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Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

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posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
Have to leave now, but before I do, I'm curious as to why none of the Masons here have remarked upon records of the time which claim Temlars denied Christ in a variety of way, many of them disgustingly


What's to remark upon? It has been admitted by the persecutors that the charges against the Templars were false, which is something the historians had already contended. Anti-Masonry is based upon lies and deceit, and, as is shown by the history of the persecution of the old Templars, this has always been the case.


As Masons freely admit here that they ARE affiliated with the Templars, is it correct to assume that Freemasons are also anti-Christian, even rabidly so ?


The Knights Templar were a Christian monastic order. So the answer is obviously no.




posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by VinnyboyXI
 
Well Vinnie, thanx for sharing your experience. Don't let the disparaging remarks of 'certain' nasty people get you down. Nothing you say would ever elicit any better response unless you were attacking in their own perverse fashion. Then you would be applauded.
I was run out of 'evangelical' churches on account of my 'righteousness' that ran counter to their own perverted interpretations of the Bible, so I rather missed the close fellowship and interaction I grew up with as a PK. I was considering the Masons, but from what you and others are saying, I think I'll pass. Better to serve in heaven than to rule in hell...




posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
Have to leave now, but before I do, I'm curious as to why none of the Masons here have remarked upon records of the time which claim Temlars denied Christ in a variety of way, many of them disgustingly
Well, that's what they were accused of back in the day... but it turned out to be coerced confessions. The vatican recently published the papers that cleared Jacques DeMolay and all the other templars of the crimes that they'd been accused of. King Philip just wanted their money, and Pope Clement thought he'd lost control over them. But there was never any truth to the accusations, and the Catholic church has admitted as much.


As Masons freely admit here that they ARE affiliated with the Templars, is it correct to assume that Freemasons are also anti-Christian, even rabidly so ?
Nope. To be a Masonic Knight Templar one must swear to defend the Christian faith. Only Christians or those who swear to defend it can even BECOME Knights Templar in the Masonic sense. So that would be a weird paradox...



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


You ask 'where's Vinny ? '

After the gang-bashing to which he was relentlessly subjected ?


I wasn't aware questioning someone's assertion is synonymous with "gang-bashing".
I'll bear that in mind for future.


Originally posted by Dock9
After a concerted assault was made to destroy his credibility ?


I wasn't aware questioning someone's assertion is synonymous with "concerted assault was made to destroy his credibility".
I'll bear that in mind for future.


Originally posted by Dock9
After he stated he had hired internet access for 20 minutes ?


I wasn't aware that 20 euros=20 minutes. Expensive hotel.
I'll bear that in mind for future.


Originally posted by Dock9
That's rubbing the salt in, don't you think ?


That's laying it on a bit thick, don't you think?
I'll bear that in mind for future.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 



Gotta go, it's six in he morning here

But I'll say this and hope you understand


Vinny didn't get much of a chance before the Freemason gang jumped him and tried not only to discredit and threaten him, but to drive his thread into the wall


So it's clear the freemasons here were terrified of what little Vinny had the opportunity to say

So that says ALL about the Freemasons, and it sways people to the belief the Freemasons were desperate to silence him

No point trying to be 'reasonable' now. Freemasons did the damage to themselves and to THEIR (to lazy to mess around with code just now) credibility. They did it all on their own. And we saw it and we remember it

Freemasons can take their pick here: they can choose to be regarded as bullying thugs, or they can elect to be regarded as terrified of Vinny's thread. Personally, I see it as both

Knee jerk reaction. Over the top. Over reaction. Freemasons .. guilty as charged

And IF what Vinny had to say was as preposterous as Freemasons are attempting to claim NOW ... now they've run Vinny out of the thread ... then they would not have over reacted and hit below the belt as they did

Freemasons exposed themselves. It was disgusting to witness

Normally, Freemasons are told to behave themselves and set a 'nice' example, because membership is falling, worldwide, and Freemasons have been instructed to play nice and win new converts

Yet the moment Vinny posted, Freemason dropped the 'nice' and laid into him. There was a reason. A reason. Taht's the conclusion we've drawn. And no amount of pretty bandages now will take away the taste of disgust most feel about what was done to Vinny.

