OILPOCALYPSE!? (lets get real)

Originally posted by insideNSA
Ok IgnoranceISBliss, you've forced me to do this. You can't admit you are wrong about this thing not being that bad. So let me go through and point out your mistakes.

Hey no matter how flawed your arguments may or may not be, and no matter how nasty and venomous, and so on...

I'm proud of you that you finally figured out how to use the quote brackets function

Next you might start using the 'external link' function which is actually easier to type and makes your posts look spiffier...

But first let me ask you again, if what you say is true, its not so bad, WHY IS THERE CURRENTLY A MEDIA BLACKOUT

You're just baiting. But why do I keep seeing Youtube clips of MSM reports calling it "doomsday", "extinction level event', etc? How can that be if there's a blackout?

Next we have the idea of this leak being unprecedented, which is false

WRONG: This is being characterized as the worse manmade disaster in the country's history. I think its safe to say this event is unprecedented. Though as dumb as you are, you'll claim its not by some strange unknown logic that you use.

"Characterized"? Are "blackout" media characterizations proof of anything?

Ok, so it IS unprecedented in US history... but if we're to stick to that logic then that would be like saying the deindustrialization of Detroit is some new unprecidented thing, when it's happened before all over the world and to nearly entire nations even.

Next you compare this spill to the Ixtox I event in 1979. So I looked at the Wiki link you provided... I don't know why you would even compare this oil volcano to that! From the wiki article, YOUR SOURCE

Ixtoc I was an exploratory oil well being drilled by the semi-submersible platform Sedco 135-F in the Bay of Campeche of the Gulf of Mexico, about 100 km (62 mi) northwest of Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche in waters 50 m (160 ft) deep

THEY WERE ONLY DRILLING IN 160FT of water, where people and divers can work on the well. This is in no way shape or form similar to the Deepwater Horizon well, in which they were drilling in over 5000ft of water, where people cannot operate in. Only robots and submersables. Not even submarines, which makes it a bit difficult to do anything.

That wasn't the point. You're doing a play on words. The depth is the only real difference, or at least for the time being so is the duration. The type of event, and virtually all of its other characteristics are the same.

Don't forget that tanker ship that crashed in Texas during the event, where the Ixtoc oil was headed.

Also the difference in pressure between 160ft and 5000+ft is orders of magnitude apart. So you were trying to compare a shallow water low pressure well to a high pressure deep well.

Do you have some data you'd like to present that shows the Ixtoc to have been a "low pressure" well?

Its almost laughable when you claim 19000 bpd. I asked you to show me where you go that lowball number. LOLOLOL you said from some commision Obama put together.

Here:

WASHINGTON - Between 12,000 and 19,000 barrels of oil per day are spilling into the Gulf of Mexico from the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, according to the best estimates of a federal technical group led by Marcia McNutt, the director of the U.S. Geological Survey.

That rate would mean that the spill, which followed the blow out at the well April 20, had released between 432,000 and 684,000 barrels of oil into the Gulf to date. That translates into between 18 and 28 million gallons of oil, making this spill by far the worst in American history, far surpassing the Exxon Valdez disaster, which dumped 11 million gallons into the waters off Alaska.
www.nola.com... html

AND if you researched any further you would see this same group complained that Obama DID NOT take their real estimate, but an extremely low bogus one. This same group came out in the news with this.

Link, please. Talk is cheap.

Ultimately, 71,500 barrels of oil impacted 162 miles of U.S. beaches, and over 10,000 cubic yards of oiled material were removed.

Its closer to 100,000 bpd, so each day this disaster is greater than the Ixtoc disaster was as a whole.

Youre going out of context here again, actually with ALL of this!

Youre twisting the debate into how much oil has impacted the US in particular. The premise of my entire thread is that the WORLD has seen worse (Persian Gulf, no way you can get around that period), yet the world didnt end.

YOU SAID

The pipe size of the Deepwater Horizon leak is 20". Somehow we're supposed to believe that 100,000 barrels per day are blasting out of that pipe. Anyone care to do that math for us?

