Southern Arizona is a war zone

I guess to me it seems pretty obvious why nothing is really being done to close the borders or to really enforce options to stem the flow of illegal immigration. Obama simply does not want to. Granted this has been an issue for many many years and feel free to throw some blame on Bush and Clinton, but Obama actively cut many Boarder Patrol agents positions, and even went as far to call the new Arizona immigration bill, misguided. Stating among other things that the new immigration bill "threatens to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans."

In Iraq or Afghanistan when a soldier is presented with an immediate threat to his safety or those around him he has the right to shoot first, granted if the powers that be actually allow him to do his job. Yet he is called a hero and a patriot for saving his life, those around him and to an extent the life of his country. Yet in America, if I were presented with a threat to my safety, the safety of others around me or the safety of my country I would be called a murderer, supremicist or terrorist.

These illegal immigrants are a threat to all of us and even our country, and we are all just supposed to what...sit around and wait to be over run because its the "American" thing to do? What would happen if We The People, actually stood up and said enough is enough, and whether through a show of force or not, demanded that something be done once and for all?

reply to post by lpowell0627


(regarding the suggestion to legalize cannabis) "This doesn't work. If the above happens, they apply for welfare. You would be amazed to know how many illegals in this country receive welfare, food stamps, and a free education. Frankly, it's disgusting. "

Is that why so many illegals are already receiving welfare et al (including free medical care)? I am not disputing that no one would apply (or even receive government "aid". That is happening regardless.
But how do you know- why do you think, it would not work when it has not even been tried? And according to whom? I, too, believe, that cannabis should be legalized (which is in itself, a ridiculous notion. Can you imagine criminalizing bluebonnets? Or Johnson grass? etc LOL Where are the environmentalists- since cannabis had been made extinct where it once grew wild?)
It is also ridiculous, imo, to dilute the "drug war" with all of the money & manpower it takes to (fail) to control it.
but I digress...

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
I hope you didn't take my post as somehow being opposed to the Arizona law, ZZombie. The opposite is true.

No, it was written more toward the "usual group of dissenters" that feel it is compassionate to give America away on a silver platter. Strangely.. that group seems to be absent from this thread.

I just want to try and help that group understand that helping illegals is not beneficial to the long term freedom of American or Mexican people..

The biggest problem in debating this issue, is people mistaking libertarian concepts with liberal concepts. Again not directed at you but at the public in general.




[edit on 26-4-2010 by zzombie]

I can't wait for the first time Juan Gutierrez, Rodrigo Lopez, Leo Rosales, Esmerling Vasquez, and Gerardo Parra (Arizona Diamondbacks)are thrown up against a squad car and told "gimme your papers, wetback!" Or the 96 hispanic members of the 15 major league teams who have spring training in Arizona say, "Trade me or move!" It won't help Ivan Rodriguez to be NL Batting average leader when he misses a doubleheader because he's in some fascist redneck county lockup in AZ. There is already talk of a MLB boycott by teams with hispanic players. Oh, and wait till the Montreal Canadiens ice hockey team is arrested for no visas or American passports when they come to play the Phoenix Coyotes. Ironic team name, no?.
Other unintended consequences: If you are an ambulance driver and get a call of a baby in distress, you pick up the baby, which happened to have been born in Mexico the prior week and is illegal, and the baby dies on the way to the hospital because a drunk driver crashes into your ambulance, YOU get the Arizona death penalty. So does the cop who called you - Conspiracy to transport an illegal alien (Felony); ergo felony murder.ARS 13-1105. And isn't the name Arpaio suspicious for being an illegal.

i live in arizona and i am pro-gun and pro-defense. i believe the government should allow us to use special made ammo for southern states that the military uses for training. allow us to buy AND USE rubber bullets for our weapons so when we see someone illegaly crossing into our country we can fire on them NON-LETHALY to deter them from coming that way again. and when they try to cross a mile or so away, your neighbor does the same.word will spread that they cant cross without getting shot at and the bleeding hearts cant bitch about us killing them just for crossing.

read my other post beneath this. it'll make you think about the state of the world were living in.

