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Roswell Case Closed: what really happened

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posted on May, 9 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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A while back the air force released a document known as "roswell case closed" the link is provided below:

Roswell Case Closed

I read this a long time ago and reread it again recently. When I read it a long time ago I passed it off as nonsense, it just didnt feel right my gut told me for too many reasons. It might have been my sixth or even seventh sense that told me something isnt right here. Over time I have thought about the various conclusions drawn and there are some terrible inaccuracies and inconsistence in the document.

The following I am not sure on, the Air force claims they dropped dummies. The air force didnt technically exist until 1947 so that seems bogus. They did exist in another form technically but not in some capacity where the dropping of dummies was being done. In fact from research I have done since first reading it I dont see any kind of atmospheric research until the early 1950's. Roswell occurred prior to this though.

This brings me to that balloon. Many in the air force want to pass off believers as crackpots and kooks who just "dont get it". They say this using the explanation that it was a weather balloon. Now a household name among ufologists the air force claimed it was a rogue balloon from experiments being conducted under the name "Project Mogul".

Project mogul as an explanation is a complete work of fiction. Something that seems derived merely to discredit UFO believers and researchers. Using science as a pillar and a foundation to crush the beliefs that many hold dear, by using the skillful use of the argument of scientific logic to crush the hopes of those look into the Roswell mystery.

So being a scientist I used the kind of guidelines I have had to work under and applied them to this Project Mogul Explanation and the Alien explanation given by the air force. They claim a balloon went off course and was lost. IF THIS WAS SO TOP SECRET HOW COME A FARMER FOUND IT! they had noone looking for it? the scientists just sat on their hands and then began to cover up their loss of this superior technology by not telling anyone in hopes noone would find it? That would put all of their jobs at risk. If this was the case, it would not have been hard to simply follow the transmission from the equipment and prevailing wind patterns to determine an area for planes to search for the missing balloon. For a TOP SECRET project they sure didnt bother to go find their lost balloon. If it was so secret they concocted an entire UFO cover story, how come they couldnt be bothered to dispatch one Marshall to contact local sheriff offices to keep an eye out? or one plane to perform a standard search? They engineered a national coverup with front page news over a balloon they lost but couldnt be bothered to dispatch one plane? or even pick up a phone to contact local park rangers, local police or anyone?

This is the conclusion if they want to say that Project Mogul was the balloon. They didnt care enough to go look for it, so they created a national cover stroy to draw attention to it? The scientists are all traitors who tried to cover up the loss of a balloon, or 12 year olds with add who forgot about it. neither of which make sense, if their scientists and working for the government its a pretty safe bet their not total idiot mad scientists.

So lets just play along now and go with their explanation of it being a weather balloon. That would lead me to a follow up question. Where did it go? There was enough manpower dispatched for a small invasion and yet there is no paperwork? if it was a balloon and part of a project where scientists keep journals and logs and officers keep detailed reports of progress, why isnt this listed anywhere? Where is the paperwork showing that the scientists examined the debris? There would be tons of paperwork on this! anyone in the government at all, or involved in research projects can account for this. Even when I play along with their story it doesnt pan out AT ALL! there is no documentation of where it went, who examined it and what was done with the results. There is also no reports of anyone losing a balloon, which would imply a group of renegade scientists just sending balloons aloft without any oversight which is IMPOSSIBLE.

Then they try saying there were dummies. What is that some perfect storm of military eff ups from multiple research projects that happened to all land in the exact same area? Those dummies which were not being used for atmospheric research that I can find at that time throws that out the window. If this was true it would be like if the Wright brothers were flying planes around before their kittyhawk. Even if I play along with their story, it doesnt make any sense. First of all if they were dummies the point of dropping them is to ANALYZE THEM! once again how would they just lose them? Even if it happened on the same day, and the same wind currents carried them there. Then once again were left with a group of rogue scientists who tried to cover it up by not telling anyone. Or suddenly the military didnt care about their own tests to save pilots and dint bother to find these things? so if that was true once again where are the dummies? where is the paperwork? now they lose things TWICE, and there isnt one memo, reprimand or ANYTHING! This excuse may work for skeptics who just want some ammo to throw in the face of believers, but there is nothing to back up what they say. I cant find ANYTHING, not one document, telegraph or anything.

