Why is the 33rd degree the highest observed Masonic level?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Do not ask a mason to fill you in on the secrets. That is exactly what they swear to NOT do. Instead, you will have to study the shadows to ascertain the shape of the figure casting it.

Like i said, the book in the OP is written by a man who spent 2 solid years researching in detail the Mysteries. He became a Mason after writing the book. It is the best source of information on Masonic teachings that I have found.

Of course, i dismiss many of the available mason books as propaganda meant to bury their mysteries even deeper away from the profane.

So you're saying that Hall, spending 2 solid years on research, proved to his own satisfaction that there was nothing nefarious in Masonry, so he decided to join? Sounds like a ringing endorsement to me!

[edit on 5/14/2010 by JoshNorton]

reply to post by JoshNorton


While not far from what i think, no. That isn't it.

Hall spent his time researching this material. Masonry was only part of it. What he researched is the underlying secret behind all religions and all "secret orders". He found out enough, and wanted to continue what he was learning.

I am not making claims that Masonry is evil, or nefarious. I don't have anything that would convince me either way, honestly. What i can say is that they seem to have traded in the same information traded by other Mysteries in the Mediterannean area.

I am familiar with Hall's book. I haven't read it from cover to cover, but I've used it as reference. I think his decision to become a Mason to learn more about it was a natural step for his curiosity. The fact that he stayed does make a good case for it.

I'm not interested in asking a Mason to divulge all his secrets. I just want to separate the truthful wheat from the rumor chaff and ask some general questions. I don't think it would violate the oath, so I don't think there would be the need to lie about anything.

As for Jesus and the number 33, Manly P Hall did write in his Secret Teachings that he believed the historical Jesus was injected with a lot of esoteric symbolism (especially Solar symbolism) in an effort to cement the messiah claims. The number 33 could be part of that, if that indeed did happen.

But I'm still confused on 33. Why 33? Why not 27?

I guess I need more info on the number 33. Anyone know of any good numerology sites? :p

There are 32 teeth in your mouth with 32 nerves going to each of these teeth.
There are 32 nerves in your spinal column
There are 32 ventricles in your brain

33 represents the point between your eyebrows, the pineal gland.


Masons however dont know anything about all this because they have lost the whole lot and are now just a boys club!


72 is the number of the tower to reach heaven, the tower was 72 cubits high and made of 9 materials.

reply to post by josheboyxiii


You know, the best idea I have gotten so far in this thread deals with the 33 vertabrae. 33 steps to the head of a man, the "crown". This ties in well to the Masonic 33rd degree as well, as it is at this point that the initiate can have the wisdom of the Monad imparted to him.

And remember, Jesus didn't die at 33. He was taken straight to the Creator. Like the spine, after his 33rd step he returned to the Monad. Like Jesus, once the Mason has reached the 33rd step, he is able to gain the enlightenment.

I think that this is the best answer I have seen so far.

The above does not reconcile why the Church leaders have embarked on such lawlessness. Unless the Church is controlled by an invisible hand?

The initiates into the Mysteries generally tend to have a higher order of thought, or they would not be accepted. Am I wrong to assume that the secrets they hold would not spur them to be benevolent?

Were the Mysteries perverted along the way, and used for ill gain? I guess that is a question to answer.

edit to clarify: i find it hard to believe that an initiate would condone the behaviors seen condoned by previous popes. An initiate, however, will often ignore the behaviors of the profane, seeing it as a representation of a more base mind. You cannot blame the snake for acting like a snake, so to speak.

So i could imagine that a "higher power" could have crafted Church doctrine to create a new Mystery teaching, and then allowed the chips to further fall as they may. The entire purpose of the secret societies is to keep knowledge alive, but obscured from the average person. Quietly help craft a belief system to support a more corrupt political system might just be the deal you have to make with the devil, you know?

[edit on 14-5-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

It is the best source of information on Masonic teachings that I have found.

I don't really think it's "the best" .. It's a nice book, don't get me wrong, much better than pikes works anyways. But it should be noted it is very speculative, and interpretive .. especially as he was not a Mason when he wrote the book.

A lot of Masonic symbols and teachings are very perspective and interpretive.. they can mean things to different people. Some would say there is one set secret teachings that true Masons discover, some like me believe the genius in the teachings is that everyone can easily discover them, even if they mean different things. Ultimately it's the same way with a Religion, you cannot place five people of the same denomination and have them agree 100% on teachings, even if they are supposed to take it strictly from the book. Masonry, which has no book, is there fore even more speculative than organized philosophies. We set the guidelines with specific philosophical teachings. You discover the rest, and make of it what you will.

the point is that the Scottish Rite, being the successor to the Templars

I'd say no. Personally I believe Freemasonry it's self is a quasi neo-templar version of the older order.. we know Freemasonry originated out of Scotland, we know it ran underground before it was mainstream, and we know the Templars ran to Scotland after their destruction, even winning battles on-behalf of the Scottish King. I believe Templar tradition with local Gaelic folklore could have been the foundation of Masonry, which later on adapted the stories we hear today, based on biblical stories. Again, that's my opinion of course, from my own studies of both celtic histories and masonic histories. There are numerous theories of origin, and all being theories none are wrong or right..

The Scottish Rite we know was formed in the United States during the Civil War era. It's formation is well documented, and has nothing to do with the Templars. And besides, the York Rite are the Templars, not the Scottish Rite.

reply to post by LUXUS


72 cubits to reach heaven?