Therefore, Vinny 1, Freemasons 0 iis how it's regarded

I'm technically asleep. Apologies. Maybe tomorrow.

In the meantime, who/what is the god of Freemasons ?

that should be full disclosure, should't it, in light of all the rumours ?



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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anyone who knows the history of the Knights Templar already knows this . just research order of the golden dawn, or Rosicrucianism



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Vinny didn't get much of a chance before the Freemason gang jumped him and tried not only to discredit and threaten him, but to drive his thread into the wall


I wasn't aware questioning someone's assertion is synonymous with 'jumping him
I'll bear that in mind for future.


Originally posted by Dock9
In the meantime, who/what is the god of Freemasons ?


If you're a Trinitarian Christian like myself, it'd be God (Holy Trinity). I won't presume to speak for Sikh, Jewish, Mormon or any brethren of any other religion

HTH
Fitz



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
Vinny didn't get much of a chance before the Freemason gang jumped him and tried not only to discredit and threaten him, but to drive his thread into the wall


Vinny had more then ample time to make his point, he had the Original Post for Pete's sake, but he failed to do anything but offer veiled anecdotes. Also, Masons were not the only ones questioning his veracity, I am sure you saw that.


So it's clear the freemasons here were terrified of what little Vinny had the opportunity to say

So that says ALL about the Freemasons, and it sways people to the belief the Freemasons were desperate to silence him


He can concoct and report all the stories he wants, I only care that he was passing himself off as a Mason. I have said this over and over yet it seems to me that you avoid that I stated this. The Templar meeting story is not that important to me.


In the meantime, who/what is the god of Freemasons ?


Pretty simple, I call God, God.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9



Vinny didn't get much of a chance before the Freemason gang jumped him and tried not only to discredit and threaten him, but to drive his thread into the wall


Vinny said last week that he was thinking about becoming a Mason. Then, today, he says that a few days he describes being at some sort high level cabal. It doesn't take a mathematician to realize that his story just doesn't add up.


So it's clear the freemasons here were terrified of what little Vinny had the opportunity to say


I didn't see anybody in terror. However, I did see a large number of folks point out the various inconsistencies in his story.


So that says ALL about the Freemasons, and it sways people to the belief the Freemasons were desperate to silence him


I think that our rational readers will probably get a laugh from your comments. At no point did anybody attempt to "silence" the OP, Mason or not.


No point trying to be 'reasonable' now.


Not with you anyway. You're still harping on the long discredited charges against the old Templars, which is a documented hoax.



I'm technically asleep.


So we've learned.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by SandraV818
anyone who knows the history of the Knights Templar already knows this . just research order of the golden dawn, or Rosicrucianism


The Knights Templar were a military order, and are now a fraternal order. The Golden Dawn / Rosicrucians were and are an order of mystics, not military. So there is an important distinction between the Templars and the Rosicrucians.

Some have contended that the Templars were mystics as well as soldiers (Pike and Crowley come to mind). This hypothesis is an interesting one, and it is true that the Templars, while in the Holy Land, were exposed to many ideas that would have been deemed heretical in their Catholic France (Sufis, Buddhism, Kabalah, Neo-Platonism, etc.).

Whether or not any of these ideas influenced the Templar Order as a whole, however, is just a matter of speculation (although those ideas certainly influenced the Rosicrucians).



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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how much you wanna bet Vinny is post banned, so it doesn't look like he's banned, but he can't post. Get em' Vinny!



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Dock9
Vinny didn't get much of a chance before the Freemason gang jumped him and tried not only to discredit and threaten him, but to drive his thread into the wall
I'd just like to point out that that's a bit revisionist...

I've counted the posters in the first 15 pages of this thread (300 posts)...

