Southern Arizona is a war zone

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posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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Sorry double post

[edit on 26-4-2010 by DaddyBare]




posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by zzombie
 


Believe it or not the whole Western World watches Arizona right now to see how effectively the citizens are fighting back against illegal immigration with no help whatsoever from their governments.
HANG IN THERE FOLKS!



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath
It seems that America has swallowed Kosovo.
You think it's different? It is not!
But don't ask Christiane Amanpour or Bil Clinton to explain it to you.
And, beware of using excessive force, NATO may shock and awe you...

The apparent "negligence" of the problem is a - policy! Don't be naive, things are not going well for Americans in those southern states.

Expect a wave of refugees. It may get worse than Katrina aftermath.

www.liveleak.com...


[edit on 26-4-2010 by DangerDeath]


Kosovo was Islamic.
Kosovo was convinced to have an uprising and was agreed that NATO allies would help them against Serbs who were Christians. But not the right Christians according to the Vatican. Serbs were convinced to do an incursion because radical Islamists started burning down churches. CIA was there long before Clinton. Now its a hotspot free for drugs and human trafficking but NATO will just tell you they helped "human rights" NATO is in on this.
Consider yourselves lucky because Mexicans are not Islamists. Yet...
If the Vatican looses their stronghold in Mexico then there is no telling what the future will be. Keep in mind there are strong Islamic elements within the US. I am afraid US has awaken a monster they will not be able to control for very long.

[edit on 26-4-2010 by spacebot]



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 08:48 AM
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Mexican Drug Cartels In The USA. Check out this map. You will be amazed. They are not just in border states. I'm as far away as Rhode Island and they are here too.

www.npr.org...



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by spacebot
 


Well, I think it is narco mafia in Kosovo that pulls the strings, rather than Muslims. It is all about corruption, from the times of former Yugoslavia, and longer that that, to be frank, and today the international corruption has been added to it.

We live in times when corruption is advancing at great velocity and the whole world is being flushed by it. I don't see anything nice coming from it.

Empty talk about human rights and ethics means really nothing as a way to stop this avalanche.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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I believe Az has taken steps to deal with this problem.
The new law about concealed carry. We soon will be able to carry concealed weapons without a permit. Gangsters will have to think twice before accosting a person in public where perhaps ten guns will come out of good samaritan's holters.

New illegal immigration law. Like it or not it does empower police to detain for cause these mexican gangsters. We stick em in prison tents and let them cook in the desert for a while till things calm down and ship em back to mexico to deal with.

Armed citizens will, at least, be empowered to protect themselves. I would suggest to those determined to carry a weapon to take a firearm safety / shooting course. There are many things to consider when you decide to pull that gun and first thing is dont pull it to scare someone. You pull it to use it. If the douchebag doesn't run away, empty the gun on him and reload.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


The California solution is to legalize MJ, and legalizing all the others would probably be just as smart.

The biggest problem is that drug prohibition increases crime as well as drug usage, and creates law enforcement jobs. It is a win win for all the wrong people.

The illegal immigration problem could be easily solved. Create a national ID system and start going after the employers of illegals.

Elites don't want to solve this problem. They like the power that the illegal work force gives them over workers. It is backdoor slavery.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Night Star
Mexican Drug Cartels In The USA. Check out this map. You will be amazed. They are not just in border states. I'm as far away as Rhode Island and they are here too.

www.npr.org...


Thank you, Night Star, good information there. Lots of people think the Cartels are only in Colombia, and Mexico, but the fat is they have been a presence since Clinton signed NAFTA into law. I hoe he suffers personally in some way over that fiasco. I can clearly see open warfare breaking out over this in some parts of the country....the Cartels will not give up and just go away easily, they will have to be rounded up one by one. Either we go by the Law of the Land, or we continue to ignore it. The Constitution provides that the Federal government will protect the citizens from "invasion." Well, this is an invasion.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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The answer to this problem is so god damn transparent its not even funny.
COME ON PEOPLE, How can it be this hard to wipe out a drug cartel...
I meant this is a nation that with in the last 8 years as destroyed two countries social structure, or what was left of afgans. They are drug cartels, not soldiers, not a militia, not the taliban. They are just a bunch of mexicans in houses with guns. Yet for years it seems its impossible to stop these guys. I have an answer that would not only probably destroy these mexican cartels but also many many gangs in general.
LEGALIZE MARIJUANA, and get STRICT ON THE REAL DRUGS.
Regardless of what anyone says, marijuana is perfectly possible to regulate and dont give me some BS that it would be too hard. If we can legalize alcohol, a substance that can kill you with a good 35 ounces of only 40% which almost anyone could go get. Then legalizing a god damn herb, that regardless of how much you could smoke you would not DIE.
And don't give me the same BS about children smoking dope, because i can guarantee you almost everyone who smoked a joint probably smoked a cigarette first.

