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Roswell Case Closed: what really happened

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posted on May, 16 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by jasmine23
reply to post by nightwing
 
Your question about the nurse in the case that Glenn knew was a army nurse,which if i recall from reading on this case and if the story was true she died under odd circumstances,just as some other man involved in this case ,someone in the need to know group,can't recall his name was either pushed are accidently fell,hmm out of a hotel room are hospital have to look it up again, maybe you know and can tell me his name


Glenn Dennis lied to us about the nurse, even Kent Jeffrey who knows and likes him admits that:
www.roswellfiles.com...

Although I know and like Glenn Dennis on a personal level, I have to say that his story has lost all credibility. Glenn, incidentally, has been fully aware of the fact that researchers have been spending time and resources in an effort to locate a Naomi Self.

There was already significant circumstantial evidence to indicate that no such nurse ever existed, when a diligent young researcher from Arizona, Vic Golubic, all but confirmed the fact. He located the records of the Cadet Nurse Corps, where all nurses for the military were trained during the mid-1940s. When Golubic checked with Dennis about the correct spelling of Self and informed him about the Cadet Nurse Corps records, Dennis changed his story, telling Golubic that Self was not really the correct last name after all. Dennis, without giving a good reason for not doing so, also refused to tell Golubic the real last name. Sorry, Glenn, end of story.


So probably everything you're read or heard about the nurse is a lie, or at least there seems to be no reason to give ANY credibility to the nurse story at this point. There's no doubt he lied about her name, he's already admitted that (he was kind of forced to since no nurse with that name ever existed).




posted on May, 16 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 
Well i guess we never will find out the true story of Roswell not unless they decide to come out with full disclosure which i don't see that happening



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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For jasmine23,
"Your question about the nurse in the case ..."

My apology if you interpreted the information I referenced you to as a question. It was not. It was intended to solicit a response from you that would give me some idea as to which of the Glenn Dennis testimonies you have accepted or are most inclined toward. Your above quote and follow on answer indicate your inclination toward the 1989 testimony, where the "odd circumstances" would be an alleged plane crash. I would really be thrilled to find someone who buys into the 1993 testimony where the aircraft crash was a cover and the nurse actually disappeared into a convent. (She was allegedly Catholic) Sometimes there is remarkable humor in research. On that topic, I see you answered your own question regarding America's first Secretary of Defense. I hoped to encourage you to research a bit on your own. I will give you good marks for the 18th floor (just from memory I think it may have been the 16th) but the hospital should be a name recognition thing. It was Bethesda Naval Hospital. The next step is to learn to sort out the speculation from what few historical data points are available.

For FireMoon,
"It wans't a death bed bed confession. it was one of the last things a dying man told his daughter at a time"

I think we share the same humor. I could not define the phrase "death bed confession" better than you just did.

"The lass did tell a few friends over the years, about his tale and it was only in 1996 when the film Roswell was released was it that, her friends said..."

Yes, that's the lyrics of "heard it from a friend who....heard it from a friend who...." But lets get serious for something. If the lass was ever interviewed and gave legal testimony (affidavits etc) then her testimony may be properly and legally time tagged. If that legal time tag does predate 1978, then two things are true. It becomes rare testimony and every modern researcher may be wanting to deluge her with interviews based upon the early testimony. If you know the lass, and know that there is a legal time tag to her testimony as prior to 1978, you might consider the kindness of not to identify her further in such a public venue as this.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by jasmine23
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 
Well i guess we never will find out the true story of Roswell not unless they decide to come out with full disclosure which i don't see that happening


That assumes that we haven't already had full disclosure. I'm open-minded enough to not make that assumption.

Either we have had full disclosure, or we haven't. Both options seem possible to me. The Air Force admitted it only checked Air Force records in its investigation, which leaves open the possibility that other records exist in some other branch of the military or government that haven't been disclosed yet. And an insider has admitted we almost didn't get disclosure of the Air force records, and there was a lot of resistance to it. And of course the 1995 Air force report admits itself that some people will think that it's just replacing one lie with another lie.

If we have had full disclosure already, we may never see any further disclosure.

