Why is the 33rd degree the highest observed Masonic level?

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
I am interested in becoming a mason, so if you all are really "Masons", I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. My neighbor is a Lodge Leader at the lodge in my town (Lake Geneva, Wisconsin). I know that Masons have funky rules on how to be accepted. Like how you HAVE TO BE INVITED, but you must "show" a Mason that you are interested. Can you give me some ideas on how to confront my neighbor, but not do it in a disrespectful way that would make him not see me as "worthy"? Remember, I am a younger man and he is an elderly man haha.

You aren't invited, you have to ask to join. I'd talk to your neighbor and tell him you're interested. He'll probably invite you to dinner at the lodge where you can meet some of the other members. Seems like the best bet is to ask your neighbor to sign your petition and vouch for you.

2. The Christianity part. About how that one guy said hell no he wasnt a Christian and that he'd never be a Christian. And then someone said that he'd go "far"? Can someone explain that to me?? I find that very intirgueing, and very against what people are saying when they align Christianity and Masonry.

Masonry is not a religion, but only accepts members who believe in God, the creator. What you call God, and how you choose to worship him is up to you, and you will not be judged (nor asked) what religion you follow.

3. What is FreeMasonry's stance on reincarnation? I know that there is not one collective thought, but overall are they acceptant of it?

Freemasonry has no stance on reincarnation. There's an overall agreement that there is some form of afterlife, but no specific terms of what to call that or how to get there. That's between you and your church, not Masonry.

4. Address the term Morning Star, Lucifer, lightbearer. I havent really seen/heard a Mason stand up to these claims, making me assume that they are true. What does it mean to Masonry?? What does Lucifer mean to Masonry?

Lucifer doesn't mean anything to Masonry and isn't mentioned in any of the degrees. Some Masonic philosophers (namely Pike) have mentioned the word Lucifer, but its usually quoted out of context. Pike makes it clear he doesn't believe in an adversary, that his opinion is that all evil committed in the world is consistent with God's will—only by knowing bad times can we fully appreciate goodness and love. But again, that's only one Mason's opinion, and not a dogma that you are asked to believe or endorse.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
In all my life living here, I have never seen a Masonic bumper stickers, window decal or anything indicating that there is a lodge in my town. We have Eagles, Elks, and Rotary (which iam a member of, actually), but no Masons. I don't think that the people of this town would allow there to be a masonic lodge. That is considered "evil" by the good Christian folks.

Try knocking on the door at 2101 S. Lancaster on the first Thursday of the month at about 7:00...

edit (or 219 S. Main St. on the 2nd and 4th Thursday of the month, probably around the same time...)

By my count there are about 260 Masons in your town, granted, less than 1% of the population, but I'd wager you know a few...

[edit on 5/19/2010 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
I am interested in becoming a mason, so if you all are really "Masons", I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. My neighbor is a Lodge Leader at the lodge in my town (Lake Geneva, Wisconsin). I know that Masons have funky rules on how to be accepted. Like how you HAVE TO BE INVITED, but you must "show" a Mason that you are interested. Can you give me some ideas on how to confront my neighbor, but not do it in a disrespectful way that would make him not see me as "worthy"? Remember, I am a younger man and he is an elderly man haha.

In most jurisdictions, Masons cannot invite non-members to become members of the fraternity. Instead, those who are interested must seek out a Mason, and request that Mason to sponsor him.

2. The Christianity part. About how that one guy said hell no he wasnt a Christian and that he'd never be a Christian. And then someone said that he'd go "far"? Can someone explain that to me?? I find that very intirgueing, and very against what people are saying when they align Christianity and Masonry.

The story about the guy going "far" for not being a Christian is taken from an anti-Masonic book by Jim Shaw, and the story is fictional. Your brother Masons will neither know nor care what your religious or political beliefs are unless you make it a point to tell them. They won't ask you.

3. What is FreeMasonry's stance on reincarnation? I know that there is not one collective thought, but overall are they acceptant of it?

Freemasonry has no stance on reincarnation. What you personally believe about it is your business, and has nothing to do with the Masonic fraternity.

