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Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

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posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by YourPopRock
 





The whole poorly conceived fib the OP told demonstrating his involvement in Masonry was a whole lotta stupid wrapped in a crispy shell of crazy! I mean that in the best way possible!


This is irrelevant hearsay, based on self serving, agenda driven opinion that lacks any evidentiary standard that can be qualified as a measurable means to draw such a conclusion.

That you will stress your opinion frequently and aggressively does not make it not opinion, just as your poorly qualified and researched assertions earlier in the thread were easily debunked and dismissed by critical and objective minds with no agenda.

No one has said Vincent’s story is true, just that based on other circumstantial evidence, that can be verified objectively, by those without an agenda of brotherhood, denotes there is some substance worth further investigation.

An investigation that some, based on agenda and shared affiliation would like to keep from happening, by using incendiary emotional tactics, of claiming slander, and damage, and injury, when they are wholly incapable of being able to meet the evidentiary standards of.

This actually gives Vincent’s story more credibility and not less credibility, and while those disingenuous agenda driven and affiliation marred posters would contend this is anti something, specifically them, it is in reality, pro truth, and has nothing to do with such petty fears as you are stating.

If Vincent’s story lacks credibility based on the things you purport it does, if you held up those same yardsticks to measure yours, it would have even less!




posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


Their "god" is Lucifer? Come on... Do even the littlest amount of research and you can relate the morning star in their rituals to Venus, the goddess, or planet if you will! This thread is coming unravelled... Total shame ignorance is no excuse for not learning to look for information! Now seems like peeps think secret and Satan are the same thing! Lol please the info is everywhere out there. Go sit in a book store for
while and read



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 





I feel I have to step in here. You sir, have been very misinformed. Masons receive an apron on their 1st degree. Nothing more is conveyed to the brother in the blue lodge until he becomes master. then he gets to use hos own hat. (if it's silly, it's his own damn fault)


I already have a World's greatest Dad apron! The funny hat? That I might have use for!

I want to commend you for holding off last night, and suggesting your brothers verify whether Vincent joined or not. That was very reasoned of you!

Very well considered.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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Protoplasmic, i want to have ur babies.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


You gonna go on bickering? I thought Iauy have made some slid points in the last few pages but you twoo been filling the pages so fast my thoughts are getting burrows in there! I was looking foward to muzzleflash's response it maybe you could go bak and read em and give it a once over then rip it apart if ya want but feedback would be cool thx!



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
Protoplasmic, i want to have ur babies.


Their mother has custody, and she's mean! If you get a hold of them, I would love to see them!

Thanks!



[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

One, there's a Swedish Bikini Team? Two, you're a lucky bastard? Three, you're gay for not having a camera.

Well, I guess I'll start posting pics of my Masonic activity to prove myself. I'll see if I can get a picture with the Most Eminent Grand Master of the Grand Encampment, Knights Templar USA.


Originally posted by wordtothewise
And WHAT is shocking if how things are conducted in Italy are DIFFERENT than they are in America?

Well, as the Italian Knights Templar are under the jurisdiction of the Grand Encampment, Knights Templar USA and as such, no EAs are allowed to enter the Commandery during a closed meeting.


Originally posted by wordtothewise
First off, you obviously do not take SERIOUSLY your vows if you are at all a Freemason to be on here "reviling" fellow Freemasons as you claim to be.

Again, there are holes in his story. I am awaiting his response before I go further with my opinion of the OP.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

The only one who really has a table is the Recorder (Secretary)

reply to post by Hemisphere
 

Once a man becomes a Master Mason he can apply for the York Rite. You would first go through the Capitular degrees, then the Cryptic degrees, and then finally to the Chivalric Orders - the last order is the Order of the Temple aka Knights Templar.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

So what's your bank account number and routing number?


Originally posted by GW8UK
If you dont tell us what goes on in your 'lodges' thats fine. But we all think your gay



reply to post by Stormwind™
 

No one is asked to join.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Technically we do have right as we are not a criminal organization, but a group of free, law abiding men. Corporations have private meetings and have secrets (secret formula for their product). At least in the US, we have the 1st Amendment and thus have our privacy.

