Multi-Layered Personal Armor

reply to post by masonicon



Yeah, I got a question....

Do you have some sort of tank or overflow trap to collect the sweat that's going to be pouring off you?

Originally posted by masonicon

1. The bottom of the layer of the armor set consists Long-sleeved Athletic shirt with Boxer short velcroed to the Sweat-absorbing socks
   
2. Thermal Cooling Suit
   
3. Full-body Titanium Chain-mail Suit with Chain Mail cowl integrated to it
   
4. Head-to-Toe Dragon Skin armor(each single ceramic tiles has protection level beyond Type IV small arms protective insert) in Kevlar laminated with Fireproof Polymer
   
5. Suit of Armor made out of Fairly thick plate of High Quality Steel(kevlar laminated) and Kevlar-laminated Steel Helmet with Plexiglass visor
   

This armour would make any form of tactical movement impossible. There is an ongoing debate within military circles over the compromise between protection and mobility. There will always be a trade off between the two. Higher kinetic protection means heavier weights which means slower movement leading to increased probabability of being hit in the first place. In turn lower protection levels mean faster movement and less chance of being hit in the first place, but less protection if you do.

This all assumes we're talking about purely bullets here. In Afghanistan over 75% of casualties are being caused by IEDs, so fast movement is null and void as you can't outrun a blast wave. So in theory heavier protection is good as it soaks up more damage if a device is detonated. However if you then start to factor in heat, mobility becomes an issue. We then have less mobile soldiers who are going down as heat casualties. And what about the 25% of casualties that are caused by bullets? these soldiers need to be able to move quickly and utilise weapons systems to fight and exploit ground...

The debate is endless.

It's a difficult subject to bring any single answer to.

Oh, by the way I wouldn't be too dependant on the Dragonskin for your armour base layer. It failed the most basic US military tests for NIJ level III armour, with multiple penetrations, often on just the 1st or 2nd round, as well a pathetic high temp durability with discs falling off, rendering the areas affected pretty useless. At the standard test temp of 160F it allowed first shot penetration to all parts of the vest (front, back and both sides).

It also weighed nearly twice as much as an equally sized set of Interceptor (47.5lb vs 28lbs) as well as being thicker by almost a quarter (1.7-1.9" vs

Originally posted by PaddyInf
This armour would make any form of tactical movement impossible.

When you're wearing some bad-ass armor like that, you don't have to move away from the bad guys; the bad guys move away from you!

Originally posted by masonicon
So here are the Layer of the Armor(for fights as one man army):

1. The bottom of the layer of the armor set consists Long-sleeved Athletic shirt with Boxer short velcroed to the Sweat-absorbing socks
   
2. Thermal Cooling Suit
   
3. Full-body Titanium Chain-mail Suit with Chain Mail cowl integrated to it
   
4. Head-to-Toe Dragon Skin armor(each single ceramic tiles has protection level beyond Type IV small arms protective insert) in Kevlar laminated with Fireproof Polymer
   
5. Suit of Armor made out of Fairly thick plate of High Quality Steel(kevlar laminated) and Kevlar-laminated Steel Helmet with Plexiglass visor
   

Any Questions?

[edit on 18-5-2010 by masonicon]

Lets have a breakdown of weight

Dragonskin - 48lb for a vest. Lets be conservative and double it for full body and say 96lb.

A standard weight steel chain mail vest weighed between 12 and 15kg (26-33lb. Again lets double that for a full body and say 60lb. Titanium has a roughly 45% weight reduction over steel, so lets say 33lb.

Suit of armour - Plate steel armour generally weighed about 25kg, so lets say another 55lb.

Thats a total weight of 184lb (about 84kg) give or take.

In Afghanistan I would usually carry aboul 100lb of kit in total. That includes body armour, helmet, rifle plus ammo, pistol plus ammo, ammo for GPMG/LMG, night vision monocular, 5L water, grenades, bayonet, platoon radio plus batteries, personal role radio (PRR) plus batteries, firefly, heli marker panel, GPS, personal med kit, LASM (66mm rocket), arrest kit, mine kit.

Your armour alone weighs nearly double that, and you haven't even started carrying anything yet.

You may as well just dig a hole to fight from.

reply to post by PaddyInf

Because of this reason, Robin, Starfire, Beast Boy, and Raven from Teen Titans animated series; Taichi(Tai), Yamato(Matt), Sora, Mimi, Koushiro(Izzy), Joe, Takeru(T.K.), and Hikari(Kari) from Digimon; Spongebob, Patrick, Sandy, and Squidward from Spongebob Squarepants; Sora, Riku, Kairi, Donald, and Goofy from Kingdom Hearts; Ash Ketchum, Misty, Tracey Sketchit, and Melody from Pokemon are unarmored, however this leaves most(if not all) of them vulnerable to most anti-personnel weapons


[edit on 24/6/2010 by masonicon]

Reply to post by masonicon

how much would be the whole weight of the armor?

how would composite materials hold up?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by masonicon

how much would be the whole weight of the armor?

