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Atheism – The complete disregard of scientific fact

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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on May, 19 2010 @ 12:26 PM
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posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by faceoff85
WRONG, the burden of proof lies with anyone claiming ANYTHING including the calim that there is no god


Not believing in deities is not a claim that there is no god. Maybe there is. It's up to those claiming there is one to supply the evidence.

I believe in bright green marshmallow beings living in the methane pools of Titan. Now according to the "believers of God" my belief is undeniable because those that don't believe in my belief can't prove i'm wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS!!!!!!

There is actually a method of proving something that is almost impossible to prove directly. Mathematicians do it all the time to prove or disprove unprovable proofs! I will leave it up to the informed reader (who cares about being right or wrong) to investigate the method.

I will leave you with this: the method proves there is no God.....ooops.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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As soon as I heard the infamous "Boeing 747 argument" I had to stop. It's an often repeated, always debunked weapon phrase of creationists. It's just an argument from incredulity citing the incredible complexity of life, the mondboggling power of evolution then attributing it to a God because to the observer it seems as unlikely as a tornado through a junkyard assembling a functional airplane. This is also an argument from authority, don't take something as fact because a famous asteronomer said it, he's wrong on this one, deny ignorance.

This argument displays a fundamental lack of understanding of evolution, trying to interpret it as chance when it is the opposite. Evolution is a slow, gradual process with which you can form predictions, it isn't blind chance assembling the lattice of a sea sponge or a whirlwind scooping up animal parts and assembling a beetle. Likewise, this argument is self terminating, any entity complex enough to create an atom, or jaguar, or universe or 747 by this logic must be more intricate and complex than it's creation. Thus you encounter a problem of infinite regress, each creator(or prime mover if you like) must be more complex down an infinitely long chain.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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So let me see now if I understand this scenario: Atheists just can't see God in any of the mighty works(aspects) of the universe within physics, quantum mechanics, bio-diversities, time-distance-gravitational interactions,or the speeds of light, sound and smell ! Right?

And Evolutionists can't see God because we are just a bunch of very smart monkeys finding their way through various political experiments.

So Creationists, see God, in all of the above mentioned realizations of existence, and give credit for these great manifestations to a Supreme Being? Right?

Well then is Emile Borel correct when he described the "Origins of the Liberal Media" by postulating his Creationists agenda, within mathematics, physics, theoretical algebra (aka) "infinite number of typewriters.."; using evolutionists tendencies, of Atheistic realities?

Yes because it proves God has a great sense of humor by allowing CNN to exist!

Trust me I'm a Salesman.
Call me at BR-549 for a great deal



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:07 PM
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There's no such thing as a scientific fact.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Never in my life have I had to reread something I just wrote. I'm sure not goonna start now.

hippomchippo


There's no such thing as a scientific fact.


Once you decide God dosn't exist. The list of things you must strike from existence, just keeps growing. Sirnex told me one time that evolution didn't exist.
Of course I agreed with him at that point. I had him P. O.ed that day boy. yooh.




[edit on 19-5-2010 by randyvs]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by hippomchippo
There's no such thing as a scientific fact.


Mhhhh....riiiiiiiight...not if it disagrees with your belief, huh?


This sentence you wrote is just plain stupid. Guess what, if there's no scientific facts, you couldn't have typed this message on a COMPUTER, developed by science...

[edit on 19-5-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by faceoff85

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Quadrivium
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 

So where is your undeniable truth that a Creator does not exist?


One cannot prove a negative. The burden of proof is on those that claim invisible and/or absent entities exist.


WRONG, the burden of proof lies with anyone claiming ANYTHING including the claim that there is no god.


Oh puh-leeeeeze... You have no way of knowing whether or not I am the Supreme Being Zmorrg, broadcasting to ATS on a subspace level 1, from the center of a neutron star. Occam's razor tells me that the assumption that I am Zmorrg needs to be rejected, just as that there is in fact a Judeo-Christian God. Can I win a lottery jackpot of 300 million? I can, theoretically, so call me an agnostic. However, the hypothesis that there is no God is better compatible with the facts as we know them.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by ixiy
 





Followers who may control, condemn and kill everyone else not like them because of their absolute faith in a religion, a book/books written or created by man but is supposed to be inspired by God, which an atheist consider to be non-existent?


Ok now this is the wackiest thing I've ever heard.