Um, me asking for math doesn't make me wrong about anything whatsoever.

sure, we'll do the math

Gulf oil spill may top 100,000 barrels a day

from the article:

“In the data I’ve seen, there’s nothing inconsistent with BP’s worst case scenario,” he added in comments to McClatchy newspapers, stating that the previous 12,000 to 25,000 barrels a day estimate had simply been the “lower bound” estimate

Ok, that is news to me... Note that all I ever did was mention their estimate, and asked for flaws in their methodology. That doesn't make ME wrong about anything.

Also note that the issue with that new "worst case scenario" is that is now AFTER they recently cut off the BOP.

A volcano of oil erupting

So supposedly BP assured congress 165,000 bpd wouldn't reach land, and that means that it actually wouldn't? Who in the entire universe would even believe that? I'm compelled to disregard that entire article, on the premise of absurdity. If you know of proof of what that guy is saying (he didn't provide links to congressional testimony or anything), then we might talk about it. But it sounds more absurd than some layman making oilpocalypse statements based on ignorance.

I could find you another 20 articles that agree this thing is 100,000+ a day.

So are they going to be "educated guesses", or is there going to be some degree of scientific methodology we'll be able to assess? I know loam did a thread attempting to show 350,000+ bpd per day and his methodology failed miserably.

So lets see. IgnoranceIsBliss is WRONG AGAIN.

What am I wrong about? Just because I'm skepitcal of alarmist claims doesn't mean you've busted me. In fact even if they did get a solid measurement that shows 1,000,000 bpd how does that make me wrong. Questioning claims doesn't make you wrong.

Furthermore, the point of ALL of this thread was supposed to be about the end of the world. How do you keep forgetting this?

Ok then you go on to lowball the Chernobyl disaster to show how people overestimate doom! Buddy that was a bad choice. I work with a lot of Russians and to be frank, there were hundreds of thousands of people who got cancer from that. Again you are quoting gov't propaganda again! Russian gov't sources, even worse! You must check your sources instead of quoting intentional lowball figures.

Those numbers are from a UN study. The UN: the chieftains of environmental fearmongering.

I have no idea where you heard that one. I guess you wanted to throw in a crazy impossible scenario for good measure. Afterall you did throw in Chernobyl.

I know you don't like to read entire threads before taking a strong stance on them, but try reading the thread you've carried this pissing match over into.

I dont' think the worst disaster in US history is overblowing whats is currently going on.

So if the US ends, is it the end of the entire world? Do yourself a favor, and read this real good and several times over:
www.logicalfallacies.info...

You compare the spill to:
Ixtoc I and other similar SPILLs, which I shown above is not a good comparison. For this is a DEEP WATER volcano that cannot be stopped by conventional methods.

The part your genius brain is missing with the depth issue is that it actually helps to break the oil up, which is good. Now if theyd only put a stop to that damn thing...

Then you talk about how your aunt survived a hurricane?!?

Actually it was my mom and my brothers. I was even on the phone with her for a good while until the lines were down. The eyewall was REAL close to them, and she only lost one window.

The point of it was, that where the eyewall hits that gets the damage the rest of the nation sees on TV. Just because the entire storm looks huge on radar, bigger than the state even, doesn't mean total destruction across the entire FL peninsula. Twisting words again I see.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by insideNSA
So i'm still waiting buddy

And by the way check out the levels of Hydrogen Sulfide, Benzene, Methylene Chloride, and other toxic gases in the atmosphere.

They are WAY above normal in the gulf area. The air is starting to be poisoned. NOT GOOD. Evacuations may be on the way. Go tell those who have to evacuate that its safe for them to stay.

On May 14 WWLTV in New Orleans ran a report on the levels of Hydrogen Sulfide and Benzene in the air at that time. 5-10 parts per billion is the established allowable amount for Hydrogen Sulfide. WWLTV reported that on May 3 the level was recorded at 1,192 ppb.Pastor Williams said his sources report the level detected in the Gulf at 1,200 ppb and the amount poses a serious and even fatal health risk. ...

researchris.blogspot.com... ases-in-gulf-back.html

But is it the END OF THE WORLD??? How many times do I have to ask you this?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by insideNSA
So i'm still waiting buddy

researchris.blogspot.com... ases-in-gulf-back.html

But is it the END OF THE WORLD??? How many times do I have to ask you this?