how would composite materials hold up?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by masonicon
So here are the Layer of the Armor(for fights as one man army):

1. The bottom of the layer of the armor set consists Long-sleeved Athletic shirt with Boxer short velcroed to the Sweat-absorbing socks
   
2. Thermal Cooling Suit
   
3. Full-body Titanium Chain-mail Suit with Chain Mail cowl integrated to it
   
4. Head-to-Toe Dragon Skin armor(each single ceramic tiles has protection level beyond Type IV small arms protective insert) in Kevlar laminated with Fireproof Polymer
   
5. Suit of Armor made out of Fairly thick plate of High Quality Steel(kevlar laminated) and Kevlar-laminated Steel Helmet with Plexiglass visor
   

Any Questions?

A simple 1Kg CO2 fire-extinguisher will see you asphyxiated and entombed in your own armoured coffin

reply to post by masonicon


It also means they are able to move about freely. Load someone up in this armour and you're gonna get them killed. A slow moving target (which this suit will make you) will attract lots of uncoming and take a lot of hits. All that any armour gives you is time. It all fails eventually.

My main point is that anyone wearing this stuff will not be able to perform any sort of useful role, so what's the point?

Well done for trying though. Maybe one of the exoskeletons being developed may be an answer...

reply to post by PaddyInf

Who are they?

reply to post by masonicon


Can you move once all this is on your body?
To much, to heavy, not useful...unless your sitting out in the open and people are taking pot-shoots at you. You know kind of like that guy picking up gold balls at the driving range.

Originally posted by xenocide
as far as powering the suit goes thats fairly easy.. no batteries needed. you could use a hydrogen fuel cell. BUT WAIT HYDROGEN IS DANGEROUS! instead of storing it as a liquid or compressed gas one would store it in a tank with hydrides in it.

great suggestion, anyway

Originally posted by clarknick67

Originally posted by xenocide
as far as powering the suit goes thats fairly easy.. no batteries needed. you could use a hydrogen fuel cell. BUT WAIT HYDROGEN IS DANGEROUS! instead of storing it as a liquid or compressed gas one would store it in a tank with hydrides in it.

great suggestion, anyway

How about Cold Fusion, Zero Point Energy, and other Free Energy sources

Originally posted by PaddyInf
reply to post by masonicon

 

It also means they are able to move about freely. Load someone up in this armour and you're gonna get them killed. A slow moving target (which this suit will make you) will attract lots of uncoming and take a lot of hits. All that any armour gives you is time. It all fails eventually.

My main point is that anyone wearing this stuff will not be able to perform any sort of useful role, so what's the point?

Well done for trying though. Maybe one of the exoskeletons being developed may be an answer...

They are no other than:

mult layerd aromor dragon skin is top secret that i've only seen pictures it withstood a .50 calaber bereta round OMG it is awsome
X3 meow

I chose this topic as my first post because I believe, as I assume the OP does, that we should be doing more to protect ground troops given our current state of technology.

One thing to consider, How would the soldier shed the suit if they fell into deep water? Current issue body armor has a quick release function that works by pulling "rip cords" to break the velcro fasteners so the armor won't drown them.

Great topic, well worth exploring.

How about liquid body armour......

www.baesystems.com...

Sounds a lot more useful than you might think.

reply to post by masonicon


Here's my opinion

1. Proper under armor wear is always a good idea. I don't know how you're going to velcro the boxer shorts to the socks unless they're like women's stockings, though.

2. Not a bad idea, but it means you're going to need some way of cooling the cooling suit. Currently, cooling suits are only used for machine gunners on vehicles, and they hook into the vehicle's air conditioning. Carrying around an air conditioner and it's power source would probably get tiresome.

3. Utterly useless, and in some situations, worse than useless. Chain mail is great stuff against bladed weapons, and the authentic riveted or welded stuff does surprisingly well against arrows, but it makes bullet wounds worse. The steel, or in this case, titanium of the chain mail links is harder than the lead and copper of the bullet hitting it, and when the bullet invariably breaks the link and pushes it forward it will actually help the bullet penetrate body armor and flesh better, as well as being one more piece of shrapnel in the body.

I also think titanium might actually be a worse choice than steel for chain mail. Titanium is stronger than steel per weight, but it's weaker than steel per thickness. For solid plates that isn't a problem. You can get away with a thicker titanium plate for the same protection of steel at a 30-45% weight savings, or make it even thicker for greater protection at the same weight as steel. Chain maile is made of woven links, though, and the thickness of the wire is important. If you have to use a much thicker wire , to get the same flexibility you will need to use a much looser weave. It wouldn't matter too much, though because welded titanium chain mail would be amazing stuff if you had to worry about getting slashed at with a sword or something. But neither titanium nor steel chain mail would do any good against bullets.

4. Dragonscale is decent stuff assuming they fix it's various issues, if a bit over hyped. This part alone will be providing the vast majority of the protection your suit provides. It will be heavy though. If I remember right, the most protective grade of dragon scale armor available to civilians weighs 47 pounds for just the vest. The military grade may weigh even more.