That's 120 feet.

Originally posted by LUXUS
There are 32 nerves in your spinal column

30 left/right pairs + 1 unpaired... From Wikipedia: "8 cervical spinal nerve pairs (C1-C8), 12 thoracic pairs (T1-T12), 5 lumbar pairs (L1-L5), and 5 sacral pairs (S1-S5). There is also an unpaired coccygeal spinal nerve (Co1)."

There are 32 ventricles in your brain

Actually, there are only 4: the left and right lateral ventricles and the aptly named third and fourth ventricles.


But yes, we have 32 teeth.

[edit on 5/14/2010 by JoshNorton]

Ok maybe the word I used is wrong but put it this way, the brain has 32 sections (according to this science)


72 cubits high, is symbolic. It refers to 72 points in the human body.


This knowledge has Celtic specifically Irish connections. Its connected with the ancient order of the round tower builders ie masons.

They were the guardians of the science of the tower "fiss" in old Irish.

This has no connection to modern masons, I'm just explaining where the symbolism comes from.

reply to post by Rockpuck


"Best" is merely my opinion. And the opinion of many others, some high level masons themselves.

I agree with your assessment of the founding of the Scottish Rite. I believe it is meant to continue to teachings they learned in The Holy Land, however, in as much as any other Mystery.

Originally posted by LUXUS
Ok maybe the word I used is wrong but put it this way, the brain has 32 sections (according to this science)

Hate to be picky, but by which science exactly? Nowhere am I seeing anything about 32 areas of the brain. The only numbered system I've found lists 52... (with #14 & 15 being non-human, and #s 49-51 not showing up on the list for some reason... still, that gives us 47...)

reply to post by JoshNorton


Not sure what he refers to, but in Buddhism there is a meditative exercise based on the 32 parts of the body.

www.buddhanet.net...

There are in this body head-hairs, body-hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, intestines, intestinal tract, stomach, faeces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, saliva, nasal mucus, synovium (oil lubricating the joints), urine and brain in the skull.


1. Khp. 2; cf. D., ii, 293; M. I, 57; iii, 90. Also see below Girimananda sutta 15.

Of course, in this theology the number 33 would represent, once again, the mind. The animating force. the spark of the Monad in each of us.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

some high level masons themselves.

No such thing. But I get it, it's your opinion, I'm sure some of the Masons on the board share the same as well.

I believe it is meant to continue to teachings they learned in The Holy Land, however, in as much as any other Mystery.

Maybe.. It's very deist though, even though based on the biblical teachings, the teachings come from the Old Testament, no Jesus talk going on. What ever the Templar learned in the Holy Land I don't know whether it's inserted in Masonry or not. Def has little to do with Scottish Rite though.

Originally posted by Saurus
Freemasonry is a male-only organization
[edit on 14/5/2010 by Saurus]

Saw a tv show in Denmark about Freemason where they did said that the Queen of Denmark was a member.

reply to post by Quantom


No Queen is not a member, it's uh ... a Fraternity. Now, if you're Queen is really a man, she might be a member. But I doubt it very much.

[edit on 5/14/2010 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by Rockpuck



Well, i wasn't going to say anything.....

It is possible that at a very high level (the "beyond 33" that we are talking about here) someone such as the queen could have involvement.

Perhaps it is financial in scope? Or seen as hereditary due to the nature of how the thrown is passed on. I dunno...but i could imagine that it might happen and just be kept mum.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

It is possible that at a very high level (the "beyond 33" that we are talking about here) someone such as the queen could have involvement.

But as we already discussed.. the Scottish Rite (which is not as widely practiced outside the US) is not Freemasonry. It's Masonic for sure, but Freemasonry does not extend beyond the 3rd degree. Now, let's assume that there ARE degrees above 33rd (which there isn't) .. even if someone was the 69th degree They still wouldn't be higher than a 3rd.

If I met a King and a President, a few CEO's, some billionaire and a famous actor in a lodge .. I'd be met on the level. Their titles disappear at the door, their fame is meaningless, their sense of self importance is lost when you are among Master Masons. Everyone took the same journey, every one took the same oaths, everyone meets "on the level".

In the Scottish Rite people take the degrees as numbers, when numbers mean nothing .. for instance, you become the 32 without seeing all 32 degrees.. because the numbers are not important. Someone who is not a Mason cannot understand this, because they are not inside.. they do not see. In our society we are trained (yes trained) that numerical order = value.. that the higher the number to more important, and the more numbers someone has the more powerful.

This is false in Masonry.

And, assuming that there are higher degrees where the Queen is a member, they violate their original oath to never see a female a Mason, and thus, would be expelled from the Fraternity.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


And I should add, that it is entirely possible that Freemasons form groups to conspire against someone, something, or whatever.. or conspire with each other to better their own financial means. In all likelihood they would meet through Freemasonry, but would not conspire as Freemasonry .. Freemasons can commit crimes, they are not infallible.. but when the institution it's self is separated from their crimes, all Freemasons should not be judged on their actions.

because 33 degrees is the alignment at which the earth will be at when the earth aligns with the the dark rift bringing universal wisdom but they use it because they know the wisdom of alchemy and nature that we are endowed to recieve when we are ready to...it represents acension pretty much..