HUGE!! CME just went off!

reply to post by MolecularPhD

A CME does not produce an EMP. The variation in the solar wind produced by a CME causes fluctuations in the Earth's magnetic field. Those fluctuations cause induced currents in electrical transmission lines. Those power surges are what cause problems. No problem for your iPod (unless it's plugging into a power outlet). No problem for your car. If we were not so dependent on electrical power, if we did not have our power and communications grids, a CME would have no effect on our lives at all.

Neutrino discharge? We have neutrinos flying though us all the time. They have no effect. The only way we would be aware of an increase in neutrino flux is by the use of neutrino detectors.

Gamma? Any gamma radiation released by the Sun gets here in 8 minutes, long before the effects of a CME and are of negligible levels. They are pretty much completely absorbed by the atmosphere.

[edit on 5/6/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage

Remember that big power outage they had in canada a few years ago? It turned out the lengths of the transmission lines were resonant at 60Hz, so they broke up the lengths so as to be nonresonant at 60Hz and they had no more problems.

reply to post by rothmans

I knew about the blackout. I didn't know about the relationship to the length of the transmission lines. Interesting.

reply to post by Phage

Yes well, of course you know how long one wavelength is at 60Hz so it sounds ridiculous, but 1/8, or 1/4 or some other harmonic of 60Hz is all you need to make transformers blow up during that kind of event, mind you the lines involved were very long, some of the longest in canada.



[edit on 6-5-2010 by rothmans]

PHAGE you need to check out soho now!!!!!!!!!
wtf is going on now 20100505-20100505 video triangular ufo top right? did something hit the sun prior to the flare? ANYONE?

reply to post by jazz10

Would you give the URL of the vid youre talking about??

reply to post by Phage


When the SUN produces a CME; it is in conjunction with the production of an EMP; the formation and cause of the CME could be directly related to an unstable magnetic field within the core of the SUN; several scientists have suggested that the creation of the CME itself could be from an EMP whereas the SUN's magnetic core is trying to stabilize itself so it belches out an EMP to release excess electromagnetic energy. Because, we cannot send any type of sensor into the coronal layer of the SUN; we have to make clear theories from observations only.

Your statement that neutrinos have no effect on a biological structure is ludicrous; and would site a study done by J. I. Collar from the University of South Carolina “Biological Effects of Stellar Collapse Neutrinos” in Nov. 1995.

“Negligibility of GAMA Radiation” WHAT? You need to stop reading what the idiots at “Wiki“write, and start by reading real science from the “International Atomic Energy Agency” which states that even in small dose “GAMA” can have a mutative effect on DNA at the subatomic level; as well as it is in unclear to the long term effects on a Biological system that has been exposed to “GAMA” with even a 2% increase in “GAMA”.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

reply to post by MolecularPhD

You said:

If any CME hit the earth its EMP, GAMA, and Neutrino burst produced has an effect on the earth; the effects are in direct comparison with the amounts and angle in which the CME is directed.

You were not talking about Solar flares (which could be considered an EMP), you were talking about what happens when a CME hits Earth. Whenever a Solar flare occurs on "our" side of the Sun the radiation hits Earth, it's omnidirectional. You're not suggesting it's some sort of beam are you? The "EMP" and gamma rays arrive at the speed of light, eight minutes after the event. Any increase in neutrino flux takes a bit longer. None of it has anything to do with if, where, or the direction of the CME hitting Earth.

Neutrinos? Well unless the Sun collapses we won't have any "stellar collapse neutrinos" arriving from it. Such emissions are far beyond the energy levels and densities produced by puny events like Solar flares (which are not always related to CMEs). In any case, that paper you cite was not entirely well received.

Extraterrestrial processes like neutrinos from collapsing stars, cosmic rays from supernovae and cosmic rays from neutron star mergers etc. have recently been proposed as models to explain the periodic mass extinctions such as that which wiped out the dinosaurs at the K-T boundary. Here we show that these models fail to give any reasonable explanation of several empirically established facts related to these mass extinctions.

arxiv.org...

Apparently your supposed massive influx of neutrinos from the great Solar flare of 1859 (the Carrington event) didn't wipe out life on Earth. We're still here.

I didn't say gamma radiation is harmless. I said the gamma radiation which results from a Solar flare (not the arrival of a CME) doesn't make it through the atmosphere, it is absorbed by oxygen and nitrogen. There is a lot of oxygen and nitrogen in the atmosphere. That is why we can only detect it in space. That is why extraterrestrial gamma rays were not detected until 1967. That is why the Fermi satellite is up there. Again, the 1859 did not have much of an effect other than burning out telegraph lines.