Wow, you've come down considerably from your initial optimism/propaganda, IgnoranceIsntBliss. I'm starting to find you more amusing than irritating...how'd it work out for you - did you get enough time to short/invest/short/invest and get the he]] out of the market yet?

reply to post by ChrisCrikey


Well I'm sorry that you were irritated hearing me say that it wasn't the end of the world.

It'd be nice if I had money like that. My industry has been one of the hardest hit by the economic meltdown. I'm the last employee where I work actually, and times haven't gotten any better.

If you knew how I live, especially if you're an environmentalist, you'd have utmost respect for me.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

No, I have been irritated to hear your non stop campaign going on months now to say that this oil disaster is no big deal. I really don't get where you are coming from but empathize with your career and financial situation. The truth is just about anyone invested in mutual funds is heavily invested in oil whether they know it or not.Many of us are going to take a financial hit from this - some more so than others but sadly too many people will profit from this disaster....the same ole bunch.

Again, I'm grieving deeply over this on-going event and fear the repercussions and continuing instability will be far greater than you seem willing to discuss or entertain....and you're so dismissive of other people's concerns and areas of expertise. You clearly have a great deal of expertise in presentations and media. You're not getting lazy on us now, are you? How about some more charts and illustrations to prove you points...oops, I see you're started a whole new thread just as dismissive as this.

reply to post by ChrisCrikey


Ok, respond to it then, the data that is.

The FACT is the products we make from oil are thousands of times worse for the environment, and last thousands of times longer after they all meet their garbage destiny.

One could argue its like the ultimate most extremely cynical version of dark humor poetic justice, so sinister, and insidious, that only a few people have even caught the 'joke'. Yeah, I'm a dark bastard, I know. But at least I let you all in on "the joke".

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
You clearly have a great deal of expertise in presentations and media. You're not getting lazy on us now, are you?

Thanks. It's not even what i do for a living. You should check out my videos. They have absolutely nothing to do with the environment or any of this.

[edit on 15-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

IgnoranceISBliss talk about flawed logic! You ask how is there a media blackout?!? Simple, they aren't allowing the media near the spill to report on it!!!! EVEN AL GORE MENTIONED THIS YESTERDAY!!!

It has been agreed by everyone who participates in your threads that you should politely refrain from ever posting your nonsense on ATS ever again. We feel belowtopsecret is a more suitable forum for a person of your intelligence level.

Anyway I am super busy with important signal processing work. I will enjoy shooting down your flawed logic yet again. Problem is I present facts and then you just don't get it. Like this media blackout thing, which is in fact a widely known fact. Everyone seems to acknowledge this but you.

I'm just using this as an example for starters. Its very hard pounding you into submission post after post. Do you really believe yourself? I"m starting to think you don't and you are posting losing arguments purposely!

As I said and promise, I will shoot you down yet again later, stay tuned

Why are government officials still blocking journalists from documenting the Gulf oil spill? What are they hiding, and why is Obama letting it happen?

CBS, CNN, the New York Times — these are not fringe media outlets. And when Anderson Cooper and Katie Couric complain about press barricades, you know that not only is the rumored media blackout very real, but it is clearly also very serious:

When reports started trickling in a month ago about journalists being prevented from documenting the oil spill by BP contractors and Coast Guard officials, myself and others wrote somewhat incendiary articles about the implied collusion between government officials and BP in keeping the real scope and impact of the oil spill hidden from the American public.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by insideNSA]

Originally posted by insideNSA
IgnoranceISBliss talk about flawed logic! You ask how is there a media blackout?!? Simple, they aren't allowing the media near the spill to report on it!!!! EVEN AL GORE MENTIONED THIS YESTERDAY!!!

Actually you brought it up, when it has nothing to do with the topic whatsoever. You trying to win this debate with this non issue is known as a Straw Man. You clearly haven't read the fallacy lists.

It has been agreed by everyone who participates in your threads that you should politely refrain from ever posting your nonsense on ATS ever again. We feel belowtopsecret is a more suitable forum for a person of your intelligence level.