Lets go with this wind idea for a moment. Maybe the wind blew them all to the same place by chance. Then again by chance both projects failed and crashed at the same place. Ok fair enough lets go with that. Then the next logical question would be what were the wind patterns on that day?
here is the data on the weather station there:
Roswell Weather Station 1946-1950
If you look at the station data that day if these were projects were carried there by wind, then why is the wind blowing the other way??? the records are right there black and white and plain as day.

My final conclusion, we still dont know what happened at Roswell. These explanations given are claims that are just as wild as UFO claims if not moreso. I cant use science to argue their science because they offer no scientific explanations. What I am using is my logic from being in science to critically analyze their explanations. Once I apply logic to their explanations and ask well where are the records? or why would you lose them? there is no answer? though apparently it was such a big deal they concocted this entire elaborate hoax to cover it up for the lulz? that just defies logic. Believers seem to be truth seekers in my opinion. People who may be scientists or amateur scientists who conduct this research as a hobby. All I have is degrees to validate my scientific backgrounds, but einstein was a amateur scientist and I think we can all agree, he was a pretty smart guy for someone without a degree to back him up. Next time I hear someone calling ufologists a bunch of crackpots for believing, Im going to bring up how they are a crackpot or a sheep if they think that government story "Roswell Case Closed" is anything more then a fairy tale since none of it adds up logically or scientifically.




[edit on 9-5-2010 by tigpoppa]




posted on May, 9 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 

Certainly, I agree with most of your observations. I still have an open mind when it comes to Roswell. One thing that I am absolutely certain about, though, is that the latest in a series of lies by the Air Force, namely the "Case Closed" document, is anything BUT the truth. It is, in fact, a very shoddily written report, that has more holes in it, than a well-aged block of Swiss Cheese.
Good post.
Starred and Flagged.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 





This is the conclusion if they want to say that Project Mogul was the balloon.


S & F'd

I always thought that Project Mogul was confirmed to have begun after Roswell thereby confirming the use of the Project Mogul explanation was for obvious deniability reasons regarding Roswell. Is this not the case?

And I got to add that the closer examination of the Roswell letter just put it over the top for me. Marcel didn't know that one day we would the technology to read the contents of the letter in his hand. The part showing the words of "victims", "craft" and "beings" convinced me.


[edit on 5/9/2010 by mikelee]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by mikelee


I always thought that Project Mogul was confirmed to have begun after Roswell thereby confirming the use of the Project Mogul explanation was for obvious deniability reasons regarding Roswell. Is this not the case?


I agree with you there, as I stated I could find no real records as you state until the early 1950's. Then I described well lets consider maybe they did have a project before that, rather then just pass it off as not occurring yet. Even if it did exist, the evidence of the balloon ending up there is not supported by the wind pattens. Also if it did exist, then once again you end up with the question, what happened to that balloon? why wasnt it analyzed? where did it go? They recorded everything back then, like we do today, their bureaucrats. So even if you go with the idea that project mogul existed, where is the paperwork of the recovery of this lost balloon? Yet even if we assume it did exist there are no records of any activity after its collection. which is IMPOSSIBLE! ill believe there is no documentation from scientific logs, journals, and oversight reports, when you show me an accountant who doesnt balance their checkbook.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 


They stated Project Mogul (basing this on what I have read only) was the "cause" of Roswell regarding what they found but as you say, it wasn't "on paper" or in the books until years after Roswell so one must be convinced that it is either a deception or perhaps someone with knowledge of the then upcoming classified Project Mogul used it as a cover by prematurily mentioning it as the Roswell debris. In the case of the latter if true, clearly indicates a planned deception of what really happened.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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While I appreciate your logic, and well thought out ideas on this long debated event, I have to say the one thing I disagree with you on the most is when you said "These explanations given are claims that are just as wild as UFO claims if not moreso." That would be a little more so than the other. The idea that an alien race visiting planet earth, whether than or for thousands of years is so over the top, so more unbelievable than man could walk on the sun.

