



I hope the rest of the world boycotts America for being so backward.


Yeah we're backwards, like every other country has an open door policy right.

Go ahead boycott us, I take it you're from another country so by all means ask your government to boycott us. Then we'll get back our jobs that have been outsourced to other countries. Being boycotted may be good for us, turn us back into the isolationist country that we once were, I highly advocate that. We can grow our own food, we have our own water, we can bring back our steel mills, we can make our own electronics and autos. If we can't grow it, or make it ourselves we don't need it.

But remember this, just like Arizona says we can boycott right back


GO ARIZONA !!! And all the other states that choose to exercise their right to enforce their laws.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by thomas_
 



Please!!! The US would just starve to death or go down to the level of Cuba.


You are so wrong about that. We produce more than enough food to sustain ourselves.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04
My problem with this kind of legislation is that in my opinion (with which anyone may feel free to disagree of course,) it violates the fourth amendment.

The fourth amendment states that no citizen shall be searched - either in their homes, persons, effects, or papers - without probable cause or a warrant. The Arizona legislation says otherwise in, again, my personal opinion.


So then your saying, if I get stopped for a traffic violation, the police dare not check to see if I have insurance, VIA MY INSURANCE PAPERS or if my drivers license is valid AND NOT FRAUDULENT? Gee, it seems to me, if they didn`t check them, how are they to know if the person is driving lawfully or not? You better rethink that statement.


Let's say someone gets stopped for a traffic violation. There is obviously probable cause for the traffic violation, but now, if there is "reasonable suspicion" that the person being stopped is not a legal citizen, they can have their papers searched. What constitutes that "reasonable suspicion," though? That is an incredibly broadly interpretable phrase. Does reasonable suspicion simply mean that someone looks Mexican to the officer stopping them? If so, then that does not rise to the level of probable cause in my opinion, and violates the fourth amendment.


That isn`t hard to figure out. The "reasonable suspicion" part would be normal, in the fact that this person has no valid insurance or valid drivers license. And race wouldn`t have a thing to do with it. They all would be checked. Nice try at using it to look like they will just pick on the Mexican race though. I wouldn`t give a flying fat rats behind if they checked me if I was in violation of the law. It`s something you need to get use to, laws are there to cover everyone of every race.


Because this can apply equally to legal citizens and illegal persons, I feel that the language needs to be much, much more concise and specific in its use. We are talking about giving police officers the right to stop and search anyone, virtually on a whim, to confirm their United States citizenship, even if they are stopped for entirely unrelated reasons.


Can you please show me in this law, where it allows the police to stop anyone on a "whim", just to confirm their citizenship? Please do show me this if I have missed that part.


Again - just in my personal opinion - this is a violation of the fourth amendment.


Where in the Fourth Amendment does it say that breaking the law by not having citizenship documentation is ok and should be over looked? How will anyone be able to tell if that person is legal or not, if they aren`t allowed to be checked out? And if they are legal, what is there to worry about? If you check out ok, your on your merry way.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 04:19 AM
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i dont understand how people cant figure out what the arizona bill does....

i dont mind being asked for ID if im stopped, even if a cop stopped me walking down the street for no reason like the suprere court said they could do a few years ago...... im not illegal so why should i worry.
if i went to mexico illegally id go to prison , if i cant speak spanish, or have a degree i cant become a citizen of mexico. whats wrong with america asking that people follow our rules to come here? oh thats right were america were hippocrits even though our immigration policy is way laxer then most other countries.....

if other countries would mind thier own business then this whole debate wouldnt be going on



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by rls420
 


Yes, that is funny, isn`t it? We can`t go there illegally, but yet, they are suppose to be able to come here illegally? Can we say "double standard"? I believe the 'come here just for a job" thing is a ploy. Sure, many may need a job, but what about the drug gangs that have moved here? Or is that ok also, and we should`nt pay attention to them? No, I think it`s just a way of trying to make us look like a bunch of bad arsses to the world.



[edit on 23-5-2010 by FiatLux]



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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what i cant seem to figure out is the governments motivation for ignoring our laws and border security... it could be a number of things.. maybe they want a big terrorist attack to happen? maybe this is way of getting their NAU? maybe this is part of a plot to destroy our soverignty to make way for an NWO of which Obama called for at west point yesterday..? maybe the government is kissing business arse? or maybe they just are trying to be so racially polite it makes them look lilke complete traitors to their country... what could possibly be their motivation???

i see this as another paralel with rome. "invasion by the foreign hordes" sort to speak. the perfect storm is hitting the united states right now...



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by TheCoffinman
 


HEre is a question I hope you have thought about in the past:

What happens if the problem is not illegal immigrants? What if they are actually helping the US more than (taking).

You are willing to divide America based on assumptions? Well I don't mind, people are looking for an excuse to rid USA from world map, this might be it.


It's kind of a pointless question because they are NOT helping but hurting the US.
Many people see it first hand including myself.
Let's be honest, if they were helping (ie improving our lives) why would we want them to leave ?



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 05:55 AM
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I've noticed that although many people have brought up the AZ law s1070, I haven't seen anyone post a link to the law so here it is:

www.azleg.gov...



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by GorehoundLarry
 


ATS turned this way due to ATS board who are probably worried more about money, than the core value of this community.

It just killed the whole website, all I see now is political ranting sessions in every thread. While the MODS nit-pick those who they disagree with, too much, too much.



ATS died a long time ago.
The mods indeed pick out those who disagree with them and delete their posts...and then give the poster(s) warnings or a decrease in points.