It has? Where, and when did the meeting take place to reach this consensus?

I will enjoy shooting down your flawed logic yet again.

Be sure and respond directly to all of my responses to your so-called rebuttal, and don't forget to read up on that Logical Fallacy List.

Its very hard pounding you into submission post after post. Do you really believe yourself?

Wow are you deluded. Are you going for the 2010 Darwin Award or what?



[edit on 16-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

hmmm... I see the oil is washing up on florida beaches. seen any yet?

I"ve decided you spue so much BS that I will take your BS one at a time and explain how your BP propanganda info is dead wrong.

btw, i c in the earlier post you called me a liberal or somethign along those lines. just to let you know, i'm a registered independent who has voted conservative 100% of the time. and i hate tree huggers.

anyway i'm glad you try to reason this isn't that bad

i think everyone but YOU thinks that it is bad.

for someone who says to go look up this or that about debating... you need to take your own advice! you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Would you guys actually like to debate my talking points? I'm always looking for a better understanding.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Uhhh we constantly debate your talking points. either you can't read or you are full of s#$t.

is this the best you can do when you debate? lie?

i went down talking point by talking poing on your other lame a$$ thread...oilapocolypse.

then you conveniently overlook some of my replies that plainly discredits your BP propaganda talking points and act like you didnt' read the others.

i see a pattern here. i see that is your only defense claiming no one responds to your bs when they do.

i bet you are a fine human being in person!
(imagine nerd in his mother's basement in florida with buck teeth)

reply to post by insideNSA


Damn, yo. I thought my first stalker (you) had finally given up.

"Lie"

You don't even get Debate 101, not even 001. The debate is I start a thread with a set of talking points. Then you assess my claims for potential fallacies, and assess my evidence for any major flaws. You can't seem to do either. Then you're supposed to bring in citations etc to back up your counter-arguments. From my recollection, you haven't actually brought in citations that refute any of my claims or evidence. You keep telling me I'm wrong, and I ask you to quote me of what I'm wrong about, and then provide your counter-arguments & evidence. So far your counter-arguments haven't actually been in direct refutation to anything I've actually said.

Nor have you been able to quote me and point out obvious or even subtle fallacies, while I have been able to with you without even trying or even having time to point them all out as there are so many.

The way it works is I start the thread and pose my assertions and evidence, which fulfills my need to satisfy the burden of proof. (My assertions at this juncture being that oil isn't going to make the world end.) Actually, when you claim the world is going to end, the burden of proof is on you prove it. It's like I'm bending over backwards here.

Then you're supposed to prove me wrong... rather than just flat out declare victory, via usage of fallacies (in particular Straw Man arguments), which you keep doing.

I mean I understand if you're only 16 y/o, and stuff, but I'm really trying to help you here, little buddy.

[edit on 24-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

i have already gone through your lame thread point by point and shot you down about 10 times over already. obviously you haven't read my posts.

its just lucky for you I don't tear you a new one, as I have been working a double load at work.... if you haven't already figured out, there is more going on in this world than me having to put you over my knee and spank you in front of all on ATS, which I admit, is fun to do, but getting old. we have some problems to the north of Iran and I have been forced to work OT and not able to thoroughly whoop you into submission for an 11th time.

in fact i love arguing with guys like you.

you are a typical person with average intelligence who sees them self as having above average intelligence... u think are educating the masses when in reality you are just showing your ignorance.

you started a thread that is obviously been proven wrong 10 times over by not just me but many. you claim, living in florida that this isn't that bad. well how is that methane air treating you? how are the oil blobs washing up on the beach treating you. buddy you are in the crosshairs of this thing but your 80 IQ arrogance on display clearly shows that you can't admit that 'THIS IS BAD'

ok lets make this simple, answer honestly:

1. wasn't the premise of your original post that 'this isn't that bad'?

YES OR NO

2. do you agree now that "IT IS THAT BAD"?

actually i pity you. you think you are something special when really you are just another useless eater.


i on the other hand have a clearance so high that you aren't even privy to know what that clearance is. i do REAL work. important work. and i get paid about 8 times the average household income.

how much are do you get paid for your failed film projects?

here is advice for you. admit you are wrong then attempt to do a documentary on the effects of the oil volcano on florida. i think it would do your soul some good

The people saying this isn't bad should stop taking drugs imo...

