Atheism – The complete disregard of scientific fact

reply to post by Conclusion


It's inefficient and breaks down all the time.

What is an example of intelligent design in the human body?

Originally posted by Horza
reply to post by Conclusion

 

It's inefficient and breaks down all the time.

What is an example of intelligent design in the human body?

It is obvious that you did not listen to the youtube post in the OP. Listen to it then you can debate what you think is wrong with it.

reply to post by Conclusion


I have heard all the arguments ... there is only so many times you can repackage the same stuff ... "cdesign proponentsists" any one?

There is so many things wrong with the human body that a first year engineer student could do a better job.

Intelligent designer ... phfff ... why do we have to make everything in our image ... so much arrogance it frustrates me no end.

There is a force in the universe that governs the way life begins and evolves, but it is not intelligent or sentient ... it is raw, ruthless and incredibly amazing ... I like to call it "nature" ... "The Force" was already taken ...

Originally posted by randyvs

Atheism comes right out and says,"There is no God". A claim that only someone with absolute knowledge of the universe can make. You would
have to know all the possible variations, that could arise on every level
of existence, there could even remotely be. If anyone possesed full
knowledge of the universe.That would make them God. To say, There is no God is the same thing as saying, I am God.

Therefore Atheism is the wackiest thing I've ever heard.

No one needs proof that God exists. The Bible dosn't spend anytime trying to convince people that God exists. It only shows us that his existence is so obvious, we have no excuse for denying it.

This has got to be the wackiest thing I've ever heard.

The Ultimate being and creator of everything, not only needs, requires and desires it's creations to worship it, but seems to rely and allow it's worshipers to write and reedit a book as evidence of it's existence and magnificence?

The Ultimate being which appears to be relying on it's followers to convert and correct all others on its behalf?

Followers who may control, condemn and kill everyone else not like them because of their absolute faith in a religion, a book/books written or created by man but is supposed to be inspired by God, which an atheist consider to be non-existent?

I don't consider myself an atheist, but it is not difficult to respect an atheist views, unless you happen to be a hardcore fundamental theist.

my 2 cents.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by ixiy]

Originally posted by BlankSlate
I can't answer this because I am neither the Atheist Pope nor an anthropology expert, but evidence based on atheists I have met suggests that most don't end up as nihilists.

Yes, most don't end up as nihilists, but that's why I am curious as to why they don't, as it is clearly the most logical or rational worldview without a God.

Originally posted by BlankSlate
As for why an atheist would follow an ethical or moral code, well, any good moral code should explain why a person should follow it.

This is what I'm trying to get at; why on earth would an atheist burden themselves with something as irrelevant as an ethical or moral code ?
It just seems completely illogical to me. I just can't see why morals and ethics would have any relevance to a logical, rational atheist.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by Conspiracy Chicks fan !]

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
Wow, just WOW! That is the stuff right there.

I lean towards a "purpose" based universe instead of a "random anomaly" universe, but I don't claim to see it the way it really is. At least admit you don't know, jeez. That is faith sir. You can use a "secular" word to separate yourself but it is what it is.

I see something written down, I logically think someone wrote it. I see a machine, perfect or NOT, I think someone designed it. That is logic, but I don't deny that I don't KNOW or see the universe the way it is.

I have admitted I don't know. If you have preconceived notions about the the universe, you will be viewing things through the smoked glasses of your own bias.

Your so-called logic is one reason why we conceive of creators. If something looks designed, it therefore must be. The universe is full of complex structures that are not designed, yet this so-called "logic" tells certain people they are. It's not logic, it's lack of knowledge.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
What does being an atheist has to do with having moral values?

Both are completely separate concepts, I dont see the point of even mentioning the 2 in the same sentence... its like "ok, you dont like apples, so you clearly dont like sports cars" what the hell?

Because moral values should be completely irrelevant if you are a logical atheist. To declare any action or philosphy as moral or immoral is completely arbitrary, as logically neither of those two concepts actually exist, except as the figment of someone's imagination.

Why would a logical person unneccessarily burden themselves with something like that ?

Originally posted by Quadrivium
So, does God exist and why do people believe in him? Sure He does and people believe in him because they always have.

That's hardly convincing and completely devoid of evidence. Belief in something does not substantiate its existence.

Originally posted by Conclusion
That logic is wrong. If we did not need creators in the world in which we live we would have no kind of technology what so ever. As we have learned how programs apply to the running of a technology we see how our own bodies are operating off the most advanced programming we know as a fact exists. Our own DNA. Call the creator a programmer if you want. But as we know with technology, it doesn't create or program itself.

Your logic is wrong by applying anthropocentric analogies to the laws of physics. If you're claiming that "DNA doesn't program itself" I suspect you have limited knowledge of the behavior of proteins and amino acids, how they form and what they do. Study up and perhaps you won't make another fallacious argument in the future.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Your so-called logic is one reason why we conceive of creators. If something looks designed, it therefore must be. The universe is full of complex structures that are not designed, yet this so-called "logic" tells certain people they are. It's not logic, it's lack of knowledge.

What's the difference between someone interpreting these complex structures as designed, and someone else asserting that these structures are not designed ?

It seems both conclusions are based on personal belief. Isn't it more logical to say that there are just complex structures in the universe, without asserting whether they are designed or not ?

Beliefs cant be proven...

I dont see the point in this thread.

I see the point in the OP wishing everyone kept a open mind...but nothing about a God or a no God...can be proven.

I am a believer...but I call it being a 'knower'...through experiences, I just know there is more then this existence.

I have no issues with others that dont seek or believe...and I dont think the Spirit has any issues with those that dont seek or believe because its NOT obvious there is a higher spirit within life. It makes no sense that the emanator would make a world and a intelligent being and then give no obvious signs that there is something more. FOR SURE SIGNS...not just guess work signs.

