Western Women's right [THE TRUTH]

Originally posted by SiKFury
I agree OP this is horrible. We should have sharia law and maybe go a bit north east to the forced abortion of femals in china. Thattl show them westerners how to really treat a women.

The statistics already shows how Women are treated, I didn't say it.

Although you say you have women's right, and you want to protect women's right, I see no results.

reply to post by oozyism


Yeah I have heard its just lovely, public executions, beheadings, women being flogged, raped, beaten and sent to jail for little more than being seen in a cafe along with a man they are not related to or married to.

Its backward. I haven't been there because I have never had any wish to go there, why would I want to visit a country that treats its women like crap? Why the hell would I want to be somewhere where I am told where I can and cannot go, what I can and cannot wear, who I can and cannot speak to.

No chance!

You lady, are talking crap, IMO

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

Yeah I have heard its just lovely, public executions, beheadings, women being flogged, raped, beaten and sent to jail for little more than being seen in a cafe along with a man they are not related to or married to.

What, which movie did you watch recently lol.

Have you seen someone's hand get chopped off with a machete? I have. No not in Saudi Arabia, here in New Zealand. No not by the government, but by a gang-member. I rather see those kind of acts happen in controlled environment, rather than some random violent person, like it happens daily in the US. ALL of those things you mentioned is well present in the US.

Its backward. I haven't been there because I have never had any wish to go there, why would I want to visit a country that treats its women like crap?

If you haven't been there then how do you know? Movies?

Why the hell would I want to be somewhere where I am told where I can and cannot go, what I can and cannot wear, who I can and cannot speak to.

Isn't that the same everywhere? Ohh too many movies get to you. Let me explain, you can't run around naked here in NZ, you will probably get a good beating from the cop and then taken to the station. You are being told what to wear.

It is all the same, but with very few differences which the media has made it look distasteful.


If the media had a mission to spread the same distaste against Western countries, it could, and that distaste would stay in you. It is called brainwashing.

I have been to Saudi Arabia, you haven't, I talk about first hand experience.

You lady, are talking crap, IMO

OK..

THREAD NOTICE.

Alright. As is always the case with cultural differences, human rights, gender issues, and other social matters, this is a sensitive topic that calls for maturity.

By all means, please feel encouraged to be passionate in your stance. However, refrain from attacking other members by remembering that Courtesy is Mandatory and ATS' golden rule to debate the post and not the poster.

Focus on the facts, information, and claims. Not each other.

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Thank you.

reply to post by oozyism


[SNIP]You keep pushing this "What is women's rights?" "What does it mean?" In the west it means that women don't have to live in fear of being oppressed by men. In those places I mentioned the woman there don't have those protections in place....

[SNIP] indoctrinated into thinking that the west is a hellish place for women to be in, when in fact I've yet to hear of a Western woman seeking refuge in an Islamic state for fear of persecution but I've heard plenty of stories of women from non-western countries coming over to the west for exactly that reason.......

To imply that Islam is a bastion of womens rights is quite frankly the stupidist thing I've heard all day. I feel sorry for you because you must have never tasted freedom to think this way..........



Mod edit: Removed personal comments. Please see staff notice above as it was posted at the same time of this member post.

[edit on 5/14/2010 by AshleyD]

reply to post by strangleholder1

"What is women's rights?" "What does it mean?" In the west it means that women don't have to live in fear of being oppressed by men. In those places I mentioned the woman there don't have those protections in place....

OK we are getting closer and closer.

So it is the belief that women don't have to live in fear of being oppressed by men. Now look at those statistics, and tell me, are women living in fear?

From those statistics I can tell the fears of women, they fear relationships (fear of having an abusive partner), they fear walking around alone, due to rape, at least in the wrong neighborhoods.

You! are the one that is indoctrinated into thinking that the west is a hellish place for women to be in, when in fact I've yet to hear of a Western woman seeking refuge in an Islamic state for fear of persecution but I've heard plenty of stories of women from non-western countries coming over to the west for exactly that reason.......