If u cross the north Korean border illegally u get 12 years hard labor...if u cross Iranian border illegally u get detained indefinitly....cross the Afghan border u get shot ....cross the Saudi border u will be jailed .....cross the Chinese border u will never be heard from again....cross the Venezuelan border u will b branded a spy and your fate sealed...cross the Cuban border u will b thrown n prison to rot.....however ..cross the U.S. border illegally...u get a job, a drivers license, a social security card, welfare benefits, food stamps, credit cards, subsidized rent or a loan to buy a new house, free education, free healthcare, the right to vote, and all without speaking a word of english.....makes ya think a little bit huh? If you agree with this forward to everyone you know who in one way or another pays for these losers to live in our country.

reply to post by whiteboynolan


I think that about clears it up.


'nough said

reply to post by whiteboynolan


Exactly. It disgusts me to see all the racist latinos protesting this bill, making up a bunch of BS about it being racist, and targeting "brown people", it's obvious that the color of their skin comes before their country (those who are citizens anyway). I can't speak for others, but I welcome immigrants who come here LEGALLY. It has nothing to do with race, we just don't have the resources to house the torrent of illegals, nor should we be forced to tolerate the crime and violence they bring.

UPDATE:

Sen. John McCain just endorsed this law on the US
Senate Floor.

Sen. John McCain defended his state's controversial immigration
law, arguing Monday on the Senate floor that Arizona needed to
approve the tough new measure to ensure the safety of its citizens.

"This situation is the worst I've ever seen," declared McCain.
"If you don't like the bill - the legislation that the legislature
passed and the governor signed in Arizona, then carry out the
federal responsibilities, which are to secure the border."

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

I didn't think it needed it's on thread since it
was related to this one

reply to post by whiteboynolan


Remember rock salt? That would make a person think twice, too.
This is a really great idea, WhiteBoy. (Your user name made me smile. I am forever referring to my self as a gringa)

Originally posted by boondock-saint
UPDATE:

Sen. John McCain just endorsed this law on the US
Senate Floor.

Sen. John McCain defended his state's controversial immigration
law, arguing Monday on the Senate floor that Arizona needed to
approve the tough new measure to ensure the safety of its citizens.

"This situation is the worst I've ever seen," declared McCain.
"If you don't like the bill - the legislation that the legislature
passed and the governor signed in Arizona, then carry out the
federal responsibilities, which are to secure the border."

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

I didn't think it needed it's on thread since it
was related to this one

Senator McLettuce is a sick man...he has had YEARS to deal with this. All the sudden he feels his ass is about to be removed this November, he is feeling the heat, literally. Screw you McCain...you failed me as Arizona Senator.

Obama is also an illegal alien... That's why he doesn't like this law

I bet Arnold likes it!

reply to post by crontab


[edit on 27-4-2010 by trueblue]

Something needs to be done and all this talk of the new legisilation being "racial" is bull! These people are coming over here by the thousands and they can't even be arrested if they are pulled over and have no ID. I am in NC and there are tons of illegals here as well. I am 100% with Arizona and their new law. As a matter fact, I think it isn't tough enough. These people don't care about the law of this land, that is obvious when they come over here ILLEGALLY and they should ALL be treated like felones, that is what they are. Not only are they coming over here, causing problems and breaking the law...they are also PURPOSELY having children for government money, fludding our emergancy rooms and costing the state and federal government millions of dollars each year. If we were strict on our laws and these illegals new they would be sent right to jail and then right back if they got caught, then they would think twice about coming over here. There are legal ways to do things, these people are taking advantage cause they know that they will get away with it. The situation is getting worse and worse and the federal government wants all their votes come Novemeber so they won't do anything about it now. It is time for the states to take serious action NOW.

And one more thing I forgot to add...they need to add to that bill that all LEGAL eliens MUST LEARN ENGLISH. What is all this spanish crap? I have ILLEGAL aliens come into my company and apply for jobs everyday and they can't even ask for an application in english. They can even take a drivers test in spanish...how the hell does that help them, especially when all the signs are in ENGLISH!!!!! helllllllllo people, what is wrong with this country and our government.