If we haven't had full disclosure already, we won't know it until additional disclosure takes place. It's a little too late for any surprise witnesses to pop up, as the grim reaper is already harvesting those who were adults in 1947. But some death-bed confessions might be forthcoming, who knows? I'm surprised we haven't had more of those already.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 05:09 AM
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I think it is unfortunate when the obvious truisms seem to exceed people's capacity to imagine them as possible.

WHISTLE BLOWER
is an anagram (exact same letters as):
BE WITH ROSWELL

wake up, or just be another disinformation agent who isn't even getting paid.

note: edited to fix typo (left the p out of capacity)

[edit on 17-5-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 05:31 AM
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I personally entertain the idea that we may certainly be enduring "alien" visitations.

I also personally entertain the ideology that reality may not be as flawed as humanity's fears and hates imagine it is.


laws? (laws are history's prejudices in charge of social engineering, so long as fear and hate are maintained, authority remains)

fear and hate blind people to the fact that they never live long enough to learn all the laws to life or rules to the game.

Do you know what your government spends your money on?
what motivates you not to know?

Are we going to pass the Roswell Forward to future generations, without knowing for certain within this generation?

PASCIFISTS .... PASS A FIST

are skeptics cowards in denial?





[edit on 17-5-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Are we going to pass the Roswell Forward to future generations, without knowing for certain within this generation?


We can only pass forward what we do have, and not what we don't have.

And the most credible evidence about something that happened in 1947 is information that was recorded in 1947. So unless and until we get more disclosure of some old documents, or something else useful, what we've got to pass forward is what we've got.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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So probably everything you're read or heard about the nurse is a lie, or at least there seems to be no reason to give ANY credibility to the nurse story at this point. There's no doubt he lied about her name, he's already admitted that (he was kind of forced to since no nurse with that name ever existed).


Actually, I remember there was a police officer whose testimony seemed to bolster Dennis' story about the nurse. I'll have to review the Roswell info to see if I had his name and statement, I think it may even be in my Roswell threads. Of course, I was always a bit unsure of Dennis too...

My contention remains that regardless of even the witnesses (some have even been shown to be fraudulent)...the military's own actions betray that they recovered debris that was:

1. Foreign in origin (as evidenced by the flights of the debris to bases known for being specialists in examining foreign technology)
and
2. Secret enough to have kept it under wraps for over 50 years...
and
3. Still being kept covered up by the Mogul cover story (and even the ludicrous Project High Dive cover story), which simply doesn't add up.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by Gazrok]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Mr_skepticc
 


This is a reply to mr. skepticc and anyone else confused about Roswell. The only unkown about the crash near Roswell is only what caused 2 extraterrestrial craft to crash that night. One disintegrated over Brazel's ranch and one embedded in the desert sand with a few surviving entities. It was either the electrical storm that night, radar interference, or something else entirely. The interest or rather concern in new mexico for some of the entities was the above ground atomic testing. This was a major problem for our planet and it's importance in the cosmos. The military's interest was to obtain technology and gain a military advantage over our enemies and now add other races from other worlds to that list. ( how dare they tresspass our airspace and not obey our rules! ) Over the years of a policy of" Deny and Ridicule " our government and other world governments have been successful in keeping a lid on the truth. We have obtained many benefits aside from the military weapons...fiber optics, nano technology, lasers, zero-point energy, night vision and most recently remote viewing. Will post more.



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 
For me disclosure was made by Col. Phillip Corso in 1997 (albeit without the blessings of the military establishment) Corso's book " The Day after Roswell" outlines his task as research and development specialist charged with the handling of the "artifacts" from the crash at Roswell and the benefits for the military as well products for civilian uses from fortunate corporations assigned the military contracts. The next best disclosure is the
2001 press club news conference with Dr. Steven Greer and to date the 2010 X-conference.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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I think I see where you were going with your three point post, Gaz. As in past times, while I tend to agree with your direction, it is the details where we have disputes, so I will do my best to stay away from that and try to aim in your original direction. The choice of words is necessarily careful to be inclusive of both sides of any dispute. I will start with your first point and replace the parens portion because it is one-sided and does not include the historical data that shows "bases known for being specialists in examining foreign technology" were also bases with over-site of domestic technology. Instead, I replace it with a historical, and non-refutable piece of data.