That is where our differences comes to light.


Yes people get brainwashed easily these days, the media has its ways. I have experience this in daily bases. Isn't that the what we are discussing? Brainwashing in order to make people think America is heaven for women? While statistics shows a complete different picture?

To imply that Islam is a bastion of womens rights is quite frankly the stupidist thing I've heard all day. I feel sorry for you because you must have never tasted freedom to think this

Umm what is the maximum freedom you had? Since I lived in New Zealand I even had a threesome, that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Are you free and happy? I have seen very very happy women in Saudi Arabia. I have seen very very happy women in Western nations.

I have seen very very sad people in Saudi Arabia, and I have seen the same in Western countries.

So what is the purpose of everything we are speaking of?

reply to post by oozyism


No I haven't got my information on Saudi Arabia from 'movies' as you put it.

I've heard about Saudi Arabia from news sources over the years, from accounts documented from Saudi Arabian women in books and newspapers, and from Amnesty International Reports.

Google it if you dont believe me. I haven't the energy to start posting links etc and I dont think there is any point, I think you probably already know what Ive said to be true so why should I waste my time any longer.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by FortAnthem



So you're saying that a bunch of crimes comitted by individuals somehow makes the entire Republic of the United States hypocritical.


If it was the US government comitting those crimes you might have a case. If the government looked the other way and didn't prosecute those crimes, you might have a case.


The US keeps track of these statistics because they pursue and prosecute the offenders of all of those crimes.


This thread= EPIC FAIL!!!

Nope I am talking about women's situation on Western countries. They are treated like crap, as the statistics show.

Don't you get the point of the thread?

What is the point of having women's rights with that type of statistics?

Even Saudi Arabian women are doing much better, and living in a better condition and environment than the US.

Don't jump to conclusions so quick

In Saudi you would have been killed for making this thread, that is if the husband that your father beat you until you married allowed you to touch a computer.

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by oozyism

 

No I haven't got my information on Saudi Arabia from 'movies' as you put it.

I've heard about Saudi Arabia from news sources over the years, from accounts documented from Saudi Arabian women in books and newspapers, and from Amnesty International Reports.

Google it if you dont believe me. I haven't the energy to start posting links etc and I dont think there is any point, I think you probably already know what Ive said to be true so why should I waste my time any longer.

If you haven't lived in Saudi Arabia, how do you say they are treated the way you think they are treated? And all the books which you read, the reports which you read, what are the perspectives of these reports and findings? Aren't they Western, so then aren't they Western propaganda?

Once again, since it seems you are confused once more I will explain:

The point of this thread is to show that although Western countries boast about their Human Rights, the statistics shows that women are not being protected. The soul purpose of HR is to protect women, and as we see, they are not being protected, they are exposed and vulnerable..

I won't deny the fact that the law supposedly protects them, but the law is an illusion, if no one follows the law then how can you even make that claim? The statistics shows they are not being protected, they are abused, they are raped, they left by themselves to take care of the children, and have 2 separate jobs at the same time to keep the family alive financially etc etc

So seriously, how are women being protected?

reply to post by js331975

In Saudi you would have been killed for making this thread, that is if the husband that your father beat you until you married allowed you to touch a computer.

The amount of stars this post received clearly shows the extent to which ATS has been brainwashed.

Based on what information do you make this claim?

It seems the truth hurts individuals such as you, but it doesn't have to hurt if you keep living in a dream, wait I mean American dream. *PINCH*

reply to post by oozyism


You've had a threesome lol! if that's what freedom means to you then you have been mis-sold it. Sex is part of life, here's a secret.....everyones having it......you don't have to go all the way to NZ for it....its widely available everywhere....To liken it to freedom is laughable, in the west its just a way of life.......