I do believe something happen at Roswell, I believe it relates to more of a top secret spying tool the U.S was developing. Yes! They may have lost where it went, the equipment they used to monitor those things at the time was not very good, and with a major thunder storm reported that night it was very possible they lost the thing.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 


I do not remember where I saw them, perhaps you or some other member knows. But early photos of Project Mogul material looked very different in early photos then, after connecting it to Roswell the material took on the appearence of what they presented as "debris from Roswell". Anyone notice that before?

Or, it could be that what was presented actually was from Project Mogul without mentioning where it came from.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by Mr_skepticc
 


I can get my mind around your opinion and agree that it MAY have been something top secret

My only concern is why hasn't it been cleared up by now if the government didn't cover anything up? Roswell is deeply rooted in the American fabric unlike many other conspiracys. This goes much deeper than just a secret gadget or spy toy. Again, I agree with you in the fact that since it isn't clear on what really went on (or down) in Roswell and sure, there's a chance it could have been something inocolous as a spy device. I do not rule that possibility out. But I have a very difficult time thinking that whatever it was cannot be divulged to this very day given the limitations of technology then compared to today, would make it outdated in today's advances.

[edit on 5/9/2010 by mikelee]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
While I appreciate your logic, and well thought out ideas on this long debated event, I have to say the one thing I disagree with you on the most is when you said "These explanations given are claims that are just as wild as UFO claims if not moreso." That would be a little more so than the other. The idea that an alien race visiting planet earth, whether than or for thousands of years is so over the top, so more unbelievable than man could walk on the sun.


I never said any such thing that aliens are visiting, if I meant that i would have said it. You can take what I said and take it however you like, I appreciate you reading it.



I do believe something happen at Roswell, I believe it relates to more of a top secret spying tool the U.S was developing. Yes! They may have lost where it went, the equipment they used to monitor those things at the time was not very good, and with a major thunder storm reported that night it was very possible they lost the thing.


What you believe and what the facts are, exist in completely separate realms of plausibility. Your looking at the issue on a basis of faith that there was possibly some spy program, that faith belongs in religion not critical analysis. The thunderstorm that night would not have prevented people from searching for it the second it was off course. Scientists dont go around losing top secret projects. That would be like if we just happened to lose a stealth bomber, this isnt hollywood and its not the movie Hunt for Red october, where they lose an entire submarine. If it was a secret spy program keep in mind it wasnt that secret when they drew attention to it with a front page story. yea lets turn a farmers sighting which wasnt in print into a national front page story. They could ahve just paid him off or intimidated him, member at the time everyone loved the US and would do as their told. So it wouldnt be hard, yet they went out of their way to create a national stir over a balloon. iThose types of arguments they just dont hold up. a balloon or dummies wouldnt warrant that kind of exposure. If they did all that for a balloon they didnt do anything when that model plane company made the model of the secret spy plane public when it was still classified. I do appreciate your enthusiasm and am interested in your critiques. Since I also ask questions like you do as to what really happened out there. Sure would sort this whole bag of snakes out if it we could figure it out.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:37 PM
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I think the truth rests in those first, early reports because everything that was reported in those days had to come from people on the ground at the scene as there was no phones (celluar) or e-mail to cause mass confusion and a tainted battery of information like we often deal with today because technology overload. Reporters who have made statements about Roswell have always said that they believed the Army found a flying saucer and it's alien cargo without a doubt. There are simply too many people who have sworn to what was found to be a disc and not just a balloon or device for spying purposes.






July 8, 1947 article:


RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region

No Details of Flying Disk Are Revealed

Roswell Hardware Man and Wife Report Disk Seen


The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.

According to information released by the department, over authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel, intelligence officer, the disk was recovered on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff Geo. Wilcox, here, that he had found the instrument on his premises.

Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the ranch and recovered the disk, it was stated.

After the intelligence officer here had inspected the instrument it was flown to higher headquarters.

The intelligence office stated that no details of the saucer's construction or its appearance had been revealed.

Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who saw what they thought was a flying disk.

They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed.