It's very easy to ridicule any attempt at explaining existence.
How does an atheist explain existence?
Well lets see sounds to me like they believe in magic performing feats by itself. I have never heard of any magic show that did not have a magician.
That would truly be a magic show for sure.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by randyvs]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 





You can see this today with all of the religion and all of the politics, playing one group against another because of a difference in pre-determined beliefs of policy which makes people have to choose what they believe in when they are not truely asking themselves what they believe in. I don't know if this made sense but i would appreciate your views, are we eternally destined for disagreement and unacceptance?


Trying to answer this and leave out my personal belief is difficult, for my narrow understanding does then fall back to my own personal views and experiences.

Yes...I think we are destined to disagree...but I believe this disagreement leads us to unity. The reasons I have for this are long and winded...and probally dont make much sense to others.

But you did ask what I thought, so I will share my personal belief...and it is only a belief.

If we were just born all the same...with out the differences...what would we be? How would we challenge eachother? How would we philosophize together? What would we have to 'figure' if we just KNEW there was or was not something greater or a more prime form of consciousness waiting for us?

So I think we are destined to be different and not know...for good reasons. I think with many more years and much more history and alot more trial and error....we will continue to observe that people seem to 'see spirits or ghosts'....have unexplainable experiences....but also possibly, the prophecies will fail, books will be found as just books and not holy words....everything has to play it self out in time. Mabey after another 2000 yrs or even another 6000 years of imprinting ourselves onto history and leaving behind our thoughts to the future....we can evolve with out thinking and we can test what has been left behind to us.

For me....personal beliefs are getting more interesting with things like Quantum science and theories such as an Electrical Universe. Again, just beliefs...I cant say this as a fact would prove a higher existence that exists beyond this physical experience.....but for my experiences...for me, it would support what I have already experienced in this life and tie into my beliefs.

Its not only this planet and this species that must over come such things...I believe it will extend beyond our sphere and people.

I dont think we are to be just given answers. I think we are made to be a figuring species. I dont think we are made to take another's word for anything...and I think that science will back spiritual ideas one day. Will it ever prove a 'God' as a seperate being and a heaven in the sky....I dont think so and that is not what Im getting at. But I do think that more people will open their minds and say.....just mabey there is more and mabey my life doesnt end with death.

I think a huge hump for humanity is to get this thing over with the land of Israel. I think it may take many more years and many more people to die and many different claims in that land before people look around and see that God is not choosing a land and is not worried about a special people. My personal thought is that this is one major part of our human past that is sticking us in the mud with our moving forward, as a unit. Can I prove it? No....but I ready for them to go to war and bring it on....to see if this 'God' or Savior comes to force this world order over a holy special land. If we are still waiting on this prophecy in another couple thousand years....hopefully some others will take a second look and start to test this kind of thinking on their own.

I dont see the spiritual experiences going anywhere....in fact, there are more true seekers then ever...so I see this increasing. From what I have experienced, a true seeker on a personal path is very accepting of someone who chooses not to seek at all or even question the logical surroundings around them...and at the same time...I dont see many atheists that give this spiritual seekers a problem....so I do think there will be a more accepting future amongst humans...after we can get over some of this past pride of chosen ones. I dont think there will always be 'unacceptance' but I believe that we must walk that path to get to the other. It seems to be the way of nature...in my opinion.

Likewise....I would love to hear what you think on this subject....if there will always be debates and unacceptance? Course there could be debating...and acceptance...if we can all agree...we are on unprovable ground here. We must find important common ground...be able to brake bread together at the end of the day and help raise the children amongst us here.

LV

[edit on 19-5-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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It all depends on who has had the veil lifted from their eyes. To believe that there is ONE invisible man living in the sky, is so simple minded to me. I am not Atheist or Agnostic, and do not believe God. I don't believe in the "God" that man has manipulated to use as a weapon against people.

I respect the views and beliefs of everyone, but from personal experience, Christians, have judged me and formed an opinion of me. Because I don't follow the sheepal, and worship their God every Sunday morning. I am the only one that feels this way in my family, so you can imagine how it was when I first told my parents what my beliefs were. I was raised where you get your butt in church every Sunday morning, no matter what! I also find that Christians will talk to me about their beliefs and come to my door to preach it, and I will listen, respectfully. But they will have no part of what I have to say in return.

So, you can complain about Atheist or Agnostics or whatever, but until you take at least 10 mins. to read or research something in that realm of literature, you have no right to complain. And that means going beyond the definition of the two. Most Atheist or Agnostics were Christians at some point in their life that decidied "something just doesn't make sense, there's got to be more to it".



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Never in my life have I had to reread something I just wrote. I'm sure not goonna start now.

hippomchippo


There's no such thing as a scientific fact.


Once you decide God dosn't exist. The list of things you must strike from existence, just keeps growing. Sirnex told me one time that evolution didn't exist.
Of course I agreed with him at that point. I had him P. O.ed that day boy. yooh.




