Why is the 33rd degree the highest observed Masonic level?

AFAIK, the human mouth usually grows as many as 32 teeth. The last 4 teeth are "wisdom teeth" and are not essential for the survival of a human being. That is probably why the 33rd degree is "honorary."

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
AFAIK, the human mouth usually grows as many as 32 teeth. The last 4 teeth are "wisdom teeth" and are not essential for the survival of a human being. That is probably why the 33rd degree is "honorary."

yeah, i have no wisdom teeth. 37 years old, none on my dental xrays, none ever came in. lucky, i guess.


i am not sure that the teeth are linked in such a way, due to the propensity for deviation, especially in minimized genetic variety type environments (bottlenecking, etc).

But who knows. It is something i would have to consider, to figure out what is significant in the teeth.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

Actually there are 33 actual 33rd degree Masons that are members on the Supreme Council. The rest are honorary, but the 33 are actual members.

reply to post by LUXUS


towards the end of Halls book there is a description of the process behind the great work. i am sure that it is not a complete or accurate description. But it gives some insight into the types of things that alchemists were doing.

and the idea that water vapor would be seen as important is spot on, as it represents air and water simultaneously. Dew can be made to be nearly pure water.

edit to add: is there a substance made of dirt/rock that gets hot?

doesn't uranium get hot? a material that could represent the other two: earth and fire.

The buddhists in tibet belief uranium to be the "bones of the earth".

[edit on 22-5-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
I am interested in becoming a mason, so if you all are really "Masons", I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1. My neighbor is a Lodge Leader at the lodge in my town (Lake Geneva, Wisconsin). I know that Masons have funky rules on how to be accepted. Like how you HAVE TO BE INVITED, but you must "show" a Mason that you are interested. Can you give me some ideas on how to confront my neighbor, but not do it in a disrespectful way that would make him not see me as "worthy"? Remember, I am a younger man and he is an elderly man haha.

The "Lodge Leader" is known as the Worshipful Master.

Just approach him respectfully and he'll give you the details. If you're not sure what "respectfully" means, then you should probably take go to college before joining the Masonic lodge. Beware, however, that most Masons are over the age of 55.

2. The Christianity part. About how that one guy said hell no he wasnt a Christian and that he'd never be a Christian. And then someone said that he'd go "far"? Can someone explain that to me?? I find that very intirgueing, and very against what people are saying when they align Christianity and Masonry.

If you are Catholic, then you risk ex-communication by joining Freemasonry. In Morals and Dogma, Christianity and the Bible are described in a rather sacreligious manner. Freemasonry directly contracts the Bible in many ways. There is a "Masonic Bible," which is one of the biggest jokes in Freemasonry.

3. What is FreeMasonry's stance on reincarnation? I know that there is not one collective thought, but overall are they acceptant of it?

Freemasonry doesn't teach reincarnation per se, but they perform a funeral service, during which the deceased is promised a place in the Celestial Lodge Above.

4. Address the term Morning Star, Lucifer, lightbearer. I havent really seen/heard a Mason stand up to these claims, making me assume that they are true. What does it mean to Masonry?? What does Lucifer mean to Masonry?

The Freemasons consider Lucifer to be benevolent, rather than a diabolical force like the Christians believe. The Freemasons tend to skip over the parts of the Bible which contradict their claims.

Originally posted by lastzoroastrianleft
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Thank you all for clearing up those questions, and in reading your responses I have a few more, hope it doesnt bother you.
1. As stated before in posts, I am a young man. What is the age for a man to join the lodge? It's 18 right? That is what i have heard, but obviously people hear a lot of things and most of the time rumors are just rumors. Also, included in this question, If i am under any certain age limit, and have to wait a year or 2, do you have any advise on things i should do before seeking a sponsor and ultimately show desire for becoming a Mason? I have read into MANY religions (my username should say it all), and I am VERY much so into politics and indepedent study on religion, science, and history. But are there certain things i should look at before attempting to become a Mason?

Most lodges require you to be 21, in order for your membership to be legally-binding. Usually they will only allow you to join at age 18 if your father is a Master Mason.

2. Are there any rules/reasons why someone CAN NOT become a Mason, besides the obvious?? (like not believeing in god, even though I do believe in a Supreme Being)

You can't join if you are a "fool" or if you're senile. Your local Masonic lodge has an investigation committee whose job is to dig up the dirt on perspective members. For the most part, they will only deny you membership if you're a danger to the other members.