Its easy folks you want to put these guys out of business, take away their clients, YOU THE CITIZENS!

it works the same as any other business does. Too bad most business' will always condem the use of marijuana, but thats just because hemp could put sooooo many business out on their ass, including the oil companies...

One day folks, one day. People will be informed one day, and they will realize the people that run the country are far more dangerous than any substance



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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Indeed the root of the problem lies within Mexico itself. Those with the power there are obviously corrupt and have no compassion for their own people. The U.S. border should have weapon and ammo depots where each person attempting to come into this country to escape their vile governement is handed a rifle and box of ammo and told to go home and fix their country's mess.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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It is hard to wipe out narco cartels and so alphabet agencies (smart guys) thought of establishing their own monopoly on narcotics, thus beating the mob. So, what we have now is gang wars - logical isn't it?

BTW, money from selling narcotics is used for nation building (and nation failing, for that matter).



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Borders are the exception .. as are any interstate thoroughfares. Such as rivers and so forth.. the US Coast Guard may arrest anyone on these water ways, but not lakes or non-interstate water ways.

For the border because its not policing a municipality but an actual border, only national (unconstitutional to restrict interstate borders) borders, the military would have full powers like the Coast Guard. This would be more effective, as they would be under Military Rules of Engagement .. if a ship is speeding into a port and is asked to stop, and it doesn't, the Coast guard may fire warning shots, or, destroy the vehicle and it's occupants with impunity. The Coast Guard has made some of the largest drug busts (and human trafficking) because they have more muscle. Let the Border Patrol, as a military unit, use military rules of engagement to destroy the cartels ability to move over the border.

Also, these are not Americans and are not protecting from any portion of our constitution protecting them from military governing.. imo the US should send the army to take over the northern states of Mexico until they can learn how to manage their own country.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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It's ridiculus that our government has our military on foreign soil fighting a fight that's not ours to fight when our country is being invaded. These people aren't coming here on vacation, they are criminals invading our country.

I don't see what the problem is, patrol the borders & when they attempt to cross give them a warning & if they don't turn back shoot them. The minute they cross our border undocumented they are criminals. They laugh at our laws because they are not being enforced.

We should always have a military presence at our borders. What good is having a military if they can't protect our borders ?! Bring our soldiers home and put them on the borders to protect us from this invasion.

If the federal government won't enforce our immigration laws and protect our borders then the states should be doing it on their own. Bring in the national guard and if necessary impliment a militia and give them the power to protect our borders.

Another step in the right direction would be to stop giving these criminals rewards like health care and food stamps for breaking our laws. Hell of course they want to come here if they can get health care and food at no cost to them.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by thebulldog
Legalize and steal the criminals market out from under them. Take away their means to make money. Force them into upheaval where they have no money to pay their debts or the people who work for them.


This doesn't work. If the above happens, they apply for welfare. You would be amazed to know how many illegals in this country receive welfare, food stamps, and a free education. Frankly, it's disgusting.


Violence will engender more hatred and create a situation that could be worse down the road.


I guarantee you that after the fist two illegal crossers are shot and left there, there will be less crossers. Period. Illegals come in U-haul trucks packed like sardines. Or, they are hopping over barb-wired fences. They are [generally] NOT packing weapons.

The drug cartels are primarily responsible for the killings, not illegal immigrants. They are only guilty of committing a crime [being here].


across the board legalization would have its own problems but at least the problem is internal then and can be dealt with as such. As long the criminals have a market with high demand in their grasp, they will do what they can to maintain it. Getting rid of one cartel leaves a power vaccuum with more violence to follow as the market war erupts and a new group takes its place.