4. Address the term Morning Star, Lucifer, lightbearer. I havent really seen/heard a Mason stand up to these claims, making me assume that they are true. What does it mean to Masonry?? What does Lucifer mean to Masonry?

Actually, those claims are debunked by Masons quite often on this forum. The term "Lucifer" is not used in Freemasonry.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
I am interested in becoming a mason, so if you all are really "Masons", I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. My neighbor is a Lodge Leader at the lodge in my town (Lake Geneva, Wisconsin). I know that Masons have funky rules on how to be accepted. Like how you HAVE TO BE INVITED

Uh..no. You have to ask. You have to demonstrate an interest. Invitations to join Masonry are frowned upon.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
, but you must "show" a Mason that you are interested. Can you give me some ideas on how to confront my neighbor, but not do it in a disrespectful way that would make him not see me as "worthy"? Remember, I am a younger man and he is an elderly man haha.

Easy peasey. Just mention that you'd noticed that he was a Mason and that you were interested. The rest should flow like water.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
2. The Christianity part. About how that one guy said hell no he wasnt a Christian and that he'd never be a Christian. And then someone said that he'd go "far"? Can someone explain that to me?? I find that very intirgueing, and very against what people are saying when they align Christianity and Masonry.

Can't speak to that specifically. Masonry expects all men to be mindful of a Supreme Being whether he's Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. and doesn't dwell on the specifics of a person's belief.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
3. What is FreeMasonry's stance on reincarnation? I know that there is not one collective thought, but overall are they acceptant of it?

No stance. That's a part (or not) of a man's faith.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
4. Address the term Morning Star, Lucifer, lightbearer. I havent really seen/heard a Mason stand up to these claims, making me assume that they are true. What does it mean to Masonry?? What does Lucifer mean to Masonry?

Nothing in particular. Mind you, it means the world to anti-Masons who cite the writings of one man and use it to define Masonry worldwide even though the writings of that one man are relevant to the southern U.S. jurisdiction of one side order of Masonry.

Go figure.

and what if i want to be initiated into the Order of the Rosy Cross?

Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by Ahmose

 

how did you come to this conclusion>

Many years of questioning, reading, searching, and putting pieces together.

I will try to put something together soon,
to help understand it in the simplest way I can...

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Ahmose]

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Ahmose]

reply to post by lastzoroastrianleft

1. No, you are never invited. You must ask to join. If you are interested ask your neighbor for a petition. The Lodge will then vote on it. Just go up to him and start asking him about it and say you're interested. Especially being the Master he should be able to answer any questions.

2. It's a requirement that you be a man of faith, but not any particular faith. I am Christian, but a good friend of mine, who also succeeded me as Master, is a Jew. I'd never heard that "go far" comment before. I mean, if you decide to join the York Rite, you have to be Christian to go through the Chivalric Orders.

3. Freemasonry as an institution doesn't hold any stance on reincarnation. Any religious belief is left to the individual. That's as far as that goes.

4. That has been addressed several times in this forum. Its was a mistranslation of St. Jerome. Lucifer was a Babylonian King. The Lucifer that Pike wrote about was enlightenment, knowledge. As for Morning Star, even Jesus was referred to the Morning Star and other verses even said to let the light of the mornings star into your heart.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Hello FurryTexan,

If you learn how to surf this site for information you will find all the (Exo)teric info you could ever hope for.

masonicdictionary.com

The esoteric stuff is so well hidden in plain sight you will never know for sure with out joining.

Sure Masons like to talk about secret hand signs and words and for many that's what Masonry is aside form brotherly love, relief and truth.

But from my short brush with Masonry I'll tell you bud it's some crazy stuff.

As my ignorant speculation as I'm not a Mason, I'd say Freemasonry goes so deep down the rabbit hole life as you know it will never be the same.

From dreams, familiar faces and curtains you never saw before to just general obvious things you never gave a second thought to Freemasonry is a hell of a lot more than numerology and secret handshakes.

Craft Masonry is but the carving of your rough ashlar, the core of masonry, the tools you will need on your adventure if you have the guts for it.