3. What are some of your takes on the Magic Flute? As you may or may not know, Mozart was a Mason, and the musical was based on Masonic principles. Would that count as him giving away any secrets? Or was his message vague enough that he wouldnt get in trouble for it?

The Freemasons are very proud to boast that Mozart was a Freemason. He died shortly after publishing The Magic Flute.

4. what is Masonry/your own opinion on zoroastrianism? There are plenty of Christian, Muslim, and Jewish Masons no doubt, but for being zoroastrian will i just get a few eyebrows raised, or is that not allowed and should i just call myself a deist to them?? Since all Masons are basically deists...

The Freemasons have stolen a lots from Zoroastrianism, including the concept of enlightenment. Freemasons actually tend to gravatate towards the unusual, so they would actually appreciate having more Zoroastrians in their lodges. I was able to get a lot of stuff out of Freemasons by saying that I was a pantheist (of course, I was also recommended by another person who was prominent in the "community").

5. If i am under the requested age, am i still allowed to talk to my neighbor about FreeMasonry or no?

If you're interested in joining, you are allowed to discuss Freemasonry with whomever you'd like, but don't expect a member to give you any true answers to your questions.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

You were right when saying the presiding officer of the Blue Lodge is called the Worshipful Master. However, stereotypically Freemasonry was filled with older men, but the age group is dropping dramatically (both from younger men joining and older men dying off). Using my Lodge as an example, I was WM last year and I am 25. The top 3 officers of my Lodge are the following ages respectfully: 39, 32, and 23. Many men in the line up are in their 20s. Many Lodges in my State are having younger and younger leaders.

Again, Morals & Dogma is the opinion of one man, it doesn't represent the opinion of Freemasonry. Freemasonry holds no ill will against Catholicism, Christianity, or the Bible. Freemasonry doesn't contradict the Bible, it only contradicts extremists beliefs and interpretations. In fact, to fully join the York Rite in America you must be a Christian. The Holy Book used in Freemasonry depends on the majority of the membership. Some us the Torah or the Koran; it depends on the membership.

We do funeral rites, but we only do it when it has been requested. As for the Celestial Lodge Above, is a generic term for Heaven or whatever manifestation according to his own belief system.

Pike was talking about enlightenment, knowledge, when he spoke of Lucifer. Nowhere in any Masonic ceremony is Lucifer ever talked about. We do not see him as a benevolent being. How does Freemasonry skip over the Bible?

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

The age requirement differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Idaho only requires a man to be 18 and you don't have to have a Masonic relation.

The investigative committee doesn't dig up dirt. The most we can do is look up your criminal record, but we have to have your permission first. Most investigative committees just have a piece of paper with some general questions to ask the potential member. Family members can sit in on the investigative meeting and ask questions. I've never seen an unfavorable report, but I've seen a petitioner rejected.

I don't know very much about Zoroastrianism, but I'm sure a Mason here does. We appreciate good men of all faiths to join our beloved Order.

We give true answers to anyone who asks, but we will not break our vows. To say otherwise is foolish.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Again, Morals & Dogma is the opinion of one man, it doesn't represent the opinion of Freemasonry. Freemasonry holds no ill will against Catholicism, Christianity, or the Bible. Freemasonry doesn't contradict the Bible, it only contradicts extremists beliefs and interpretations. In fact, to fully join the York Rite in America you must be a Christian. The Holy Book used in Freemasonry depends on the majority of the membership. Some us the Torah or the Koran; it depends on the membership.

It is the opinion of an authority.

For starters, the Bible says that Jesus is the only cornerstone, and makes no mention of Hiram Abiff as the Freemasons do.

We do funeral rites, but we only do it when it has been requested. As for the Celestial Lodge Above, is a generic term for Heaven or whatever manifestation according to his own belief system.

So belief systems which teach reincarnation are SOL, then ?

Pike was talking about enlightenment, knowledge, when he spoke of Lucifer. Nowhere in any Masonic ceremony is Lucifer ever talked about. We do not see him as a benevolent being. How does Freemasonry skip over the Bible?

The Bible clearly states that Lucifer is evil and fallen from heaven.