Again, there is a difference between cartels and illegals. Firming up the border solves both problems. The cartels are going to kill people when they cross anyway, so there is no escalation in violence from trying to shoot them first. The cartels have proven to be extremely deadly, so as far as they are concerned, they took the first shot and should now be prepared for the consequences.

Illegals on the other hand are already breaking the law the minute they step foot onto US soil. It is a felony in this country.

Why should we then round them all up and spend taxpayer dollars to give them a trial? That's absurd! The best way to handle ANY problem is preventing it from happening in the first place.

We would not have to shoot very many [shoot them in the leg, arm...] before they ALL get the message.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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I firmly believe that this is all scripted scenario that is part of a greater psycho drama which is being run on the people of the US, as well as the other free- world countries.
The very definition of problem - reaction- solution is taking place in a thousand different scenarios put in place by tpb.
The fact that there is no border will eventually be recognised officially when we are overrun with people and gangs from down south...
by that time of course well be in the position of having far too many so called illegal aliens to deport.....it just wont be possible, and may even now be an undoable task...
We are taking of hundreds of thousands of people here i believe...many families with more than a generation here already....how is it going to be physically possible to sort out by then?
The solution will be to join up the two countries into one.....
Already there are plans working to that end within the goverments of Can USand Mex.
The feds will not stop illegal immigration ever.....they are hoping it will spread...
And the gangs well, they will provide an opportunity for more police powers later than sooner...when the problem has become more acute.
The legalisation of drugs is a long ways off because there is too much black money to be made for the intelligence services, and the police get more people every day to combat this created situation....
it is a never ending treadmill that is simply going to suck up more and more of the GDP....
Sane solutions are not welcome because the agenda does not want them...
Its simly easier to control the people when they are in a turmoil and threatened at more than one direction...
They herd easier that way....
Arizonans can arm themselves till the cows come home but until the agenda changes they be fighting with both hands tied....
God Bless Em.........



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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What is sad about this entire story and situation is that our Armed Forces were to be used for this exact reason in defending our borders and NOT for fighting wars for OIL profits on foreign lands.

Even George Washington warned us about this misdirection of the military.

If we simply had a few squadrons of AH-64 Apache Helos or even some old AH-1 Huey Cobras pulled out of retirement patrolling the border with night vision and armed with a minigun.

After chopping up a couple of dozen Illegal Border Crossers into Hamburger meat It would stop/slow down the influx of illegals into our country REAL QUICK !

The sad truth is that we'll never see this happen due to the fact that there is no profit in it for the Powers That Be ....

Plain and Simple.

'Nuff Said.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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I know this is anecdotal evidence, buy I live in New Mexico within a hundred miles of the border, and I've been told by more than one person that the violence is definitely spilling over onto our side.

The thing is, I have lived in the Southwest all my life and this is the first time I've ever heard tales like this.

First of all, if you look at the map of New Mexico it has a prominent bootheel that dips into Mexico and borders Arizona. This is in the same area where Arizona rancher Robert Krentz and his dog were mercilessly gunned down for offering some thug a drink of water.

This bootheel is where most, if not all, of the trouble is supposedly happening. Rumor is that our governor "suddenly" moved the National Guard to the bootheel not just because of Robert Krentz's death, but also because of the following tales. Supposedly all of these happened within the last few months. Again, I have no way of knowing how accurate they are, but I have NEVER heard stories like this until recently:

1. Some hunters arrived in the bootheel area for a muzzle loader hunt. They came upon what appeared to be an impromptu Border Patrol checkpoint in the area closest to the border with Mexico. The Border Patrol agents would not let them into the area where they had drawn their hunt. Supposedly, one of the agents told the hunters, "If they see you in camo carrying a rifle they'll shoot you before you know they're around." We are talking about armed Mexican thugs on THIS side of the border.

2. Another group of hunters actually made it into the area, and they were soon confronted by a vehicle full of armed Border Patrol agents. The agents ordered them to get to their vehicle, and told them they would follow them out (over the protests of the hunters, one assumes). As the hunters were getting in their vehicle, they supposedly could hear the sounds and see the muzzle flashes of a substantial firefight going on in the distance.