[edit on 5/6/2010 by Phage]

Has anyone checked out SOHO lasco c2 between 201004 and 20100506?

Heres a link to only one of many. Follow the object top right baring in mund theres a 30 min interval i think, then watch at roughly 11 oclock(sun been clock face) looks like something comes up dips down then massive flare?
sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Phage


Causality of a CME and Effect have a direct comparison; I disagree with your assessment of those effects. As for the 1859 occurrence; if the grid we have in place today existed in 1859; we would have had a global catastrophic effect. Simply put if those events were to occur today; we would have mass panic which would result in the deaths of millions if not hundreds of millions of people; as well as the deaths of many millions more over the course of 18 months which it would take to rebuild the current power systems in place, if you believe that an event like this could not possibly occur; "YOUR WRONG"

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

I would also like to put forth that many events that are being called CME's are better categorized as Hydra-Flares not CME's and would point to the obvious brightening of those areas to back up that statement. Calling them CME's just make them sound like they are no big deal; I would love to read the wave analysis from NASA; as I believe NASA is covering up a much bigger problem calling them CME's.


Respectfully

MolecularPHD

reply to post by MolecularPhD

Don't try to put words in my mouth then say I'm wrong because of them.

I did not say a large geomagnetic storm cannot cause problems. In fact, I said:

Those fluctuations cause induced currents in electrical transmission lines. Those power surges are what cause problems.

Yes, another Carrington event would have severe consequences today. I did not say it wouldn't. Those consequences would be a result of a geomagnetic storm. Not an EMP. Not neutrinos. Not gamma rays.


[edit on 5/6/2010 by Phage]

Back to 2010 from the 1800's and wondering if the alleged computer glitch that allegedly caused the biggest sell off in history (Dow's 1000 point drop in 1/2 an hour) was related to any of these recent (May 3 on) events. I agree with Molecular that something very serious has been taking place with the sun and, of course, I agree that we, the public, will be the last to know via mainstream media but we still have our own observations which we can share. Perhaps there are some simple precautions we could take if we were informed and perhaps there are some dastardly cover-uppers we could sue if we suffer because of not being informed. (Sorry...don't know how long the wiring in these computer systems is nor what capacity they run at but even ignorant of these vital statistics it seems prudent to plod on.)

reply to post by Phage


Yes and those transformers are effected by the Electromagnetic Pulse that would stem from such an occurrence; what do you think a Geomagnetic Storm is ? lol the fence posts that burst into flames had no electricity flowing through them; an "Electromagnetic Static Charge"? maybe. you think? And lets talk about the effects that such a charge could have on a biological system; I also love how you cited one disapproval from one scientist; but did not bother to post the approvals of that paper by other scientists; I would also point out that these effects that we are seeing right now could be prelude to a "Super WAVE" event; then what would happen? oh but you would simply say that can't possibly happen right?

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

reply to post by MolecularPhD

No.

You do know the difference between electromagnetic radiation, magnetism, and electricity don't you?

Electromagnetic Pulse. Electromagnetic radiation. Gamma rays. Xrays. Light. Radio. Things like that.

Geomagnetic storm. Key word "magnetic" (not electromagnetic). It is a disturbance of the Earth's magnetic field. Geomagnetic storms are caused by fluctuations in the solar wind which are caused by CMEs and other things.

As I said originally, the fluctuations of the magnetic field induce electrical currents (through magnetic induction, the same way a generator does it) in power transmission lines. It is these electrical (not electromagnetic) power surges which can damage transformers. Other electrical systems are not affected, only the power grid itself. Unless it is plugged into a wall socket at the time, your iPod will not be affected. Your laptop will not be affected. The computer in your car will not be affected. It is only lengthy electrical conductors (like wire fences, telegraph lines, power transmission lines, and even oil pipelines) which are directly affected.

You cited one paper, I cited a response to that paper. Looks like we're even unless you can come up with something else (like evidence that biological systems were affected by the Carrington event or other work backing yours up) my citation is as good as yours. However, and again, that paper theoretical and is talking about neutrinos produced by "massive stars in their final stages of collapse". I don't think the Sun is really considered a "massive" star and a CME is not really its final stage of collapse.

[edit on 5/6/2010 by Phage]

To help bring some light to the "what would happen to us if it was headed this way" questions.