The investigative committee doesn't dig up dirt. The most we can do is look up your criminal record, but we have to have your permission first. Most investigative committees just have a piece of paper with some general questions to ask the potential member. Family members can sit in on the investigative meeting and ask questions. I've never seen an unfavorable report, but I've seen a petitioner rejected.

They also look at credit reports and other things like personnel and student files.

We give true answers to anyone who asks, but we will not break our vows. To say otherwise is foolish.

That's called a "lie of omission."

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
They also look at credit reports and other things like personnel and student files.

Please show me a Masonic petition that has a signature release for this type of background search.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


The wisdom teeth are the last to develop thus the link to age and wisdom.

The alchemists use a substance called the "primal material" which is composed of three substances. Sulphur (fire), quicksilver (air & water) and earth (earth) (sometimes called salt)

The sulphur is not "S" of the periodic table neither is quicksilver "Hg", likewise salt is not sodium chloride.

It should be understood that the Primal material is one and not many.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by LUXUS]

[edit on 23-5-2010 by LUXUS]

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Again, Morals & Dogma is the opinion of one man, it doesn't represent the opinion of Freemasonry. Freemasonry holds no ill will against Catholicism, Christianity, or the Bible. Freemasonry doesn't contradict the Bible, it only contradicts extremists beliefs and interpretations. In fact, to fully join the York Rite in America you must be a Christian. The Holy Book used in Freemasonry depends on the majority of the membership. Some us the Torah or the Koran; it depends on the membership.

It is the opinion of an authority.

Opinions are like *s. Everyone has one. And guess what the operative word in your response is? "Opinion".

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
For starters, the Bible says that Jesus is the only cornerstone, and makes no mention of Hiram Abiff as the Freemasons do.

Guess what? All Masons aren't Christians. Masonry's formatted in such a manner as to be inclusive rather than exclusive, looking to the common themes that bind most religions. This is what allows me as a Christian (Anglican), one of our Past Masters (Jewish), our Senior Warden (Sikh), our Senior Steward (Mormon) and a recent initiate (Islamic) to be able to sit in-Lodge together, moralise on the same stories and take away something which we each can apply to our respective faiths.

I'm at a loss to understand what about this ability to work together in peace is so terrifying.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by KSigMason
We do funeral rites, but we only do it when it has been requested. As for the Celestial Lodge Above, is a generic term for Heaven or whatever manifestation according to his own belief system.

So belief systems which teach reincarnation are SOL, then ?

Not at all.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by KSigMason
Pike was talking about enlightenment, knowledge, when he spoke of Lucifer. Nowhere in any Masonic ceremony is Lucifer ever talked about. We do not see him as a benevolent being. How does Freemasonry skip over the Bible?

The Bible clearly states that Lucifer is evil and fallen from heaven.

The whole Lucifer/Light Bringer/Satan/Beelzebub thing has been flogged to death repeatedly in multiple threads. A quick search should help you out there.

Let's not derail this thread too.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by KSigMason
The investigative committee doesn't dig up dirt. The most we can do is look up your criminal record, but we have to have your permission first. Most investigative committees just have a piece of paper with some general questions to ask the potential member. Family members can sit in on the investigative meeting and ask questions. I've never seen an unfavorable report, but I've seen a petitioner rejected.

They also look at credit reports and other things like personnel and student files.

ORLY? Care to back that up with a little thing known in the real world as proof?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by KSigMason
We give true answers to anyone who asks, but we will not break our vows. To say otherwise is foolish.

That's called a "lie of omission."

Uh....no. Not telling every secret that's been entrusted to one's care when one has promised not to is a sign of fidelity, a sign of character. That said, you can easily Google all the information your heart could desire.

That's brought to you courtesy of those with lower character. Their shortcoming, not Ksig's or mine (or any of the other Masons who attempt to answer questions here).

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I'd be mightily surprised to learn that you were a actual Freemason.

Deny ignorance!

reply to post by LUXUS



I believe quicksilver is dew. I also recall seeing that it was specifically dew collected on the night of a full moon, and also that it was on the night of the solstice/equinox. Mercury is not part of it, i do not believe.

the salt....i have a hard time understanding it. I have often considered uranium to be the sulfur.

i dunno...i am going to have to keep looking at it.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

I'd be mightily surprised to learn that you were a actual Freemason.