You have no proof of criminal activity other than some dilusional notion that was conjured up in your mind or from some site you got dooped into reading. I am sorry to be harsh, but thats the truth of the matter.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Clandestine or irregular Lodges and other bodies are a constant thorn in the side of true Freemasonry. They often employ sinister activities that have stained all of Freemasonry.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Of course we are looking into his membership, there are holes in his story. Otherwise what he is saying is just bull.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Of course we are looking into his membership, there are holes in his story. Otherwise what he is saying is just bull.



If you can invade his privacy and find out what secret society he is in by "investigating him" through your "channels", than why is it wrong for me to claim you deserve no privacy?

I think we should get to verify everything about You. Cuz I think it's all bunk. Your just a wanna be mason.

See this is pointless and can go on forever.

You do realize how unethical it is to "look up" people you met online without their knowing?

It's stalking. And I know this is gonna turn into Harassment for the OP.

You guys need to leave him alone. It's extremely cruel and SCARY AS HELL that you guys do this!!

I repeat - IT IS SCARY AS HELL YOU GUYS DO THIS!!!


You are NOT allowed to look him up. No one is. This has entered the realm of potential craziness.

I hope yall are just full of it and making this all up. This is just crazy. I can't believe it...



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Freemasonry doesn't meet the requirements to be a religion. Its religious in nature meaning that you have to hold a belief before joining. Freemasonry doesn't change your belief or tells you how to practice it, just that you have to have one.

Just in my Lodge we have Jewish members, we have a possible candidate that is Muslim, we have Deists, and members of all the Christian denominations. I know a few years back the Grand Chaplain of Arizona was a practicing Buddhist.

reply to post by YourPopRock
 

Plus, if he had attended a Templar meeting, it wasn't a normal meeting. The only time Templars meet on Sunday is for Easter Observance or Christmas Observance.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

OES, Daughters of the Nile, SOOB, and IOJD

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Prove your allegations? How did we steal the money?

reply to post by 911stinks
 

Actually there is no God of Freemasonry, the only God I worship is the one I have always worshipped; the Almighty God of the Christian religion.

reply to post by 911stinks
 

Where is the proof of this centralized power? I find it funny that Freemasons are accused of centralizing power when in the Blue Lodge, the highest authority is the Grand Lodge (in the US its the State, and in Europe its the country). And who were enslaved? And if that is true, why are you not enslaved?

Your close to God? So am I.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Who was this kid charged with manslaughther? Who is his father? When did this murder take place?

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Nixon wasn't a Mason


Originally posted by muzzleflash
It was LBJ who claimed Tonkin anywho.

He was only initiated as EA, he never advanced beyond that.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Master Masons who have gone through the Royal Arch.

reply to post by Saurus
 

Just from the site, these guys are not affiliated with the Masonic fraternity. I have never heard of this group before.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by YourPopRock
 





Secondly, WHAT MAKES THIS MAN SPECIAL ENOUGH to fly from the United States to Northern Italy during a time when a gigantic volcano was spewing hot ash into the sky and grounding ALL air traffic in Europe arriving from the United States.


I debunked that foolish and dubious claim back on page 11, the OP never said when he arrived in Italy, but did say he was there to take part in a Jewlery Convention that did in fact start before the Volcano!

Can you say desperate, poorly researched, clutching at straws?

I bet you can!


Can you spell "moving the goalposts'? You didn't debunk anything; you just pulled an unlikely excuse from your hindquarters. For him to be suffering "jetlag" anywhere from a week to a month after arriving in Europe just makes for a third most unusual aspect to his story.

If he were to claim it that is to say.

What was that you said about clutching at straws?



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 



No offence, but you clearly don't grasp how ridiculous Masons succeed in making themselves appear, do you ?

This is what becomes of those who devote all their energies to becoming Big Fish in Tiny Puddles: they lose perspective. Their ego persuades them that their tiny world is of immense importance and power in the minds of all

Surely by now, you've begun to appreciate the humour and disdain with which Freemasons are regarded by the general public ?

The very fact that you regard yourself as possessing authority sufficient to be 'checking out the OP' should tip you off that you left reality behind a long time ago ?