Originally posted by strangleholder1
reply to post by oozyism

 

You've had a threesome lol! if that's what freedom means to you then you have been mis-sold it. Sex is part of life, here's a secret.....everyones having it......you don't have to go all the way to NZ for it....its widely available everywhere....To liken it to freedom is laughable, in the west its just a way of life.......

Umm what is the maximum freedom you had? Since I lived in New Zealand I even had a threesome, that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Are you free and happy? I have seen very very happy women in Saudi Arabia. I have seen very very happy women in Western nations.

I have seen very very sad people in Saudi Arabia, and I have seen the same in Western countries.

So what is the purpose of everything we are speaking of?

I have done alot of things since I came here, but my point is, what do you base freedom upon?

What is freedom?

What is the purpose of freedom?

Is freedom suppose be likable or not?

Is freedom worth having?

Is freedom b;lablablabalba

you are wasting my time..

Umm what is the maximum freedom you had? Since I lived in New Zealand I even had a threesome, that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Maximum freedom lol! you can't put a scale on freedom, you either are or you aren't free, the fact that you claim to have had more freedom than me without even knowing me is really silly of you. You have yet to put together some sort of decent counter-argument to my original replies, its getting dull now..........

[edit on 14-5-2010 by strangleholder1]

If you haven't lived in Saudi Arabia, how do you say they are treated the way you think they are treated? And all the books which you read, the reports which you read, what are the perspectives of these reports and findings? Aren't they Western, so then aren't they Western propaganda?

Once again, since it seems you are confused once more I will explain:

The point of this thread is to show that although Western countries boast about their Human Rights, the statistics shows that women are not being protected. The soul purpose of HR is to protect women, and as we see, they are not being protected, they are exposed and vulnerable..

I won't deny the fact that the law supposedly protects them, but the law is an illusion, if no one follows the law then how can you even make that claim? The statistics shows they are not being protected, they are abused, they are raped, they left by themselves to take care of the children, and have 2 separate jobs at the same time to keep the family alive financially etc etc

So seriously, how are women being protected?

Honestly

I haven't lived in the Arctic regions of Greenland but I can still fathom what it would be like to live as an Inuit. Just because you haven't lived somewhere does not mean that you would'nt be able to comprehend what it may be like.

and yes I am confused, confused as to how you may think I have came up with this perception of Saudi Arabia as a result of 'western Propaganda'. How is documented first-hand accounts from Saudi Arabian women 'western Propaganda'?

Western women are protected a damn sight more than Saudi women. I am not 'exposed and vulnerable' I would take offence to being called so, I also have plenty of human rights, the ones which you claim are elusive to western women.

How is the law an 'illusion'? I know if i were attacked right this minute by a man, you could be pretty sure that the cops coming to arrest him and lock him up would not be an illusion.

I have done alot of things since I came here, but my point is, what do you base freedom upon?
]

I thought your point was about women's rights lol! you are terrible at making threads

Originally posted by strangleholder1
Umm what is the maximum freedom you had? Since I lived in New Zealand I even had a threesome, that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Are you free and happy?

Maximum freedom lol! you can't put a scale on freedom, you either are or you aren't free, the fact that you claim to have had more freedom than me without even knowing me is really silly of you. You have yet to put together some sort of decent counter-argument to my original replies, its getting dull now..........

That was sarcasm omg lol

That is why I asked you what freedom is, can you measure it blablabla

Now that we have come to that point where you finally answer the question:

you can't put a scale on freedom, you either are or you aren't free

Let's continue:

What makes American women free>?

You are either free or not, that is black and white, so there must specific characteristics which makes a country, or a person, free.

Now describe that to us..

And you still haven't countered my original point:

Women's Right is suppose to protect Women, so why isn't women being protected in the US as the statistics shows?

Originally posted by strangleholder1



I thought your point was about women's rights lol! you are terrible at making threads

zzz don't waste my time, seriously are you gonna go down that far, you know that was the point of my freakin post in reply to your post. Not the point of the thread.

I will just post !!!!!!!!!TROLL ALERT!!!!!!! and leave it at that..