A good site has collapsed. Good job racists. Thank goodness there are other sites out there with not as much racism or intolerance.


I really haven't seen much racism here on ATS so I think you're just fuming because people don't agree with YOU.
I've had plenty of opposing views with mods since I've joined and not once have I had anything negative happen unless I broke the TS which has only happened a few times and even then they were fair about it.

By the way, you've been slamming both the entire site and the mods yet you're still here?!?!?! Hmmmmm maybe the fact that you're still posting disproves your ENTIRE argument



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by nite owl
reply to post by LittleSecret
 


What if i were a canadian illeagal? NOPE, try again. flew out the window into ignorance.


An ILLEGAL is an ILLEGAL regardless of country of origin, ethnic background, creed or color.

An ILLEGAL by definition is a CRIMINAL which means it doesn't matter where you come from.

Ask yourself if it matters whether or not you're a mexican rapist or a canadian rapist....a crime is still a crime.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret

Originally posted by nite owl
reply to post by LittleSecret
 


What if i were a canadian illeagal? NOPE, try again. flew out the window into ignorance.


I don't see you talking about closing the north border ?

And when was the last time a white person stopped and questioned ?


White people get stopped for stupid things all the time just like everyone else.

I'm pretty sure everyone believes ALL illegals are criminals, not just the mexican illegals.
Oh by the way, since 9/11, the northern borders have been substantially harder to cross as security has increased substantially.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:10 AM
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So you would say if states like California and the soon few others don't follow suit they will be flooded by illegal aliens.And i don't think Californi is capable of handling that with their deficit, they have to follow.
I support this just like in the EU we should have, -and its going the right direction-, to have the same [though] immigration laws..



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret

Last time I went to Canada I was stopped at the border and asked for ID. I am white. Coming back into the US I had to show ID again. I was still white.

The most important parts of your post is in bold, in case you didn't notice it yourself.

Yes if you cross the border it is alright to check ID, but these laws encourage authorities to go after those who are not crossing the borders.


Could you show us exactly where in bill s 1070 AZ, it says the law encourages authorities to go after those who are not crossing the borders ?

Thanks.



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by yenko13
 




The people that are not citizens and break the laws and collect subsidies without paying into the system 80% brown 75% Mexican


You confused the problem, the problem does pay in to the system, they work for America businesses, that is paying in to the system.

The problem is they are illegals.

That is the only problem, do you agree?


No they don't pay into the system.
They get cash under the table so they don't pay taxes, they don't pay medical expenses, etc...
You're suggesting that because they work for companies who pay taxes and make products, they indirectly pay into the system. I guess that's fine and all so let's all just pay indirectly into the system the same way and see what happens. What do you think would happen if we all were paid cash, paid no taxes, didn't pay medical expenses, etc... ????
Seriously what do you think would happen ????



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by LittleSecret


The negative will be the collapse of many companies who's soul survival depends on illegals.


If this were really the case, all companies would have illegals so this won't happen. Illegals only increase profits to owners.


Now you fill in the positives:

OK here's one:
When those illegal hiring companies are forces to compete with lawful companies, it will be easier for the good companies to prosper.

Oh here's another one:
Now those companies and employees will pay taxes so as not to force the rest of us to pay their taxes for them.

Oh here's another one:
More US citizens will have jobs.

Oh here's another one:
Less crime.

and on...and on...and on...



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by nite owl
reply to post by GorehoundLarry
 


Deported to mexican prisons and left for dead. FIRST OF ALL, why did they go into a mexican prison and why were they left for dead. Are you saying that mexico is into GENOCIDE?



I have read through your posts...you seem to just like to be negative and say nasty things...but I don't get your angle.

Yes...Mexico as a country/government is in horrible shape...that is why the good people of Mexico are coming here to look for a better life.

For some reason in your eyes that makes them vile criminals. In my eyes that makes them decent human beings looking to feed their families...coming to the land of the free where immigrants are supposedly welcome.

OH that's right...do it legally....where it costs 10k or more to do so. Yeah...that is reasonable...they can't feed their family...but they just happen to have 10k sitting around to do it legally. There comes a time where humanity trumps man made laws and imaginary lines.


OK so you're suggesting that we need to help all impoverished people by allowing them to come here? Where would we put them? How would we feed them? There are plenty of countries worse off than mexico so if you can justify illegals coming here from mexico, surely you agree that worse of countries citizens should also be allowed to come here RIGHT ?



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by nite owl
 


Ok...so you agree that Mexico's government is corrupt and the living conditions are not good.

So you should have no problem seeing why people are running from there to come to here...right?


So what do we do when most of the people in the world come to the US ??

I can't wait to hear your answer for that question !



posted on May, 23 2010 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


=========================================

Actually in your own words you replied:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Go find the law and give a source that says I have to show a police officer anything (unless I am driving). You won't find it. In SOME states I have to give them my name verbally...but that is all.
In your post of: posted on 22-5-2010 @ 11:53 AM

===========================================

And I did. And of course if you ever travel to Texas, and an officer asks you for an id, whether or not it is for a traffic stop, loitering, prowling, or or acting suspicious, and you refuse to show him same keep the following in mind and enjoy your ride to the pokey



"Basically if your in public an officer can ask you for your ID. Here, in Texas your required to show the officer your ID if the officer has a right to detain you, or any vehicle your in. And we will take you in for a fingerprint check if you refuse. But; before an officer can require you to show ID he has to be able to lawfully detain you. All he needs is to be able to articulate reasonable suspicion.
Source(s):
20 +Years LEO - Mostly here in the Lone Star State"

=============================================




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