Calling all Atheists!

I do not believe things. I either know or don't know, or I know that there's evidence for or evidence against. I do not like to use the word "believe" when talking about iffy subjects like this. it is a dangerous and sometimes deadly word.

That said, I'm not against the whole idea of the soul/spirits, maybe even certain supernatural abilities. I understand that there is a hell of a lot that we don't know about... yet. however, before I accept any such claims anyone would make, they'd have to wade through a sea of salt to get to me. extraordinary claims require extraordinary.

Originally posted by Misoir
I recently started watching Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchins, and Richard Dawkins. They have provided me with the information I needed to confirm that I truly don't believe there is a god.

This makes for a poor Athiest.
Those three _never_ said that at all.
They say "Jesus didn't create the world."
Which is something entirely different. Or
"I don't think we should teach children about
a tribal sky god" Again something very different.
Please study theology more. The three above could
teach very advanced classes in theology. But blanket
statements like "I truly don't believe there is a god" do a
disservice to the inteligence, education, and science of Atheist.


David Grouchy

The ignorance of atheism — and I know, as a former atheist of some 20 years — is the tendency to use and refer to the word "supernatural" to label those things in which they "do not believe"... There is nothing in this universe that is supernatural. There are things we think we understand (natural) and things about which we are utterly ignorant, and we term the latter "supernatural."

One hundred years ago, had you attempted to explain the workings of a microwave oven or a personal computer to the most gifted scientist, he might accuse you of fantasizing about the supernatural, but only because his mind could not grasp the concept you were presenting to him.

Even if you offered him detailed blueprints of such futuristic items, he would be fogbound — that's because there would be decades of technical research and development in myriad fields standing between him and enlightenment. To him, such blueprints would appear as nothing so much as neurotic doodles.

It's not because the scientist was a narrow-minded dolt, but because he simply did not and could not understand the concept with his limited technical comprehension.

I think the same is true of atheists. Only about 5% of the human population of Earth professes to be atheistic. Now, what is the more difficult to believe: that only 5% of the world's population is "truly enlightened"; or that 5% of the world's population simply doesn't understand that which is completely natural and obvious to everyone else?

The former is, by far, more difficult to accept, IMO, and the latter is far more feasible.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 5/11/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Redajin
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary [evidence].

However, this is where atheists always lose the argument. "Extraordinary" means that which is beyond the ordinary, yes?

Only 5% of humanity professes to be athiest.

Are you telling me that only 5% of humanity is defining that which is "ordinary" in our existence? Are you telling me that, when 95% of humanity professes to be theist, that the great sea of humanity is making extraordinary claims?

How does that work?

To me, it would seem just the opposite is true — that the vast majority of humanity, as theists, would define that which is "ordinary," while the 5% minority of atheists are the ones making extraordinary claims.

Extraordinary claims do, indeed, require extraordinary evidence. The claim that there is no God, by the numbers, is an extraordinary claim.

However, atheists never attempt to prove their case — "It's impossible to prove that a thing doesn't exist," they invariably moo. That's the atheist argument.

Atheists don't see the laughable contradiction; or, if they do, they're copping out of providing an honest answer.

— Doc Velocity

Well, to be fair, an atheistic viewpoint is fairly easy to come across when you have the freedom to do so. I believe that without the indoctrination of the young that many religions (most especially missionary religions (of which western religions are the most prominent)) utilize to swell their numbers we'd see something where religion ceased to be a social or even almost corporate endeavor and instead became a more personal communion with the higher power and moral base that each individual came to believe in.

Also, with the sheer amount of evidence showing that most modern religions are simply adaptations of a number of other beliefs that simply discredits anything the canon or the leaders say. Simple research can show that while spirituality is something that cannot be construed as negative, religion itself often is as corrupt and evil as any government.

reply to post by Misoir

She told him what she has heard and seen, he said he couldn’t call it schizophrenia so he wrote it down as schizo-effective. But then he told her and my mom that he doesn’t want them to tell anyone else but it is not schizophrenia, but he spent several years in the middle east studying psychiatry and he believes it is ghosts/spirits.

It's actually Schizo-Affective Disorder, and this diagnosis would certainly account for both visual and auditory hallucinations, regardless of whether the physician has studied in the Middle East, or the planet Neptune.

Just Sayin'

Originally posted by Misoir
I am a new member of the Atheist community. After becoming an Agnostic about 6 months ago I recently started watching Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchins, and Richard Dawkins. They have provided me with the information I needed to confirm that I truly don't believe there is a god.