77 ATS members who are not Masons posted in this thread in the first 15 pages, vs 10 ATS members who are Masons.

And yet the Masons get accused (again) of "ganging up?" I didn't realize that a minority outnumbered 7-fold had that much strength.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 




The Knights Templar were a military order, and are now a fraternal order.


At their height in the early middle ages, only one in seven Templar Knights was a man at arms. Most were clerks, and scribes, administering to the first international banking network, managing the estates of wealthy knights who did not belong to the Order, for a profit while they were away fighting in the crusades, and writing bibles.

To cast the Knights Templar as simply a military order is an understatement.

They were embodied with extraordinary powers to travel through any land, and encamp in any land, immune from the laws of those kingdoms and granted the right to dispatch their own life and death justice within any land.

They made massive sums of money through their banking enterprises, and management enterprises, and has a power structure spread out throughout Europe of well over a quarter of a million non-combatants seeing to their enterprises.

They were the first international corporation, and laid the ground work for the Shadow Government, and the Banking Empire it employs to control the seemingly independent nations of the world, on behalf of Rome.

They were a fearsome force to be reckoned with and remain so through today as the founded a more modern day spider web of hidden power structures and sources under their control.

Think of the Masons along the lines of the Templar clerks and you would be thinking!



[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Check this out. Vinny said this in the OP.

"The first thing I learned shortly after walking through the doors is that the true Freemasons are, in fact the Knights Templar! This meeting was a meeting of the Templar Knights under the guise of the Freemasons.

I couldn't believe what I had just heard. If I had even mentioned that anywhere in America I would be called crazy. I had been researching the Masons for years, I had learned about many good and bad things. After hearing from fellows brothers of other lodges I was completely convinced that these stories were completely bogus.""

He said straight up, that people would call him crazy for saying the Freemasons are directly linked to Templars.

He says he would be called crazy for mentioning that.

He even said his masonic brothers totally convinced him that crap was not true. EXACTLY as I remember them telling me, actually. lol.

But now, 20 pages later, we know that pretty much the main gist of the OP is actually true.

Thanks to the posters who helped reveal this information. And thanks to the posters for digging up more stuff.

This one has only just began though. There is a needle in this haystack, and it will be great to find it.

The Templar issue is just arbitrary so lets take this thread towards a better future.

Like discussing the multiple groups involved in this. Such as the Defenders of the Holy Grail. And the others.

I still havent found their leaders email yet, if anyone finds it please share I have a lot of questions to ask him.

I will post my email response in this thread as well, if I can get ahold of this guy.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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The masons are a trip.
My cousin and i were on a custom flooring job back in the day, and the foreman tried to short us some money.
My cousin asked the guy if he had heard of 'Cecil Johnson' (our deceased great uncle who wasn't even a mason). The foreman said no, at which point my cousin (making this sh*t up as he went), said, "Cecil's a mason. Have you ever heard of the mason jar? You don't wanna have your company's name end up in that jar buddy. Don't make me call Cecil."
I was almost pissing myself trying not to bust out laughing. The foreman got a scared look on his face and called the owner of the company. We overheard him mentioning 'Cecil' and 'mason jar'.
After the phone call the foreman walked up and wrote us a check for the amount he owed us, then asked us if we wanted to do the floors for the rest of the custom homes they had being built.
Lol, it was classic.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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ok so i have a question to the author of this, did they mention anything about 2012, planet x, human origin, aliens? can you tell us something helpful, should we be preparing for something, because if i witnessed this and knew that for the benefit of the human race i must tell everyone, that is what i would do.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by triplehelix888
ok so i have a question to the author of this, did they mention anything about 2012, planet x, human origin, aliens? can you tell us something helpful, should we be preparing for something, because if i witnessed this and knew that for the benefit of the human race i must tell everyone, that is what i would do.


Probably not most of that.

Human origins possibly.

They were discussing making a ONE world Religion. Basically merging all religions into one big one.

This is actually a big deal.

Even for the non-religious people like me.

Why do I loathe the ideal of One Religion? Because I don't agree with them. That is why.