Wilmot called Mrs. Wilmot's attention to it and both ran down into the yard to watch. It was in sight less then a minute, perhaps 40 or 50 seconds, Wilmot estimated.

Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour.

In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed, together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would inside, though not like it would be if a light were merely underneath.

From where he stood Wilmot said that the object looked to be about 5 feet in size, and making allowance for the distance it was from town he figured that it must have been 15 to 20 feet in diameter, though this was just a guess.

Wilmot said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time.

The object came into view from the southeast and disappeared over the treetops in the general vicinity of six mile hill.

Wilmot, who is one of the most respected and reliable citizens in town, kept the story to himself hoping that someone else would come out and tell about having seen one, but finally today decided that he would go ahead and tell about it. The announcement that the RAAF was in possession of one came only a few minutes after he decided to release the details of what he had seen.
Roswell Daily Record

And as I said earlier in this thread, the Ramey letter just proves beyond anything else of what it was on that night it crashed. For me anyway.


Roswellproof.com

[edit on 5/9/2010 by mikelee]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 


Touching on your reply here....

If it was a balloon then Roswell would not be an issue today. I believe that speaks volumes without any further discussion in regards to it being anything other than a disc.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 


Dear tigpoppa

It all began with this “RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region” from the Roswell Daily Record.

This press release was issued by Colonel William "Butch" Blanchard who was the commanding officer at the 509th Operations Group (509 OG) and went on to be promoted to 4 star General.

So if you where to believe that what was found near Roswell at that time was any sort of Balloon which would consist of string, tin foil, balsa wood, and rubber. You must also believe that the most powerful bomber group in the world was being commanded by an idiot.

So for me case closed is totally out of the window.

Other explanations surround Project Paper Clip. Mostly out of White Sands. Nazi flying saucers etc,. So lets go whit that for a bit. The PPC boffins loose a Top secret Craft. OK no one wants that to go public in fact one wants anybody to know these Nazi Boffins are there at all. So the secret is to be understood totally.

Now what gets me about this is no one is looking for it. If you where in their shoes what would be the very first thing you would do. Well I would be on the phone to any base that could possibly have been in the area that may have reports of a downed craft. Even down to contacting local sheriff’s offices. However when Major Jesse Marcel went to inspect the debris on the report of William "Mac" Brazel he had no idea what he was going to find.

If you take just these inarguable facts it adds up to something spectacular. Certainly not what we have been told.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by mikelee
 


The only reason i left out witness testimony is because it would open the door to the subjective interpretation of memories. This is easy for skeptics to attack and understandably so, since memories are pliable even if the event just occurred 10 seconds ago, or 10 years ago. These people do exist and their statements support that do not support any kind of spy doohickey falling from the sky. in regards to it being some unknown project. lets consider real secret projects, from the internet that were using now, to even jet propulsion systems, satellite imaging or the plating on the stealth aircraft, or how about wire guided missle systems. These things are far more far reaching yet none of them are classified anymore. The truth is that something happened there. Something the government could not account for at the time and today will not admit too. Believers are in the right for their lines of inquiry and even skeptics in a sense are believers. not a single skeptic knows what happened. They are in this for the answers just like the believers the only difference I ever noticed was in their underlying hypothesis. Since neither have any data to support them, they are both equally possible. When a person takes a side to say that the skeptic hypothesis or the believer hypothesis is improbable, it is an unfair assumption. Both hypotheses are equally likely and both groups are searching for the same thing, answers. afterall who knows one hundred years from now aliens might be as common place as reruns on nick at night. As demonstrated in the movie "Back to the Future" in 1955 they didnt know what a rerun was, and they couldnt even comprehend their existence. Today we accept reruns as commonplace, one hundred years from now noone can say what will or will not be commonplace, skeptics would be the last ones to consider themselves Nostradamus. Discounting the possibility of UFOS if they do come to exist will be just as silly as when we all laughed seeing their reaction to Marty talking about reruns in the movie "back to the future" where the people at that time didnt know what reruns were in 1955 and couldnt foresee them ever being a possibility.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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My best guess is it was an attempt by some angry Japanese scientists to spread a virus via 3 bodies using this technique. www.bookmice.net...