Solar flares are theoretically one of the multitudes of possible ways life on earth (as we know it) would end, many doomsday documentaries focus heavily on solar activity as a source for widespread disruption.

First lets get a bit of info to help us understand exactly what a flare would do to earth.

2012: No Killer Solar Flare

The Earth has evolved in a highly radioactive environment. The Sun constantly fires high-energy particles from its magnetically dominated surface as the solar wind.

Simply put, this isn't our lovely planets first BBQ. She is actually quite well equipped at dealing with the effects of the sun, lets not forget, they've been dancing partners for a very long time. So we have to ask "if flares aren't all that scary then why all the fuss?"

While a solar flare may have no adverse physical effect on the planet (e.g people bursting into flames, the crust super heating to magma etc etc) there are some slightly less destructive side effects that would cause a massive problem for humanity.

Powerful Solar Storm Could Shut Down U.S For Months

Damage to power grids and other communications systems could be catastrophic, the scientists conclude, with effects leading to a potential loss of governmental control of the situation.

If a flare of a large enough magnitude occurred, and it just so happened to be pointed directly at the earth, there is a small chance the globes entire power grid could go offline, on top of this the interference caused by ionization in the ionosphere would cause most forms of radio transmission to be completely absorbed (thus made an ineffective form of communication). Some reports even suggest it could take months or even years to fix the widespread damage to the grid.

The ramifications of something this devastating are endless. A lack of communication alone is a scary thought, not to mention things like no heating, no refrigeration, no electrical cooking, no traffic lights, the list is endless. We would essentially be thrust back into the stone ages, and fast!

Just take a look around your house, assess your lifestyle and ask yourself "Could i survive with no electricity?". And now try to imagine this on a global scale...

reply to post by noomy

That's another point you bring up, regarding communications. A powerful Solar flare (as opposed to CME) can have strong effects on radio communications and satellites themselves. The effects of this electromagnetic radiation are felt as soon as the radiation from the flare reaches the satellites and the ionosphere, eight minutes after the event occurs. That electromagnetic radiation does not reach Earth's surface (except as light).

Not to be confused with the effects of a CME which is a geomagnetic storm.

[edit on 5/6/2010 by Phage]

First I want to thank the posters Phage, MolecularPhD, and the few others who are conversing about the Sun, its behaviors, and its affects on us. I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion between Page and MolecularPhD...Lord knows I could not debate with you guys.

So since I have caught you guys all in one place (and please everyone else feel very free to comment) I want to throw out the idea that CME's can affect humans.

I dont have science to back my thoughts...but I believe I experienced a 'jolt' from the geomagnetic storm that hit on May the 2nd. I also believe that this storm is what knocked out a transformer right by my house pretty much in the moment right before I felt the jolt/pulse/shock (how to describe it, I am still unsure).

I was as if I did drugs against my will...it was as if my entire enrgy was zapped and the affect lasted strongly for 30 mins and then took a couple hours to taper off.

I have a thread about it because after searching some things online the following days, I noticed alot of people talking about the same symptoms. I then noticed a poster attributing the strangeness to the geomagnetic storm.

For me, the transformer blowing and the jolt I felt was a ironic coincidence...dont you think? I have never felt like this in my life. I kept feeling dizzy and like I was on the verge of a heart attack.

Care to share thoughts or facts or opinions...anything...on the matter?

It was as if a wave of energy hit me, and knocked me out of myself. My mind went nuts, my body couldnt keep up with my mind, Im not a paranoid person....but I did think I was going insane the entire time.

Just a fast reply, thought, fact, or opinion....pls?

LV

reply to post by Phage


Thanks and yes i forgot to distinguish between the few different types of flares.
[EDIT] Actually scratch that, I didn't even know there was a difference between "flare" and "CME" - my bad, thanks phage for pointing that out.

So to clarify, a (regular?) solar flare would mess with radio signals and communication systems and a CME could damage our power grid (as seen in the past when power lines literally bust into flames) possibly shutting it down all together.

Did i get that right?

I also read about X-Flares? Something about flares that are primarily comprised of x-rays, thus harder for us to monitor. Would they have an adverse effect on our atmosphere and / or the planets surface?

[edit on 6/5/2010 by noomy]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Your observations and witness account are appreciated. Were you indoors or out? Didn't experience anything here - SW U.S. - on May 2 but did on May 1 when there was a fraction of a second total blackout and half a dozen people in the neighborhood complained of lack of energy, uselessness and so forth.