Now here is my question to all my fellow Athest ATS members, do you believe in spirits/supernatural entities in any form? I myself am what I would term an Agnostic to supernatural things, but I truly don't believe in a god.

Part of me, sometimes, wants things like ghosts and an afterlife to exist, but seeing as how these have never been shown to exist, I don't. I think it stems from reading too many fantasy novels (lol)

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Misoir
I recently started watching Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchins, and Richard Dawkins. They have provided me with the information I needed to confirm that I truly don't believe there is a god.

This makes for a poor Athiest.
Those three _never_ said that at all.
They say "Jesus didn't create the world."
Which is something entirely different. Or
"I don't think we should teach children about
a tribal sky god" Again something very different.
Please study theology more. The three above could
teach very advanced classes in theology. But blanket
statements like "I truly don't believe there is a god" do a
disservice to the inteligence, education, and science of Atheist.

David Grouchy

Not sure where you are going, but it seems to be the Kierkegaard Gambit - which basically stipulates one cannot fathom the non-existence of god, without properly studying that existence. Or in simpler terms: you have to study a bunch of mumbo-jumbo theology before you can easily arrive at the notion you don't believe any of it.

Do I need to study leperchaunology to dispel notions of leperchauns? Why no ofcourse...

[edit on 12-5-2010 by makinho21]

Hm. I've been thinking on this. I don't think any of the beliefs are mutually exclusive.

For example, Christians generally believe in the Holy Trinity, that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; aka the Holy Spirit. Here, Christians admit to believing in Spirits.

Atheists, however, express non-belief in a Supreme Being (God), but this would not necessarily prevent a belief in a spirit life, or realm.

For example, when we leave the physical realm we simply cross over into a spiritual realm. This might be done without the belief in a God, but just as a simple order of things.

In this thread you've called upon Atheists, which I am not, but here's my two rambling cents anyway.

reply to post by Misoir


Atheism specifically relates to God or Theism.


Spirits, Ghosts, Aliens and all manner of Paranormal things, have nothing to do with Atheism at all.

People always interchange and blur the line between Skepticism and Atheism and the two are not the same thing at all.

And people say that Atheists only believe something if there is empirical evidence for it and that they are all Skeptics and closed minded and so on.... all of that is bollocks.

For me anyway, Atheism literally just relates to God/s and Religion.


I am interested in many Eastern Philosophies.... and Spirituality and many aspects of that kind of thing.

I enjoy all kinds of conspiracies too and enjoy serious discussions about UFO's and Aliens.

Atheism is to do with God, anything else is not Atheism.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I just wanted to explain that your analogy is a utterly poor one.
1910 physicists would easily understand how a microwave works - it is really a simple circuit, and microwaves (actual waves) were already known.
In fact, quantum theory originated well before this date, so wave properties and the like were already deeply investigated.

Though I acknowledge what you were attempting to do.
However, it remains that, you can easily take many technologies of today, and with a little study, most 19th century scientists would understand them completely. That is because science is goverened by laws and rules which come into existence through a progressive advancement of knowledge. There would be an easy extrapolation back to the knowledge of said time period.
Unlike theology, which would still be make-believe regardless of time period, science is rooted in our advancing sophistication. There is a continual line of testable, observable predictions which accompanies every new techology, and these, simply, originate from the most basic experiments of our day.

Science is chock full of things that used to be "supernatural" until somebody figured out a way to measure them or see them or otherwise relate them to something we accept as natural. Magnetism, electricity, meteors, the way the human body works, diseases, etc., all used to be mysterious forces beyond our comprehension.

I don't know how specifically a personality construct or entity can exist without a physical body, as some kind of electromagnetic field structure or something. Maybe they're made of a kind of coherent energy we aren't very good at measuring. I don't know.

But I'm not against science taking a good look at the subject to see what all the hubbub is about.

As for "God," though. I can't be expected to believe in something that I've never heard anybody define well enough to even begin studying. Is God everything? Yes? Well, I don't believe in everything. So I guess I don't believe in God. There's a real problem with the definition there.

...yeah, what blupblup said... being an atheist simply means you dont believe in the existence of a god or gods... thats all it means... anything else attached to it is a personal addendum... mine is except in the imaginations of humans...

...theres lots of line blurring on all sides... dont know who started the hogwash that atheists are pro-science super-intellects that only believe in things which can be empirically proven but i'd bet a quarter they're related to the ilk that started the hogwash that only 5% of Earth's population are atheist...