The debris found at Roswell was initially considered to be:

1. Of unidentified origin and assumed to be related to a new, also unknown phenomena just beginning to be the focus of public attention.
Exhibit A. The AAF news release to the Roswell Daily Record, published on 8 July 1947

2. The best security procedures of the day were not adequate to protect our highest secrets for more than a few months.
Exhibit B. The purpose of Project Mogul was an attempt to detect a soviet nuclear test which would be their successful duplication of our Manhattan Project (and maybe faster than we accomplished it the first time).

3. Within 24 hours of the original press release, the AAF identified the materials in their possession from number 1 above.
Exhibit C and et al... Pick a newspaper, lots of historical data points.

Now, lets break down number three above into two parts, also historical and I would be interested in data points that make this section refutable.

A. The "Roswell Incident" had NOT occurred yet, unless you can find some historical records prior to 1978 that talk about it. The AAF identification first publicly published on 9 July 47 was the last official word on the subject for how many years ? The events of Roswell, 1947 dropped out of even the public eye for 31 years. But the phenomena mentioned in item 1 above did not.

This is the true "Case Closed", at least for 31 years. That is why I focus my own research to this time frame. The time frame is not a muddled mess and a breath a fresh air to research. Nobody is trying to crowd you out either.

B. The "Roswell Incident" as publicly known today begins, 1978. And the tale grows taller on down the line....Until we reach the point where speculation and fact overlap, are interchanged, and even believed by some.

Thank you for those two posts, kc dakota, perfect timing for an example.

"The only unknown about the crash near Roswell is only what caused 2 extraterrestrial craft to crash that night. One disintegrated over Brazel's ranch and one embedded in the desert sand with a few surviving entities."

Wow ! Can't argue with that, but I think I did see that episode on the new Outer Limits.

"It was either the electrical storm that night, "

Which night ? They are rare but some weather records for the area still exist.

"radar interference"

Unlikely, as the RAAF base did not have a radar that early in time.

".. or something else entirely."

Bingo ! Pure speculation. Can't argue with that so I will not.

After pondering paragraph B above with example, I believe the US Air Force with their Case Closed Report attempted to do the very thing I try to avoid. They addressed the "post 1978 Roswell Incident" and attempted to argue against pure speculation. Lesson is don't wrestle with a pig, you both get slimy and the pig likes it.



posted on May, 18 2010 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
1. Foreign in origin (as evidenced by the flights of the debris to bases known for being specialists in examining foreign technology)

A little while back in this thread I posted the story of a guy who worked on the skyhook balloons, including Mogul, for decades, and even he didn't know what Mogul was until it was declassified 50 years later. So one possibility is, that nobody who found it knew what it was, just as the Air Force claims. So if they didn't know what it was, maybe they had it flown to the foreign technology office to see whether or not it was of foreign origin? I mean, they probably knew it was a balloon but they might not have known whether it was ours or not. And the Popular Mechanics article states they think it's a Japanese craft so that would be consistent with a foreign origin, but I don't find their story particularly credible.



2. Secret enough to have kept it under wraps for over 50 years...
and
3. Still being kept covered up by the Mogul cover story (and even the ludicrous Project High Dive cover story), which simply doesn't add up.


Well I think you have a point there, in the fact that the idea of a microphone attached to a big balloon would get the same security classification as the atomic bomb seems really silly to me. But I can draw more than one possible conclusion from this observation. Either,
A. They were covering something up, as you suggest, which still hasn't been disclosed, or
B. They did something silly like keeping Mogul secret for 50 years. If you say "the Air force wouldn't do anything that silly", I'd ask you "why not?". I'll bet if I scoured their records I could find cases where they sent paychecks to dead people, and sure they might not do that intentionally, but silly things can happen in an organization like that, perhaps some intentional and some not intentional.

US air chiefs sacked for nuclear blunders


The air force admitted in March to sending Taiwan nuclear fuses that it believed were helicopter batteries, a gaffe that one senior defence official called "disconcerting".
On the scale of silly things to do, that kind of dwarfs forgetting to declassify a microphone attached to a big balloon, don't you think? Though perhaps you could argue they didn't really send nuclear fuses to Taiwan because that would be too silly, it must be a coverup of something else? Or maybe they just did some silly things.

I'm sure there was a second crash somewhere, but I'm not sure it was in was 1947 at the same time as the Roswell crash, I'm open minded to the idea but I've just seen no good evidence of that. Obviously I'm a little skeptical about recollections people have about dates 3 decades earlier, since I can't even remember what I had for lunch 30 days ago.