Deny ignorance!

Then I guess you better be putting on your "mightily surprised" look.

The mind fairly boggles at how that might come across.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

Its the opinion of someone who led the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite is not, nor ever was, a hierarchy of the Blue Lodge. The only authority of the Blue Lodge is the Grand Lodge of its respective jurisdiction.

The Scottish Rite is the only place in the Masons that Pike is revered.

Freemasons don't contradict the Bible when Jesus spoke about being a cornerstone nor do we say that Hiram Abif was a savior. The Bible does indeed mention Hiram Abif, in the First Book of Kings, Chapter VII. Specifically look at verses 13 & 14.

I never said that. As a Christian, I interpret the Celestial Lodge as Heaven, but someone else could interpret their afterlife as a reincarnation. Freemasonry explains that everyone worships in their own way. This is why religion and politics are two things forbidden to be spoke about within the Lodge.

The Bible clearly states that Lucifer is a Babylonian King (see Isaiah 14:4) as well as it states that Jesus is the Morning Star, son of the morning, as well as letting the morning star into your heart. Isaiah 14:12 (the only place the Lucifer is ever mentioned in the Bible) originally had "Helal, son of Ashar" which literally translates into "Day Star, son of the Morning". St. Jerome was the one who did this translation and during his time the morning star was called Lucifer. I mean King Louis XIV was called the Sun King. Royalty are often described as "shining" or "illuminating". Fun fact: There was a Bishop that lived around the same time as Jerome and his name was Lucifer. I also find it ironic that the Devil, the Prince of Darkness, is associated with a translation that means "light bringer".

We do not look at credit reports or student files. That's just nonsense.

Its not a lie of ommission. Why would you be willing to join a group of men who are not willing to keep their oaths?

reply to post by KSigMason

This is all very interesting. I see no wher were i wouldnt fit the criteria for entering, except the age, and i thank you all for helping me out with the questions. But delving deeper into what you said about FreeMasonry copying things of zoroastrianism, my thought is that FreemAsonry, as well as the Templars, may have been a group of Zoroastrians that go back to the 3 Wise Men who called themselves the "Magi". Do any of you know what i'm talking about? The 3 Wise MEn were IN FACT Zoroastrian, and thought Jesus was a reincarnation of AHura-Mazda, they did not call him "Jehovah" or "Jesus". The Magi were one of the earliest Mystery schools ever, and most of their links go back to zoroastrianism. Does anyone else see where i'm getting at??

reply to post by lastzoroastrianleft



yes. some linkage would be nice, though.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


The main reason that there are 33 degrees in Scottish Rite Freemasonry is that the 33 degrees represent the 33 years that King David ruled over all of Israel and Judah from Jerusalem.
Although his rule lasted 40 years in total, for the 1st seven years he ruled from Hebron.

2 Samuel 5:5
1 Kings 2:11
1 Chronicles 3:4
1 Chronicles 29:27

There is also strong evidence to support the earlier reference in allusion to the 33 vertebrae in the human spine stretching from the sacrum to the 'temple' and it's allusion to Jacob's ladder.

Other obvious possible links are 'the thirty-three hundred foremen who supervised the project and directed the workmen'

1 Kings 5:16

Read between the lines of the Old Testament and other Pre-Christian writings ladies and gentlemen and the truth will be revealed.

Multiple Past Master
UGLE



[edit on 24-5-2010 by Stone Squarer]

Originally posted by Stone Squarer


There is also strong evidence to support the earlier reference in allusion to the 33 vertebrae in the human spine stretching from the sacrum to the 'temple' and it's allusion to Jacob's ladder.

I would be interested in seeing that strong evidence, as my research has found that the 33 was accidental, i.e., it just so happened that when they combined the Philosopical Rite with the French Rite of Perfection, the number of degrees equalled 33. Had the French Rite only 24 degrees instead of 25, the present Scottish Rite would consist of only 32.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by Masonic Light]

IMO, too many people put too much importance on the numbering system of the Scottish Rite. Few know the countless honorary, invitation-only degrees/orders there are within the York Rite.

Some say it is because Christ lived to be 33, but that would be contradictory to its membership requirement as it is not the Scottish Rite that requires members to be Christian. I personally don't know too much about the history of the Scottish Rite, but Masonic Light seems to make some really good points of historical fact.