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Also, not sure where you got your "fact" from, but the statistics regarding atheism and no-believe in a deity are quite varied.
A simply google search will confirm this.
Take this for example (yes I used wiki):

While there are more atheists than ever before, polls show that atheism's percentages seems to be declining. This may be because birth rates in religious societies are much higher. This is similar to a 2002 survey by Adherents.com, which estimates the proportion of the world's people who are "secular, non-religious, agnostics and atheists" at about 14%A 2004 survey by the BBC in 10 countries showed the proportion of the population "who don't believe in God" varying between 0% (Nigeria) and 39% (UK), with an average close to 17% in the countries surveyed.

Ofcourse, anyone with a brain would realize that Atheists are more likely to be found in modern, developed countries (imagine that eh?):

Though atheists are in the minority in most countries, they are relatively common in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, in former and present Communist states, and to a much lesser extent, in the United States.

the US is the only real discrepancy, sad, but true. The bible-belt of America still is alive and kickin'!

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...yeah, what blupblup said... being an atheist simply means you dont believe in the existence of a god or gods... thats all it means... anything else attached to it is a personal addendum... mine is except in the imaginations of humans...

...theres lots of line blurring on all sides... dont know who started the hogwash that atheists are pro-science super-intellects that only believe in things which can be empirically proven but i'd bet a quarter they're related to the ilk that started the hogwash that only 5% of Earth's population are atheist...

I don't believe in God but I believe in supernatural and I have a vivid spirituality.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull


I don't believe in the supernatural but I do believe there are elements within nature we might not understand. I am an atheist but I have had quite a few paranormal experiences. I am not sure what caused those experiences but I am sure that jumping to the conclusion of it being a spirit isn't the best idea. So my paranormal experiences have led to me becoming a sort of open-minded skeptic about the paranormal and I've been on quite a few paranormal investigations, one in which I, and the other investigators, experienced some downright spooky stuff.

So to conclude, I am an agnostic atheist (the two ideas aren't necessarily at odds), I do believe in the paranormal because I've experienced it but I am unsure exactly what caused the experiences I had. I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to say all my experiences were for sure a ghost or spirit, some other phenomenon might be at work.

I'm somewhat on par with this post. I'm entirely atheist but still have some conjecture about some of the weird and "spooky" stuff I've seen and experienced. Science has a pretty convincing account about some of the weirdness I've experienced though so I'm not as head-shagged as some others.

I believe that there is a creator, but who/what/he/she/it is, I do not know. I dont worship anything personally, yet I think there is a creator that created the Universe and how things are etc. So I dunno what category i'd fall under.

I don't see how you can believe in the supernatural and not believe in God.

I guess it depends on what you define as "God." I see God as being "ALL" and not some guy with a beard in heaven deciding who gets chocoale ice cream for dessert. God is everything. There is nothing that God isn't.

If you admit that supernatural events are part of our reality, then you are admitting that our reality is more than what it is generally accepted by science----and is "beyond natural."

If you admit that something "beyond-natural" can exist, then you are saying that there is a possibility that something exists beyond our collective knowing. If God is everything (and I hate using the term "God" because it carries with it too many icons and symbolism), then God is part of what you deem "beyond natural."

God or "All" may exist whether or not you believe in it. Your belief does not change it or negate it, it just changes you. If I am hiding a marble in my pocket, just because you don't know it's there---doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If you wanted irrefutable proof of an "All's" existence, how would you demand that it show up? There are no irrefutable ways because there is no such thing as objectivity; that is, complete objectivity. Once again, everything that's experienced is experienced by you, and you may experience it any way you wish because it is experienced through the filter that is you. You may experience it differently from the way I'm experiencing it, therefore, everything I say is refutable by someone else.

What if God chose a human icon to present himself as, landed on the White House lawn in a chariot and said, "I am God!" The Muslims would say, "That is not God! He doesn't look Muslim!" The Catholics would say, "That is not God! He doesn't look like Jesus!" The Government would lock him up and through away the key. Everyone would argue over whether or not that was God. How could God best present himself? In a way that EVERYBODY would believe? Obviously, there is no perfect way.

God is not a person. He is just "All." The energy and the force behind life. Look at your life as a snow globe. We are living here within a snow globe and reality (the "All") is everything outside of that, never ending, and always.

I saw a ghost once when I was 19 years old. Scared the he** out of me. Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen, and doesn't mean that ghosts don't exist.

reply to post by Misoir


Wow Hypocracy abounds.