Originally posted by insideNSA
i have already gone through your lame thread point by point and shot you down about 10 times over already. obviously you haven't read my posts.

Yeah, in ONE SINGLE post you attempted to quote me, and even attempted to bring in some citations. That was also one of the only times your trolling had you not look like a teeny bopper with 5th grade level writing skills. Your quote? Irrelevant, which is funny because it took you something like a week to muster that response up. Most importantly, you cannot quote me as saying the disaster "isnt that bad". I've never said it, meaning your persistent repetitive stalker like trolling has you putting words into my mouth over and over again with my challenging you quote me as saying that.

If you your brain were above the writing level you keep displaying you might actually realize how silly your trolling efforts look. I doubt you could get even people on your side to say that you aren't a troll.

I'm foggy as to what level of security clearance the military would give to a silly, irrational, out of touch with reality n00b such as yourself. That's a scary thought. Whatever they have you doing, I'm confident you are over paid but then again what slacker government employees arent overpaid?

But since you're apparently now the expert on Iran and American Foreign Policy, and are a self-proclaimed master debater, who enjoys bumping my threads, I'd love to see you come 'spank me' in some of my foreign policy threads:

Open Challenge: When has Obama said "American Empire"?

Insanity via the Iranian "threat".

Name the last war fought for YOUR freedoms!

The Media is Pro-Military-Imperialism Biased

America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++

You Be The Judge: Iran Fascist Superpower

Al Qaeda: "The CI-A Team"

"Freedom" = Imperialism: It's in the Language

The funny thing is you appeared to have believed I'd be all impressed and wooed about you having some military clearance.

And talking big grown up talk like bending me over you knee and spanking me actually makes you sounds even more childish than a 16 y/o.

Good times. Thanks for bumping my thread again, you little troll.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss



i never laughed so hard. your response... predictable and priceless. thank you my friend for making my day. more spanking to come little boy.

and you are wrong... i'm in the 4th grade, not the 5th



yours truly,
4th grader

edit to add laughter

[edit on 26-6-2010 by insideNSA]

reply to post by insideNSA








[edit on 26-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

i can't see any video content at work. i'm really in the mood for another round of slapping you around again. when i get home i'll check out whatever lame videos you posted above.

ok its day 70 and i think we can all agree that your OP is laughable.

question will you be able to post after mandatory evacuations occur for florida? i truly hope so. i know its a guilty pleasure but making fools of those with less mental horsepower can be quite fun. so i feel like i owe you for all the entertainment you have provided with you posts which are so illogical, its better than watching standup comedy.

OILAPOCALYSE this surely is! so lets see, anything you say is true is false and vice versa. i may ask you for stock tips if you don't mind



reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

also i noticed you are trying to change the topic.
pointing me to your other lame threads are we.

lets stay on topic here. you submitted that 'this isn't that bad'

and you never answered my questions above. you see you totally lost this debate so you change the topic of discussion. c'mon, i know even you are capable of better diversionary tactics than that!

so i ask again... its simple really

quoting my unanswered questions:

ok lets make this simple, answer honestly:

1. wasn't the premise of your original post that 'this isn't that bad'?

YES OR NO

2. do you agree now that "IT IS THAT BAD"?



[edit on 30-6-2010 by insideNSA]

1. wasn't the premise of your original post that 'this isn't that bad'?

yes, actually i am well versed in foreign affairs. but from an intel perspective, not a 'state department' perspective which usually f#$k everything up because A. they are dumb B. they aren't privy to all the information. but its a chicken and egg problem, they are not to be trusted with all the goodies so yes it is part and parcel to their bad decision making but also it has been determined that even with 100% of the information bad policy would be instantiated anyway!

BUT LETS NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT. FIRST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ABOVE. IF I FIND YOUR ANSWERS SATISFACTORY THEN YES, I WILL GO TO YOUR OTHER THREADS AND POINT OUT ALL OF YOUR MISTAKES.
woah, you are asking alot.