[edit on 11/10/08 by Victoria 1]

reply to post by boondock-saint


Don't foget he is playing golf as well.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
I think it's time for a 6th branch of the military: the United States Border Guard Service

- would absorb the existing US Coast Guard and US Border Patrol into a single agency with both military and law enforcement status. The maritime branch would basically continue to operate as the US Coast Guard does today. The land branch would operate in squad and platoon size mobile patrols via foot, horseback (bring back the horse cavalry in a mounted infantry role) vehicle (inc armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles), and helicopter and in company sized defensive positions with several regimental combat team sized units situated some miles behind the actual border for quick reaction forces or for dealing with rogue Mexican Army units that "accidentally" cross the border.

I think the best way to deal with this is a hidden electronic frontier
that blends in naturally with the plants in that region.

Post signs that it is there, and warn them, but hide the devices
that detect their movements and wireless report it.

Once movement is picked up by the grid an automated watch tower
activates and lights them up with a bullet proofed spotlight.

Current border patrol is activated and if the state feels it is needed
until order is restored citizens militia with body armor, and less than
lethal weapon system like long range pepper spray and tasers
for up close.

Lethal force restrained and only authorized by the on scene commanders.

I can't blame them for wanting to leave Mexico, but when they
start killing ppl here and generally acting like thugs the game
has run its course.

If the Mexican military makes an appearance and fires on US citizens
or border patrol which it has done in the past, A predator drone
should and can destroy it with a hellfire missile.

A robotic electronic, never sleeping, motion sensing multi-layer frontier
with human interaction behind it at a control center.

And that my friends will be the end of the 'Bravo Sierra' on the border.

Originally posted by DeltaBravoSierra
Obama simply does not want to. Granted this has been an issue for many many years and feel free to throw some blame on Bush and Clinton, but Obama actively cut many Boarder Patrol agents positions, and even went as far to call the new Arizona immigration bill, misguided. Stating among other things that the new immigration bill "threatens to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans."

Obama should receive no more blame than any other president
and to be honest they should get near zero blame.

The house and senate could fix this all by themselves.

They do not because lots of wealthy ppl LOVE the cheap labor.

My brother runs his own business and will ONLY hire hispanics,
simply due to their work ethic.

He has had some bad eggs sure, but mostly they work harder,
and back talk him less.

I do not like what my brother does, and I am no fan of Obama
or Bush, or most of the other political parasites.

The politicians are bought and paid for, and have sold us down
the river on a myriad of issues.

This is just one of the MANY things that they do not enforce because
it is making ppl rich by NOT enforcing the law.

As long as criminals run DC and Wallstreet do not expect things
to be run anything like law would call for.

Pirates and parasites killing the middle class.

Can write that on the Tombstone of this once great nation.

Prepare accordingly... ( but peacefully )

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by Ex_MislTech

I think the best way to deal with this is a hidden electronic frontier that blends in naturally with the plants in that region. Post signs that it is there, and warn them, but hide the devices that detect their movements and wireless report it.

In a form of deadly viruses or poisonous snakes

Good idea!

Originally posted by PennyQ

Wouldn't it be cheaper all round for each state to build a bloody great wall along the border?

You'd still have to deal with illegal flights, but it would stop most of the problem.
Any aircraft flying illegally over the wall should be just shot down, same as here in australia, we can't build a wall but I bet if we sunk a few illegal boats they would soon stop coming.

Radical I know but is there any other viable option?
A country must defend it's borders and it's about time the governments of the world got some balls and stopped listening to the 'goody twoshoes, whinging dogooders' who are the cause of many, many of our modern societal woes.

Build a wall, shoot anyone trying to get over it, they'll soon stop trying and then their own countries government will have to 'wake up' and do something about the reasons why these people are illegally running off to a so called better life. (which in most cases it isn't)

I expect to be flamed for this, but I for one am tired of the 'soft approach' and 'political correctness' .

I agree with your strong stance on this issue. It might seem harsh and lacking in compassion, but enough is enough. The problem will only get worse until we reach a point where we cannot recognise the country in which we currently live.

PS: This "Separation Wall" sounds like a good idea in theory. Although it does sound familiar...think Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Will be interesting to see the stance of those that vehemently opposed Israel's reasons for creating its separation wall.

[edit on 27/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Hal Turner used to go on and on about this, it's been under the surface for years. I guess 'nwo' the destruction of america is attempting to ramp up. He also called for a wall to be built, I'd say the lives, bullets and problems saved by one, would be well worth the trouble.

But what else are the PTB up to... show you one hand... California? Governator? Wonder if they will play a role.