But like i said this is just speculation on my part.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thank you all for clearing up those questions, and in reading your responses I have a few more, hope it doesnt bother you.
1. As stated before in posts, I am a young man. What is the age for a man to join the lodge? It's 18 right? That is what i have heard, but obviously people hear a lot of things and most of the time rumors are just rumors. Also, included in this question, If i am under any certain age limit, and have to wait a year or 2, do you have any advise on things i should do before seeking a sponsor and ultimately show desire for becoming a Mason? I have read into MANY religions (my username should say it all), and I am VERY much so into politics and indepedent study on religion, science, and history. But are there certain things i should look at before attempting to become a Mason?
2. Are there any rules/reasons why someone CAN NOT become a Mason, besides the obvious?? (like not believeing in god, even though I do believe in a Supreme Being)
3. What are some of your takes on the Magic Flute? As you may or may not know, Mozart was a Mason, and the musical was based on Masonic principles. Would that count as him giving away any secrets? Or was his message vague enough that he wouldnt get in trouble for it?
4. what is Masonry/your own opinion on zoroastrianism? There are plenty of Christian, Muslim, and Jewish Masons no doubt, but for being zoroastrian will i just get a few eyebrows raised, or is that not allowed and should i just call myself a deist to them?? Since all Masons are basically deists...
5. If i am under the requested age, am i still allowed to talk to my neighbor about FreeMasonry or no?

reply to post by KSigMason


I have my questins about the Morning Star KSig...i think Jesus could have been a reincarnation of u know who, sent to create a new mask for himself. A mask of "Light". to hide what lies beneath it. But besides that, What are some of the other things pasted the 3rd degree Master Mason that individuas can go through? And WHY are there so many different options??

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Thank you all for clearing up those questions, and in reading your responses I have a few more, hope it doesnt bother you.
1. As stated before in posts, I am a young man. What is the age for a man to join the lodge? It's 18 right? That is what i have heard, but obviously people hear a lot of things and most of the time rumors are just rumors. Also, included in this question, If i am under any certain age limit, and have to wait a year or 2, do you have any advise on things i should do before seeking a sponsor and ultimately show desire for becoming a Mason? I have read into MANY religions (my username should say it all), and I am VERY much so into politics and indepedent study on religion, science, and history. But are there certain things i should look at before attempting to become a Mason?

In most juristictions it is 21. Some are 18. Asking your neighbor would be the quickest way to that answer. It will also solidify your intentions. If it is 21, then he will be able to guide you on what things you might be able to read to be ready.

2. Are there any rules/reasons why someone CAN NOT become a Mason, besides the obvious?? (like not believeing in god, even though I do believe in a Supreme Being)

A belief in a supreme being, and not being a criminal is required. If you knocked over a bank or something, you might not make it in. masonry takes good men and makes them better. Bad men have to find their way out of the darkness.

3. What are some of your takes on the Magic Flute? As you may or may not know, Mozart was a Mason, and the musical was based on Masonic principles. Would that count as him giving away any secrets? Or was his message vague enough that he wouldnt get in trouble for it?

Not studying Mozart, I cannot tell you any more that you already know. (probably much more than I will know in a while) But the things that cannot be revealed are basic. Very fundamental things. All other things I have learned can and have been shared with all.

4. what is Masonry/your own opinion on zoroastrianism? There are plenty of Christian, Muslim, and Jewish Masons no doubt, but for being zoroastrian will i just get a few eyebrows raised, or is that not allowed and should i just call myself a deist to them?? Since all Masons are basically deists...

If you believe in a higher power, no man has any right to tell you what or who to believe in. Your belief is yours alone. Sacred ground.

5. If i am under the requested age, am i still allowed to talk to my neighbor about FreeMasonry or no?

Absolutely. Most any mason would be elated to share the brotherhood with his neighbor. It's a special bond that is only understood by being a part of the whole thing. If you are not of age for your area, he will let you know and be there for you when the time comes. If he isn't, one of us will be. Forever and always.

edit cuz I a bad speeler

[edit on 19-5-2010 by network dude]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The problem i have with this is it is written by folks like 32 and 33 degree masons. We are talking about the folks who actually know the Mysteries of the Rite. Their sworn oath is to keep these Mysteries secret from the profane under punishment of death. Why would i find them credible?