So the Airforce explanation of operation High dive might be total baloney, but I'm not convinced whether it is or isn't. If I'm in 1980 or 1990 trying to remember whether something that happened a long time ago happened in 1947, or 1954, I don't find it as implausible as some people do that I might not be able to remember which of those two years it happened. Either one would be a really long time ago.

There is another possibility too, if Stanton Friedman is correct, that the Air Force might have already shared what is in their files, and the real secret is in someone else's files.

www.ufoevidence.org...


Despite the disappointing document disclosure by the National Archives and the discovery that Kaufmann had altered his military records, Friedman says it is premature to close the books on Roswell. He believes convincing evidence of an alien landing exists but that it has yet to be disclosed. And he says he knows exactly where to find it--in vaults at the National Reconnaissance Office and the Central Intelligence Agency.


If I recall correctly, the Air Force said it only checked its own files, so if the real secret is in the CIA or NRO files as Friedman suggests, the Air Force wouldn't have included that information in their disclosure.



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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"If I recall correctly, the Air Force said it only checked its own files, so if the real secret is in the CIA or NRO files as Friedman suggests, the Air Force wouldn't have included that information in their disclosure."

Arbitrageur,

I would be inclined to wonder how the CIA would have become a repository. Although their history relates to what I would call a haphazard "pot luck" mix of historical agencies and efforts, they did not exist historically until after the National Security Act of 1947 was passed by congress. This act was passed on 25 July, 1947 and became law on 26 July 1947. This act also created the US Air Force as a separate service as opposed to an Army subset. The official date for transfer of AAF personnel to the USAF is 18 Sept, 1947. (A lot of people being transferred but nobody was really going anywhere.)

Based upon that, the US Army would seem to be an obvious addition to the possible file locations Friedman originally suggested. Hidden in plain sight, maybe?



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by nightwing
 


Nightwing, your comments make sense to me. I was reporting what Friedman claimed without necessarily agreeing with it.

Your thought that the Army would be a more likely source to find something than the CIA is logical to me.

But it would be interesting to get Friedman's thoughts on why he thinks the CIA might have something. I suspect it has something to do with the CIA FOIA documents Friedman has that look like this:

Friedman posted this CIA document:


[edit on 19-5-2010 by Arbitrageur]



posted on May, 19 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by jasmine23
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 
Well i guess we never will find out the true story of Roswell not unless they decide to come out with full disclosure which i don't see that happening



Aliens crashed in Roswell and the government covered it up, and we've been lied to for the past 60 years and expect to be dumb enough to swallow it.

A week ago I was a skeptic, wondered what the hell people were talking when I watched video about the canadian defense minister, but after doing all my research, including Roswell.

I've concluded that it is way beyond a reasonable doubt that it is real, I see it, I think and I can feel it, and would BET my life upon the fact that it is true.



posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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sorry I been away. I travel alot to see the world.

Anyways I find this topic still of relevant interest. Maybe Im just speaking for myself but the fact remains that the facts dont add up. The spirited discussion around this subject I noted in previous posts shows disagreement. I see some people who quote sources and others who argue using a perspective of opinion rather then the facts. Most notably this can be seen in posts that make claims that just boggle the human mind.

What will the next generation do with this? This is something that troubles me just do to the way the world works. Lets face it any anchorman will tell you a news story has a 72 hour shelf life. With that said this event though older is going to fade into obscurity possibly. The blacked out documents everyone has seen and the opinions of others will most likely wash this from the publics mind successfully in 7-10 years.

Ancient aliens is my favorite series currently that promotes the healthy discussion of ufology. There was a trend in documentaries made for a few years prior to that that used the CNN crossfire style of people arguing that simply just put off its viewers. Lets hear the facts and let the viewer decide, also cnn crossfire went off the air for being a show of hacks. For alot of people this is black and white, there are people who either accept the governments story or they formulate their own conclusions based on data presented to them. Those who choose the freedom to develop critically thought out conclusions are the ones who will finally uncover what the truth really is.

Going forward into the next generation I hope they continue to question the world around them. To learn about the world them and explore it. People who just believe what they are told have given up on the joys on life by becoming submissive to the wills of others. Rather then use the free will of their own to critically analyze this series of events.



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