ITs like this for a reason...the reason though, IDK. And I dont really care. I know there is purpose and the person has to do with Humanity becoming all it can be 'together'. Many believers keep separating humanity...so most o fthe time, I find myself siding with Atheist.

Life is a mystery....and this is the middle ground of agreement between all of mankind. I find that people that find life to be a very random thing and a happenstance...they are very logical people and are likely going to keep pushing humans to be all they can be...keep reaching out into this vass Universe...keep taking care of the planet for its all we have and someone might not give us another one....we need the variety of thinkers that we have...and its all OK.

Originally posted by SpectreDC]

There certainly has been evidence, just not empirical evidence. Not scientifically usable evidence. It's something that science can not use because science deals with the physical. The only evidence that exists that is irrefutable is something that is self-evident. And even then, people try to refute it. So there is nothing that is irrefutable unless in your belief it is irrefutable, which would show that you look at things with rose colored lenses.

Emprical evidence is required for claims which would openly defy the laws of physics. Self-evident "evidence" is subjective opinion. If this were a standard of evidence, we'd have all the proof we need for ghosts, demons and dragons. Holding a scientific standard of evidence is hardly viewing things through rose-colored glasses, rather, it's viewing things without colored glasses.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Let me tell a story...

I saw a man one day....move a object, with his mind/energy.whatever. I cant explain HOW it happened. But I KNOW what I saw. Ive seen it done twice.

I cant prove this. So I dont expect anyone else to believe it. So I dont mention it often.

Its similar to those who have experienced something other worldly. Why take your discussions to those that have not experienced such things...why not keep it amongst others that have experienced it, for discussion sake.

If you sit on the fence, having never seen someone move something without known reasons to back their action....why debate with anyone about a 'belief'? Why show confusion for the ones that dont believe its possible....even though you keep a open mind?

Why cant we all understand where each other is coming from?

I guess this is why I will debate with other believers....but I often side with a Atheist....but yet...I believe in a higher power.

Go figure

It's not faulty and baseless.
Atheism is a lack of belief in deities, yes, so therefore without any absolute moral authority, there is no such thing as right or wrong; in fact morality and ethics should be as imaginary a concept to atheists as God is.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Morality and ethics are not derived from belief in deities, rather they're derived from social contract. Indeed, under that arrangement they are arbitrary.

Morality and ethics may or may not derive from belief in deities, but they are only relevant if a deity exists that defines morality.
The argument that social implications are the source of morality is slightly moot, owing to the fact that many things that are generally considered to be immoral can still easily be carried out within the confines of a broad social setting.

Sorry, but morality is not policed by a cosmic tyrant, nor do morals lose value in the absence of the invisible authority. Standards of right and wrong are established by culture, and moral and immoral behavior are both committed by believers and non-believers. You're exploring qualities of nihilism, not atheism. The ties of morality to theism are done so by people who require religious authority over theirs and other's actions and/or by people who need to fear a metaphysical punishment for their worldly transgressions of morality. Atheists are perfectly capable of moral behavior. Conversely, theists are often seen behaving completely immorally.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Let me tell a story...

I saw a man one day....move a object, with his mind/energy.whatever. I cant explain HOW it happened. But I KNOW what I saw. Ive seen it done twice.

I cant prove this. So I dont expect anyone else to believe it. So I dont mention it often.

Its similar to those who have experienced something other worldly.

I saw a magician saw a woman in half, then later she was whole and walking around again. I don't know how they did it but I know what I saw.

Because they were magicians I'm pretty sure they only tricked my brain into thinking she was sawed in half. What happens when the brain is fooled by other sources and we can't recognize the illusion?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Psychokinesis remains unproven in scientific conditions. There's no evidence that brains could affect objects outside the body. It's simply unnatural. If there isn't some sort of physical connection (or the brains having some sort of sending unit for the assumed energies) I'd say it's impossible.

The universe may be more complex and more weird than we can imagine, but it still follows the laws of physics. We may not just yet understand them.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Chicks fan !
Because moral values should be completely irrelevant if you are a logical atheist. To declare any action or philosphy as moral or immoral is completely arbitrary, as logically neither of those two concepts actually exist, except as the figment of someone's imagination.

Why would a logical person unneccessarily burden themselves with something like that ?

You're still discssing nihilism, not atheism. If you actually believe you need fear of cosmic tyrants to behave morally then you apparently understand little about the human condition.

reply to post by Tryptych


I agree...that everything follows a Universal law...but yet we just dont understand all of these laws and not sure we will ever.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I agree there are many illusions. It just so happens the nature of this person, how well I know them, and this was all done in a moment of happenstance more or less. It was not planned, it came out of no where really...and this person is not comfortable with the fact that they can do this. It confuses them more then anything and he was doubting himself after showing me. He himself is a person that likes explanations...and sense he does not have one...he does not like to share this.

The hardest part for me was...respecting his right to not show others or admit to others of it. He became very defensive. I should add he is a very private person..does not care for attention or people making a big deal over things. He is the last person that would want attention.

This was not a magic show, it was in my own living room. Im not trying to convince anyone...Im just saying, the situation and the person it was...allows me myself to know...this was a real thing.

I point being...I cant expect anyone to just believe me. Was just trying to make a point.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Originally posted by Conspiracy Chicks fan !
Yes, most don't end up as nihilists, but that's why I am curious as to why they don't, as it is clearly the most logical or rational worldview without a God.

No, it is not a logical worldview to behave immorally with belief in deities because there are clear consequences to immoral behavior that do not come from dieties or fear of them. Real-world consequences.