3. An old timer doing something at his well, when he was confronted by three illegals. One of the illegals had "devil horns" tattooed on his head. They wanted water. The old timer told them truthfully that he was working on his well, but they could find water at a ranch up the road. The old timer felt uneasy, and called the Border Patrol. After capturing the three men, the Border Patrolmen went back to the old timer and told him, "Good thing you called us. One was wanted for several murders, and all of them were wanted for the drug trade for one reason or another."

4. There are several stories that there have been many killings of ranchers along the border. One rancher reported marijuana plants being grown on his property by unknown persons. He was later found dead or disappeared (I forget which). This story has been repeated with many variations. One variation is that if the Mexican drug thugs need your ranch house as part of their smuggling route, then you had better cooperate or they'll kill you and take it anyway.

It's getting very scary down here, folks.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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Legalizing drugs would put the cartels out of business, literally.

As long as drugs are immensely profitable (IE, illegal), then it doesn't matter how many cartels you stomp out, how many kingpins you kill, or how many seizures you make. There's always a new leader waiting to take over, a new kilo of drugs waiting to be shipped, and a new cartel being formed right below the horizon.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by ohoooo


The people who wrote this law have illegal immigrants maintaining thier yard and kids well they go hate on them for their crumbling economy.


You have any proof of this?




Backwards,
racist, stupid, people. It is pathetic who controls the people. Only ignorant, racist people believe in this law.


Some idiot always has to bring race into it.

So all the legal American construction workers that can't find work because all the big construction companies laid them off to hire illegals at cheaper rates of pay are racist because they want the illegals OUT? NO! It's because they are tired of being out of work.
There was a raid on a construction site of Thomas Construction a few miles from here. Something like 11 illegals were arrested by the sheriff's department. When they tried to turn them over to INS guess what INS told the sheriff? To let them go!!!




The Mexicans now have a bad rap accross the Nation cause the media will only show illegal immigrants over & over to manipulate the stupid populce.



Uhhh..That's because we don't care about the LEGAL ones!



I think this is really bringing racial tension between Americans. I is sad when someone thinks they have right to ask someone else if they are legal.


Again, it has nothing to do with race and doesn't create any racial tension.In fact the only ones that believe it has anything to do with race are all of the people like you that bring it up. As long as illegal immigration into this country has been a problem, with little to nothing being done to stop it is far far sadder, and yes we should have the right to question someone about their legal status in this country.



I wonder who employs all these illegal immigrants? What people pays these illegal immigrants? Americans do. Why isn't their people closing down their businesses? This who thing is twisted. The law is racist and should have the mayor fired with the people who work for her. Screw that mayor she is racist. That is not a weak arguement either cause I can keep going. Reply to that!


It is a weak argument because you have failed to provide any type of evidence that it's a racially motivated law other than your own opinion.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by zzombie
 


I hope you didn't take my post as somehow being opposed to the Arizona law, ZZombie. The opposite is true.
Cygnis' post brought that thought to my mind (not a new one), so I posted it as one aspect of the situation. I DO sympathize with the migrants' situation. However, these are HIGHLY skilled and competent people (much more so than India)- very detail oriented. There is no reason they could not be successful and prosperous in their own country- EXCEPT for their corrupt society & government. This same situation is rapidly evolving in the US (which was really my point). They will very soon be no better off.
I hope very much that Texas, New Mexico & California will follow Arizona, shortly.

Part of me thinks that the people who push looking the other way are simply "northerners" who do not fathom the instability that exists in the border states- that they are naive. On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore (speaking of looking the other way) the agenda(s) behind those who are pushing for open borders & "amnesty".
Congress can pass this into law all they want to. If they think we have somehow "adapted" into accepting the crime and the violations of our personal space (our homes, our vehicles, even where we can safely go and when) over the past 30 sum odd years, they are mistaken. It has gotten so much worse.
Too many of the people coming across the border are violent and without respect for our laws or our way of life and they have shown by their actions that they will not be the ones to adapt. The very fact that they are willing to cross our borders illegally doesn't bode well for who they will be once they get here.





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