Anyways, you wanted a conspiracy pearl, there it is.
Around page 13-17 there were some really great links supplied that made this fact clear as day.

You should read the flyers they made up for this event.

It was about making a One World Religion as their central focus of discussion.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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It's taken several hours to read this, i can honestly say it's the best i've read in over a year, thank you all for making this both highly entertaining and educational!!

A few things to add if i may. I am not a mason, nor a member of any society, secret or otherwise, nor church (do internet forums count in these things?). There are problems where more than 1 person gather.

The freemasons existed in Britain at the time the templars fled persecution. Templars joined freemason history, and added to their ideology in many ways, as with the renaissance period in Europe, and the civil war years in America. I will concur with Muzzleflash (you rock!!) and others that any mention of the knights templar past the 1700's is dismissed as fiction. Ditto for the illuminati. The freemasons really did spit in the pope's eye, possibly their only worthy attribute.

Free masonry has become as generic as christianity, encompassing anything from Russian Orthodoxy to Billy Graham, and those aren't even the wierdest. But secrecy amongst any group by definition will result in: back scratching, ego boosting, ritual, heirarchy, self righteousness, self-aggradizement, and much else. Of course, like a couple having having a violent episode in public, gods help the brave knight who intervenes, they will gang up on him instantly. What they can and will never admit to, because due to the modular structure they themselves don't even know, is that they've been corrupted, thoroughly infiltrated and subverted, as with every single other sector of society on this pretty planet.

The poster (henceforth vinny) made a few direct claims:
1. mason meeting italy - both claims true
2. interpreter - if he can speak the lingo, true
3. famous people - half true, he named none, yet it's imperitive to the central thesis that they be important
4. jeweller by trade - independantly confirmed there was a jewellery shindig too
5. knights-templar = freemasons - confirmed by freemasons here as valid
6. he says 2 days ago, then 3 days ago (in the same post) - confirms unstable state of mind (if in Italy, posting time local = 01h23)
7. important information given by Europe to America - you tell me?



something bigger that we can even imagine behind the scenes of the Freemason


Not all freemasons would know.

May i remind everyone about the 19th April threads? Timing. These gnostic websites are all the front. The advertised event is the 17th April, for the World Congress of Initiate Socities. And several days later, we still have large groups of important americans being iniated into certain truths? By the Europeans, who are


very bad, very powerful people.

right.

Even if you look into this pinky guy, you are still finding fish hats, pyramids, Rosslyn chapels, st Clairs, "one world spiritualities" and strange italian towns with ancient histories and secrets worth killing for. They're esoteric tour operators and presenters of the new age, but they have fingers in lots of different religious pies, including egyptology, buddhism, and all the rest, even christian, but only by inference through masonry i note.

To conclude, Vinny is a poor keeper of secrets. He is also apparently a man with a healthy conscience. Vinny, read this thread, and see what you're getting into bed with. Last chance you'll ever have to walk away.

You masons have been poor ambassadors of your craft. All of the accusations against you have stood, and none of the obfuscation, character assasination, denial, boasting or lying (or anything i may have missed) has stuck, save your tenacity. The avowed men only protest too much. They know something is coming, the americans will return to share the great news.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by VinnyboyXI
 


Heck, I'll give you a flag and star just because these 20+ pages gave me a headache and it must have given you a migraine.

It seems every time I read a Mason thread there is a group tag teaming somebody. Always pissed about something. Incredibly touchy. You all come out of the woodwork so fast too. It's like you have big red Masonic Alert sign saying "Attack, Mason discussion imminent!"

I used to think people were to touchy about Masons, but as time goes on these tag team matches get more obvious.

VinnyboyXI,

You should have joined the Elks. They do lots of charity work, they are not aloof and secretive and they support the Veterans. Or the Moose if you just want to escape your Wife and have some beer. Way less excess baggage to carry around and way friendlier people. Most of all they don't have any secrets. People who have secrets, always have something to hide.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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well the one world religion doesnt sound good, unless it was truely something good which i doubt, i think id rather study Buddhism anyways



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