You've certainly convinced me that Freemasonry is the refuge of inadequate men who attempt to reduce the world, proportionate to their own inadequacy & lack of stature ( physically and otherwise)

Clustering like old women behind -- let's face it --- ridiculous, hysterically dramatic, adolescent and perverted rituals evokes ridicule and distate in right-minded members of the community

Yet you appear deluded to the extent you actually believe your membership in a reviled little-boy's club carries weight in society, generally

Do Freemasons submit to annual psychiatric evaluation ? I honestly believe it would be a wise step

I also feel that if Freemasonry hopes to lift itself in the esteem of the public (as it has stated it does) then it needs to rid itself of the inadequate, self-aggrandising individuals who're drawn to Freemasonry in the belief it will provide them power, control, recognition, personal-gain & stature far beyond what they could hope to achieve on their own. In short, ambitious inadequates seek to join the Freemasons. So do those of criminal disposition. As do those suffering delusions of grandeur. It's for this reason (exemplified in this thread alone) that Freemasonry, in the mind of the general public, ranks lower than the Mafias, lower than corrupt law-enforcement, lower than common con-men

It's laughable (and surely you still have sufficient grasp on reality to discern the laugher which permeates the posts of those who've troubled to patronise this thread ?) that Freemasons themselves are of such low intelligence generally that they regard Freemasonry as a personal step-up. They believe that Freemasonry elevates them. Which speaks volumes about their lack of standing prior to joining the Freemasons

Throughout 25 disturbing pages, people have attempted to awaken the claimed Freemasons in this thread to the absurdity of the situation, a situation whereby members of a reviled group/cult deem themselves to be in position of power & authority re: an individual's comments in an open-forum

Reality-check. Really ... reality check time



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
Freemasonry doesn't meet the requirements to be a religion. Its religious in nature meaning that you have to hold a belief before joining. Freemasonry doesn't change your belief or tells you how to practice it, just that you have to have one.


Thanks for the kind reply.

But isn't the fact you require someone to "hold a belief" denote that you are indeed a "all inclusive religion" except for those who do not believe in those fantastical things?

Since those who do not hold such beliefs are not accepted into the society, It must be a religion by definition no?

It seems to meet the requirements exceptionally well.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Oh please the Jewlery Convention started well before the dust cloud.

So Sherlock regardless how long it takes YOU to recover from jetlag, do you know people who get jetlag, from not travelling?

Do you guys actually think about your arguments?

How does a guy, you want to pretend never went to Italy, and is still at home in Chicago get Jetlag?

Duh!



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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A quick note on jetlag. If the person flying attempts to sleep just a little bit and stays properly hydrated during the flight, jetlag is minimal. Hydration affects jetlag a lot more than people think. I've flown from SeaTac to Tokyo, but the longest flight was from Shannon, Ireland, to McChord AFB. I drank lots of water and took a few naps, felt great getting off the plane. No lag.

reply to post by emsed1
 

Well said.

reply to post by Saurus
 

That could very well be.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

Looks like that man is a guard (called the Tyler in the Blue Lodge), which guards the privacy of the meeting.

reply to post by Masonic Light
 

I didn't know you were in the HRAKTP?! I received my OHP today


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Another favorite trick is to put things out as conflicting, no Masons are not part of the Knights Templar, yes I am a Templar High Priest and also a Mason, this isn’t new.

The HRAKTP is a honorary, invitational body within the York Rite; this group specifically has a membership cap on it. The York Rite does in fact have the Knights Templar Order in it, but doesn't claim to be descended from the Crusading Templars. All Masonic Templars are Master Masons, but not all Master Masons are Masonic Templars.

reply to post by Dock9
 

This is absurd and a baseless, flamebait post.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
They belong to the YORK RITE side of Masonry.. which as far as I know, does not exist in Italy.

There is a Grand Commandery of Italy that falls under the jurisdiction of the Grand Encampment, Knights Templar USA.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

You have the wrong perception about how we verify someone's membership. It doesn't invade on his privacy.

You think I'm bunk? Okay. I can tell you many things about me:

Blue Lodge:
Raised a Master Mason on June 23, 2006
Presided as Worshipful Master in 2009

York Rite:
Advanced as a Mark Master, Received as a Past Master, Acknowledged a Most Excellent Master, Exalted a Royal Arch Mason, Introduced a Royal Master, and Chosen as a Select Master on Nov 1, 2008

Constituted a Knight of the Red Cross, Admitted as a Knight of Malta, and Knighted a Knights Templar on Nov 22, 2008.