5. This will get heavy fast. An average male has about 1.9 meters^2 of surface area. Every millimeter thickness of steel you put on that will weigh nearly 15 kilograms. (1.9 meters^2 * .001 meters at about 7.87 grams per cubic centimeter for steel). A regular 5.56mm assault rifle round will easily punch through 1/4" steel plate or 6.35mm. A full suit of armor that thick would weigh something like 94 kilograms, far too heavy to lift. And while you'd be practically invincible, if immobile, on a battlefield circa 1860 and earlier, you'd just get shot up where you stood today.

Also a Kevlar laminated steel helmet will only provide level 2 or less protection. Kevlar is stronger than steel, and an all Kevlar composite helmet like the PASGT helmet or it's equivalents around the world aren't even rated at level II, even though many will consistently stop the kind of bullets level II armor is supposed to. Modern helmets use fancy spectra/Dyneema fiber composites and approach level IIIA protection. It's hard to get more protection than that because too much weight on the head gets really uncomfortable.


Here's my suggestion for super body armor:

Get the nicest helmet you can find, get a level 4+ rated vest like the military only version of dragon scale assuming it ever passes muster. Have that cover all the way down to the groin, and wrap around the sides. Get ballistic knee-pads and deltoids covers, and wear sleeves and leggings with about a dozen layers of Kevlar or spectra, to give you full body protection from fragments.

And then be in the mechanized infantry and never get out of the vehicle.

Originally posted by masonicon
So here are the Layer of the Armor(for fights as one man army):

1. The bottom of the layer of the armor set consists Long-sleeved Athletic shirt with Boxer short velcroed to the Sweat-absorbing socks
   
2. Thermal Cooling Suit
   
3. Full-body Titanium Chain-mail Suit with Chain Mail cowl integrated to it
   
4. Head-to-Toe Dragon Skin armor(each single ceramic tiles has protection level beyond Type IV small arms protective insert) in Kevlar laminated with Fireproof Polymer
   
5. Suit of Armor made out of Fairly thick plate of High Quality Steel(kevlar laminated) and Kevlar-laminated Steel Helmet with Plexiglass visor
   

Any Questions?

[edit on 18-5-2010 by masonicon]

This is the most absurd post referring to protecting one from harm that i have seen in a long while. Let me pick this apart one by one since your clearly misguided by either too many movies, television or a combination of both added with gossip you heard from a guy who knew a guy type of 5th party information. If this seems like I'm picking on you...I'm not, I hate because i care

First of all, like previously stated by many such as jaguar who actually has experience with "Real" body armor, heat exhaustion is Always a consideration you can not take lightly (Pun not intended). The amount of crap you would be wearing would wear you down in a new york minute. Have you actually worn a NIJ IV armor before? Their not light by any means, though after awhile you get used to it. Its also a pain on your shoulders especially if you carry more ammo and gear on your torso. Which brings me to the next point, a full body suit is even more heavier and cumbersome. The EOD bomb suits, which I'm very accustomed to due to my past job, are very heavy and not flexible at all. I would never want to go into battle with a suit that makes it near impossible to duck and weave around corners. Hell the back plates on the armor make it really hard to even do a sit up from laying down position.

Then you have to take into consideration the idea of explosives. Even if you did have all that armor, if i set off an IED or VBIED next to your ass...your not going to get back up. Concussions are very rarely portrayed as they should be. Everyone watches movies and assumes a bomb going off behind you is perfectly fine as long as your not being touched by the flames...the fact of the matter is the concussion from a blast can actually kill you if your close enough.

Next brings up the point of the full body titanium chain mail....lol im sorry but i had to laugh at this one. Which wars in the past 100 years have you seen where everyone brings only a sword or axe to battle? I would really like to know this one. Then you go on to say a chain mail coil....how will this stop a bullet from blowing your noggin all over god's green earth? I know in the next part you talk about dragonscale from head to toe....but as far as i have seen, nobody has made a "Head Armor" so to speak with dragonscale...even if they did it would still have to have a limited vision visor made of bullet proof glass to be effective. That would also reduce your combat effectiveness by limiting your vision.

The rest i wont even elaborate on since its just ridiculous for a full body suit on top of a full body suit on top of a full body suit....and you never thought about the climate...what if its cold, what if its extremely humid, or even a dry heat...or your gear loadout, and how agile you will be with everything on, could you even look down your scope or iron sights or are you blind firing like the goven-ator Arnold Schwarzenegger does in all of his movies?

Again...people need to think more logically in terms of how an Actual human being operates and not what video games or movies say a person can do. Just my 2 cents

P.S. My sources come from me...and my "Very real life" experiences

Originally posted by justwokeup
How about liquid body armour......

www.baesystems.com...

Sounds a lot more useful than you might think.

How about Liquid Body armor used in Head-to-Toe armor in place of any cumbersome metal and ceramic platings?