Very cheap way of doing germ warfare. It would account for most of the factors involved with this case.

Note: If the bodies went high enough to freeze it would have weakened or killed off most pathogens.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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As I understand it, Project Mogul was meant to be "listening" for evidence of Russian Nuclear tests. Now, if was "listening" one would assume it did so using highly sensitive microphones?

Now this is where, as a sound engineer myself, I have a problem and would love to know how they managed to circumvent said problem. You drape a microphone off of a balloon at great heights and most of the noise you will hear is wind noise. The chances of "hearing" a Russian Nuclear test, to my mind would be somewhere between, very little and errr well, one white duck on your wall.

The practicalities of the Mogul Project are just so damned random as to make them, to my eyes, a tad laughable as a serious scientific operation. What's more, in all that debris ever since the Mogul explanation, has anyone ever mentioned finding, or losing, a microphone? How was the data from the microphone collected, transmitted and collated? This is prior to satellite technology. If the data was transmitted live it must have been to a ground tracking station. Ever heard anyone from the Mogul project ever give details of the data they received and how it was decoded?

The Japanese Foogu balloons utilised the jet stream to travel across the Pacific, jet streams move pretty quick can you imagine the ambient noise of the wind through a microphone at that speed? You'd be hard pushed to hear an atom bomb going off next to one of these balloons. Surely the Moguls, to carry out their mission, must have carried some sort of radio device to transmit the data back to base? This was 1947 we are talking valve technology. Has anyone ever heard of any parts of a radio being found in the crash debris. It's interesting that neither the USAAF or, the people, who worked on Mogul, have ever offered to explain this, to my mind, glaring omission.

Yes, we hear of the spars and foil from a balloon train, but zilch, nada, when it comes to the actual technology that would have made the Mogul anything more than, just a balloon. Surely, after all this time it would do no harm for the operational technology, supposedly used by the missions, to be revealed and an explanation given of, exactly how it worked?



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


This is true the commanding officer of the base was eventually promoted to a four star general and had an excellent service record. Four star generals are not made up of people who constantly lose their secret projects in the desert. (If all of these lost projects stories were true. Then it looks like we have a new type of bermuda triangle in the desert. The real bermuda triangle swallows planes and boats, apparently in the middle of the desert there is a new bermuda triangle only swallows secret projects, and has the sole purpose of peeving off scientists.) Officer ranks are very competitive and he was have gotten the boot for losing one secret project let alone two in one year. Even if they were nazi aircraft their ours now so their not nazi anymore. Project paperclip is public now so if it was foreign scientists who developed them then it wouldnt be a big deal to have released that info since they released all that other stuff about them and their work.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 


Dear FireMoon

From FireMoon “Now this is where, as a sound engineer myself, I have a problem and would love to know how they managed to circumvent said problem. You drape a microphone off of a balloon at great heights and most of the noise you will hear is wind noise. The chances of "hearing" a Russian Nuclear test, to my mind would be somewhere between, very little and errr well, one white duck on your wall.”

Sorry to upset you here but a balloon is carried by the wind and therefore has no wind noise. You are at peace in a windless environment. Sorry about that.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 


Dear tigpoppa

I love secrets and trying to figure out what really happened and Roswell is my favorite one. To the point where I disregard other stuff I really should be doing.

The one thing that troubles me about Blanchard is that even after his fopare in most likely releasing the truth in the first place they still promoted him. Indeed may be this was because they could not do anything else.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by tigpoppa
 


Dear tigpoppa

The fact is that if it where ours the wreckage that is nothing about it could possibly remain a secret or more to the point be worthy of remaining a secret 63 years on.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by Mr_skepticc
 


Good points but I have to take you to task on one thing. You said that aliens visiting earth, was as likely as man walking on the sun.

Like I've said in other posts: If you take the age of the universe and the number of possible life giving planets and then just reason that one of those planets could have produced intelligent life as we have here on earth, except that this species 'could' be billions of years more advanced than us. That gives a little perspective that alien visitation "could" be a possibility. no?

Imagine where we would be given another million or billion years of evolution-technologically speaking.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by amazing]




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