Can you show me where it is indicated in the ritual where someone is sworn to keep these mysteries secret?

No, i cannot. Of course, if i could then the oath to keep them secret would not mean much, right?

But I can take the word of others that it is kept secret. Namely, Manly Hall, as it pertains to this thread.

How about this oath? trosch.org

reply to post by network dude


thank you very much, i will talk to him soon then.

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
How about this oath? trosch.org

Did you read the degree for which that is attributed? It has nothing to do with the Scottish Rite.

reply to post by network dude


If you are not of age, aren't there junior masonic groups?

one of the locations linked to earlier on this thread discusses a building where my sister used to go for Rainbow Girls.

edit to add: i am not read at all on Masonic stuff. I had no idea that Rainbow Girls was masonic.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Yes. I thought he might find it interesting though.

I think most people would associate one with the other.

Will you show me the oath you're talking about?



edit-typo

[edit on 19-5-2010 by FearNoEvil]

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
Will you show me the oath you're talking about?

There is no oath for the Scottish Right which inhibits your from discussing the degrees.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Thanks.

I can understand why you guys stand up for your organization. I am a firm believer that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I've read a lot of the Anti-Mason threads and I have to admit - the only real evidence would actually be considered hear-say in a court of law.

These debates remind me of the Atheist vs Theist debates. They just go round and round.

Edit to add - Everyone should come to their own conclusion. I personally don't like at all the Masonic symbols built into Washington DC. I am still suspicious that something is not right about Masonry but have not come to a conclusion.

Peace



[edit on 19-5-2010 by FearNoEvil]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Well, the Royal Order of Scotland has a degree called "Rosy Cross", but again, you would have to join the Freemasons as well as joining either the Scottish Rite or the York Rite, and that Order is invitation only.

reply to post by lastzoroastrianleft

As a Christian obviously I don't think Jesus is a reincarnation of Satan.

It depends on what experience you want. York Rite is Christian oriented and is a commemoration to the Knights. The Scottish Rite is more philosophical. The Shriners is an organization that has fun but does a lot of good charitable work with their Children's Hospitals. There are many options that can enhance your Master Mason experience; I would say there are so many because the members felt the need to expand.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

For young men, there is the DeMolay. For the girls, there is the Job's Daughter and Rainbow Girls.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
3. What are some of your takes on the Magic Flute? As you may or may not know, Mozart was a Mason, and the musical was based on Masonic principles. Would that count as him giving away any secrets? Or was his message vague enough that he wouldnt get in trouble for it?

The Magic Flute is filled with Masonic symbolism, but I have seen it twice, and none of the secrets were given away.



If you watch the movie "Amadeus," there are a few short clips of the opera. I watched it again recently, and the backdrops on the stage are unmistakable masonic. In one clip of the opera in the second half, it felt like I was standing in lodge looking at the First Degree Tracing Board.

The music itself contains masonic symbolism, for example, three strongly emphasized chords before someone enters the stage. There is quite a lot written on the Masonic symbolism in the music, for example, the use of three flats in certain keys, three, five, seven or more notes at certain places in the music in the scenes with the staircase. But this would probably be missed unless you specifically analyze the music.

The content of the opera contains allusions to darkness and light, the sun, the blazing star, and extracts from the various rituals, often paraphrased with different characters etc.



The backdrop and costumes vary, though, depending on the producer's knowledge of Masonic symbolism. For example, there is one backdrop which is meant to symbolize Jacob's Ladder. Some producers might simply have a staircase. The more knowledgeable producers might put angels on it, for example.


The one in the movie "Amadeus" is very well done, definitely by a Mason, in my opinion. Pity I can't find any clips or images of this scene on Google. Maybe a more skilled Google user might find the scene I'm speaking about.

[edit on 20/5/2010 by Saurus]