[edit on 19-5-2010 by randyvs]

I don't accept that God doesn't exist, I say that there is no evidence for it, and I don't see why I should believe in something just because it's possible it might exist.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by Organic97
 


You brought up some great points Organic..and it made me wonder...what are we labeled as in the eyes of the people that label an Atheist.

I dont label myself...I feel no need to. I dont know what to call this 'higher existence' that I have experienced...but the word "GOD" is so tainted and gives no justice anymore to the spiritual things I experienced.

So often words like jealousy are attached, or wrathful...to the word 'GOD'....and this is opposite of what I have experienced....so what does that make me? Am I believer in God? You made me question this...Im a believer in Spirit, and I would call this nature of Spirit Holy and Divine...but still, its very far from the common definition of the word 'God'.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by hippomchippo
 


Why not? I mean, maybe the universe and us were created by a giant rainbow colored turtle that farts soap bubbles. He also doesn't want you to eat turtle meat, everything else is fair game. Don't believe me? PROVE ME WRONG


According to a lot of creationists, the burden of proof is your responsibility since it's YOU who doesn't believe. So please go and find me some proof that that turtle doesn't exist. I'll be waiting...

I mean...it is possible, right? So why not believe in it? You could piss off the mighty turtle and end up in turtle hell...so better believe in him. Do it! DO IT NOW!!

I do realize that now you're gonna say there's no scriptures supporting my claims. Don't worry, I'm working on it...



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


I agree 100% with you. I feel no need to put a label on myself. It is hard enough just being human without adding the dividing factors of labels. I hope I did not make you question yourself in bad way, because it sounds like you have an open mind about the universe and our part in it. To me, spirituality doesn't limit you in any way. There is a deeper learning and meaning to it. It is a respect between all living things.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by TrustMeImaSalesman
Yes because it proves God has a great sense of humor by allowing CNN to exist!

Trust me I'm a Salesman.
Call me at BR-549 for a great deal


Wow.

I don't think you could sell me a bottle of water if I was dying of thirst.




posted on May, 19 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SentientBeyondDesign
I personally believe that a mixture of faith and science is needed.


Faith is simply believing things without evidence. If faith is accepted somehow as a scientific principle, then essentially any unsupported hypothesis would have to be considered equally as valid as evidence-based theory.

What scientific method reveals to us is that the universe operates just fine without our concepts of creators/deities/gods. This is often seen as an existential threat to the devout believer, and we end up with all manners of foolish science-deniers.


More specifically, faith is believing in something with only anecdotal or "personal" evidence. It can't be reproduced. Inconsistencies in the evidence are either discarded or worked into the belief.

Science is the acceptance of known facts that are reproducible or measurable in some way to everyone. Inconsistencies are usually retested to determine validity and then the knowledge gained is updated for everyone.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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I find it funny that Atheists are always asked to prove something. Why? We don't believe, so what is there to prove. We rely on rationalism, no one has showed us anything that proves the existence of a god. Now no one has showed us proof that fairies exist either, therefore, we simply don't believe and don't feel we need to look for it. So once again, why must we prove anything?

Atheism is always called a belief system, when actually, it's a lack of belief system. We are also accused of having "faith that there is no god". Faith is the belief in things that had no evidence to back them, we don't believe so how can we not believe that we don't believe something?

Creationist like to tell us that everything is created, the air around us, ourselves, the natural world around us, and so on. However that may be true, that does not make that creator a god. It may be no more than a process created by an infinite number of endless probabilities and possibilities. Rationalists, and Atheists are not so gullible to believe that an all powerful being is spinning all this. We choose reason rather than faith, because in the end your assumption of a creator is not backed by any reasonable evidence. Faith is irrational, we Rationalist/Atheist are trying to find the answers using science, faith is not. Faith is assuming you already know the answer.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by hippomchippo
 


Why not? I mean, maybe the universe and us were created by a giant rainbow colored turtle that farts soap bubbles. He also doesn't want you to eat turtle meat, everything else is fair game. Don't believe me? PROVE ME WRONG


According to a lot of creationists, the burden of proof is your responsibility since it's YOU who doesn't believe. So please go and find me some proof that that turtle doesn't exist. I'll be waiting...

I mean...it is possible, right? So why not believe in it? You could piss off the mighty turtle and end up in turtle hell...so better believe in him. Do it! DO IT NOW!!

I do realize that now you're gonna say there's no scriptures supporting my claims. Don't worry, I'm working on it...

I think you misinterpreted my post, I don't believe in God.



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