Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


Would you be able to direct me to any information in support of the fictional nature of his story?

See Art DeHoyos' "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry", which produces Shaw's resignation letter, along with correspondence about it, all identifying Shaw as 32nd Degree KCCH, not a 33rd (including the membership card he turned in).

Since Shaw never actually witnessed the 33rd ceremony, he simply plagiarized Jon Blanchard's "Scotch Rite Masonry Illustrated", which was actually the rituals of the Cerneau Rite, not the legitmate Scottish Rite.

Also, concerning Manly P. Hall:

I too am a fan, but be careful in taking him too literally. He wrote most of books many years before he himself became a Mason. In his preface to the 1976 edition of "Lost Keys of Freemasonry", he said that, when he wrote his books, the only actual knowledge he had of masonry came from his local public library. So while Hall had everyone's best interests at heart, not everything he wrote was completely accurate.

Answer: Because Masons have trouble counting any higher?

Sorry couldn't resist.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by slane69]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
No, i cannot. Of course, if i could then the oath to keep them secret would not mean much, right?

But I can take the word of others that it is kept secret. Namely, Manly Hall, as it pertains to this thread.

But Hall wrote his book decades before becoming a Mason, let alone joining the Scottish Rite. There is no oath in the Scottish Rite that instructs what you allege otherwise it would have been posted along with all other oaths and obligations that have been published since their inception.




[edit on 16-5-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

In my very short time as a Mason, I have heard little or no reference to Jesus in any of our lectures or meetings. I suppose if what you say is true, these references may be introduced as I enter the Scottish Rites. That time is far off though, I fear. The time and money involved to participate more than a few nights a month arent here right now. 60 hour work weeks, new baby, etc.

Originally posted by BroketheWall
im sure they are aware of sacred spiritual knowledge in the hierarchy...as in the bloodlines of the illuminati.

Why would knowing the bloodlines of the Illuminati be considered 'sacred spiritual knowledge'?

they still know the secrets of ancient eygpt and even before that...

What do you consider to be the 'secrets of ancient Egypt'?

I have not studied the origins of the degrees very much, but in Jasper Ridley's book The Freemasons, it gives an origin that was more or less piecemeal like what Masonic Light mentioned. It says that there were several people who traveled around the US selling degrees of various number to anyone willing to buy them, and in the end, they combined them to total 33 and encompass the best of what was being offered. It wasn't as if they sat down and picked the number 33. From what I have read, I think it seems to be more or less a coincidental choice.

But, like I said, I got my information from that book alone, and I have no idea how accurate Jasper Ridley's research is.

On a side note, Masonic Light is a pretty well educated individual on all things related to Masonry from what I've seen from him on these forums over the past 5 or 6 years. I wouldn't write him off so quickly. And for the record, Masonry ends at third degree, and he being a 3rd degree Master Mason, I am sure he IS privy to the secrets

Originally posted by Taskism
I have not studied the origins of the degrees very much, but in Jasper Ridley's book The Freemasons, it gives an origin that was more or less piecemeal like what Masonic Light mentioned. It says that there were several people who traveled around the US selling degrees of various number to anyone willing to buy them, and in the end, they combined them to total 33 and encompass the best of what was being offered. It wasn't as if they sat down and picked the number 33. From what I have read, I think it seems to be more or less a coincidental choice.

But, like I said, I got my information from that book alone, and I have no idea how accurate Jasper Ridley's research is.

On a side note, Masonic Light is a pretty well educated individual on all things related to Masonry from what I've seen from him on these forums over the past 5 or 6 years. I wouldn't write him off so quickly. And for the record, Masonry ends at third degree, and he being a 3rd degree Master Mason, I am sure he IS privy to the secrets

OH, i am not writing anyone off. Not in the least. Master Mason's posts in this thread are highly valuable to me. I compartmentalise viewpoints (which i will explain in a minute) and i have a few compartments that what Mason says will fit into.

However, i also am very critical of what i read. On the compartmentalised viewpoints that are most often considered and applied as a grid or matrix for which me to consider something, i like to not include anecdotes that arise from self policing. Mason likely knows a ton, but I cannot have much confidence in what he shares. Everything that the Masons do has rhyme or reason. Or, at least it did at one point in the past (that info may be lost, according to more than just Hall).