GOOD DAY TO YOU, if it is night over your place, GOOD NIGHT TO YOU..

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

I haven't lived in the Arctic regions of Greenland but I can still fathom what it would be like to live as an Inuit. Just because you haven't lived somewhere does not mean that you would'nt be able to comprehend what it may be like.

Yes it does mean you wouldn't be able to comprehend especially when propaganda and brainwashing is floating around.

and yes I am confused, confused as to how you may think I have came up with this perception of Saudi Arabia as a result of 'western Propaganda'. How is documented first-hand accounts from Saudi Arabian women 'western Propaganda'?

OK that is the beauty of Propaganda, you don't think anything is wrong with what is being presented to you.

Hence if I take an account of an African America who is taking care of 3 kids by herself, juggling motherhood and 2 jobs for financial assistance, while at the same time taking prostitution for some extra $ to put a roof over her kids.. Her partner leave her before the 3rd baby was born, portraying American men and the American government as heartless bastards who does not give a damn about women. Forgetting about everything else which exists in that society, and judging the society souly based on these types of occurrences. And then I generalize this, and make it seem as if you will end up living in those conditions, that is propaganda.

Western women are protected a damn sight more than Saudi women. I am not 'exposed and vulnerable' I would take offence to being called so, I also have plenty of human rights, the ones which you claim are elusive to western women.

zzz Yes those girls who got abused, raped, and left all by themselves also thought they were protected, they are merely numbers now. Plus I never said everyone in the US will end up like these numbers, no that is not true, that is far from true, many Americans are protected, very well indeed, but many are not, that is what you shouldn't forget.

How is the law an 'illusion'? I know if i were attacked right this minute by a man, you could be pretty sure that the cops coming to arrest him and lock him up would not be an illusion.

But that still means you ain't protected? Am I right? If the cops comes late?

If the suspect gets away?

And what if you are in a date? And the date turns on you?

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by strangleholder1
Umm what is the maximum freedom you had? Since I lived in New Zealand I even had a threesome, that being said I have enjoyed more freedom than you? But is that good? What do you base freedom upon?

Maximum freedom lol! you can't put a scale on freedom, you either are or you aren't free, the fact that you claim to have had more freedom than me without even knowing me is really silly of you. You have yet to put together some sort of decent counter-argument to my original replies, its getting dull now..........

That was sarcasm omg lol

Just to let you know that SO! wasn't sarcasm on your part Rotflmao!

Now that we have come to that point where you finally answer the question:

You are either free or not, that is black and white, so there must specific characteristics which makes a country, or a person, free.

Now describe that to us..

Will do, human rights! thats what makes a country free, a pursuit of human rights.....
On a personal level IF! a person is afforded freedom by the country they live in then they can choose to live freely. This does not rule out dumb luck or bad choices made by said person that end up removing their freedom. In places like the middle east, regardless of how free the woman wants to be, she is bound by what the region allows....which is practically nothing in the way of freedom.....Its Answered!

To take a few statistics from America to prove that because people commit murder and rape the US is somehow not giving its women rights, goes beyond any search for truth. And for the record have you checked the middle easts rape statistics from a reputable souce (something like Amnesty for example) I think you will find that in all countries (including NZ) rapes and murders happen all the time. The difference is if it occurs in the west, every effort will be done by law enforcement to catch the people responsible. In the mid east the woman would be silenced before it got to the police. At this point even a child could see how wrong you are.....

[edit on 14-5-2010 by strangleholder1]

Originally posted by oozyism
The point of this thread is to show that although Western countries boast about their Human Rights, the statistics shows that women are not being protected. The soul purpose of HR is to protect women, and as we see, they are not being protected, they are exposed and vulnerable..

At some point people need to take responsibility for their own protection, they cannot rely on the state to babysit them 24/ 7.

You seem to be mixing up the concept of freedom with safety.

Wasn't it one of the founding fathers of America who said something to the effect of: Those who cherish safety over freedom deserve neither?