Now, when i say "compartmentalise" i mean that i can consider many different concepts of the reality. Everyone can do this, i just think often about why and how it is done. For instance, most of us can discuss world history according to popular models, but we also can discuss them i the context of various individual writers models. That is compartmentalising.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Mason likely knows a ton, but I cannot have much confidence in what he shares.

Why not?

Everything that the Masons do has rhyme or reason.

This is a curious statement. Could you be more specific?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


2. i am concerned about front loading information. it is a step i may one day take, but not until i am prepared.

the first one, I don't get,( I get the Rosicrucian thing, but not the being able to meet anyone in a town of 25k) but I respect the second one. Just remember what we keep telling everyone, it isn't the information that is so important, it's how you get that information that makes it so special. I hope you do ask that question when you are ready.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by network dude]

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


2. i am concerned about front loading information. it is a step i may one day take, but not until i am prepared.

the first one, I don't get,( I get the Rosicrucian thing, but not the being able to meet anyone in a town of 25k) but I respect the second one. Just remember what we keep telling everyone, it isn't the information that is so important, it's how you get that information that makes it so special. I hope you do ask that question when you are ready.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by network dude]

I will be moving to San Antonio within this year. Once i make that move, and get settled in, I may start looking around.

You would have to understand the town i live in. It is small. We used to have a booming oil economy and an Air Force base, until the mid 80's when the oil busted (and the base closed in 79). After that, just about anyone with any education left.

Our town now has a few doctors, lawyers, nurses, and teachers. But it is mostly service industry (fast food, restaurant, hotel, etc). The external sources of income for our town would be the Alon Refinery (see my previous thread about it exploding), 5 prisons, 1 mental hospital, and 1 VA hospital. There may be about 300 other jobs in manufacturing, and another 200 in a bottle making company (for CocaCola).

In short, this town is lots and lots of people who are uneducated, often willfully ignorant, shortsighted, poor, and narrowminded. In my town of 25k, we have over 100 churches. Most people are either Catholic, Baptist, or Methodist. We have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the state of Texas. We sit at the crossroads of a major interstate and major highway, both that are critical to the drug trades ability to get their product moved into the US.

The great Paul Harvey once said of my town, "If you want to commit a murder and get away with it, this is the place to go" during a radio broadcast in the late 80's. Nothing has really changed.

I am a local business leader and community leader. I know lots of the good people of this town. I say lots, but there are few. I know everyone. I have lived here about 30 years. I ran a call center that employed 400 at a time, so i was able to meet thousands of our residents while doing that. It takes me an hour to buy 1 roll of toilet paper at the grocery store because i have to stop and say hi to someone about every 5 steps.

In all my life living here, I have never seen a Masonic bumper stickers, window decal or anything indicating that there is a lodge in my town. We have Eagles, Elks, and Rotary (which iam a member of, actually), but no Masons. I don't think that the people of this town would allow there to be a masonic lodge. That is considered "evil" by the good Christian folks.

I am interested in becoming a mason, so if you all are really "Masons", I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. My neighbor is a Lodge Leader at the lodge in my town (Lake Geneva, Wisconsin). I know that Masons have funky rules on how to be accepted. Like how you HAVE TO BE INVITED, but you must "show" a Mason that you are interested. Can you give me some ideas on how to confront my neighbor, but not do it in a disrespectful way that would make him not see me as "worthy"? Remember, I am a younger man and he is an elderly man haha.
2. The Christianity part. About how that one guy said hell no he wasnt a Christian and that he'd never be a Christian. And then someone said that he'd go "far"? Can someone explain that to me?? I find that very intirgueing, and very against what people are saying when they align Christianity and Masonry.
3. What is FreeMasonry's stance on reincarnation? I know that there is not one collective thought, but overall are they acceptant of it?
4. Address the term Morning Star, Lucifer, lightbearer. I havent really seen/heard a Mason stand up to these claims, making me assume that they are true. What does it mean to Masonry?? What does Lucifer mean to Masonry?