Presiding as High Priest of a local Royal Arch Chapter and today received the Order of the High Priesthood (OHP).

I'll post pictures if you like.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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This is 2010, not the post-war era when Freemasonry enjoyed its boom, courtesy of returning servicemen who'd been programmed to regard men-only organisations as normal; where men had been rendered accustomed to seeing matters in terms of black/white, good/bad, ours/theirs and had been programmed to disregard the rights of others and most of all had been trained in fear/authority/obedience mentality, forelock-touching & ladder-climbing dog eats dog mentality

This is 2010. An era of mass-communication, where previously clandestine organisations are subject to the prying fingers of anyone with access to internet

This is the era of anti-secrecy, where secret-societies are stripped of their prized cloaks and revealed to be no more than remnants of an age when those too poor and classless to gain membership of actual men's clubs were provided the working-class alternative: Freemasonry

And just as wood-panelled, genuine men's clubs have had their day and are now compelled to suffer the indignity of female membership, so has Freemasonry outlived its purpose and is regarded as little more than a progression from the Boy Scouts for those too scared to face life on their own feet and merit

The true power doesn't reside in Freemasonry, we all know that. It doesn't even reside within the remnants of the previous inner-sanctums of the genuinely powerful: the hallowed men's clubs of yesteryear

These days, the requirement to dress-up and make their way to their club is reserved for those who are unable to function without such trappings. There's no longer any need for private-rooms with guards at the door. This is the era of instant communication, providing those in genuine power the opportunity to discuss the world's future from the comfort of their toilet seats

Freemasonry (always regarded as childlike play-acting and simulation of what they imagined to be the real-deal) was long-ago reduced to touting for membership amongst those with nothing to offer and hopes only of personal-gain. Sure, Freemasonry attempts to trade on its previous reputation as providing unethical perks for its membership. But those perks were exposed long ago in all their worthlessness --- deals for the boys, for example; inside track finangling; mendacity; petty corruption; wink, nod, stupidly supposed 'secret handshake' which is all over Youtube, etc.

The allegedly 'top tier' illumination of the higher degrees of Masonry were conclusively exposed to consist of nothing more esoteric than a dirty weekend with the boys in which the awarding of the 33rd degree played a minor role

Freemasonry was long ago stripped of its carefully cultivated mystique and exposed as a farce. Those seeking to fast-track their career these days are at pains to disavow all connection with Freemasonry, which is regarded now as an impediment to social and other standing

These days, Freemasonic gatherings are like a history museum display, filled with creaking examples of a bygone age clanking around in their jewels and regalia. Yet the clueless still don't realise. Their comprehension is stunted, like bonsai. They live in the past, like those who devote their lives and energies to re-enactments of history. Those seeking to become Freemasons today are trapped in the era of their grandfathers and great-uncles, when the great-unwashed considered it an achievement to be 'accepted' into a faux 'secret society': one which accepted the butchers and plumbers, the car-dealers and accountants and provided them the opportunity to escape the wife and six kids in the days when tv and other mass media family-diversions were in their infancy. Bygone days ...

Freemasons now attempt to justify their existence (in order to increase their personal standing) by claiming to do good-works. And undoubtedly, some worthwhile projects exist under Freemasonry

However, it's not for good-works that Freemasonry is distrusted and its members know this well.

Freemasonry, under the auspices of those grandfathers and great uncles, became infamous for badness, for corruption, for atrocities, for he unspeakable

Does Freemasonry have any relevance at all today ? No, not in the minds of most. At its strongest, it was distrusted and reviled and sought to inspire fear within the community. Today, it's a bad joke, trying to brazen its way through the reputation it earned back when it believed it didn't need to give a damn



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Dock9
 

Which statement do you find ridiculous? My bikini comments? I guess I too have to put a [/sarc] after some of my posts.

I personally just want to clarify with the OP about his "Templar meeting". No one can deny that there are holes in the story.

Disdain by the general public? How so? Most people I meet are intrigued and ask questions. Only a small percentage have been as rude as some of conspiracy theorists on this site. Many people I've met are grateful for the charitable work provided by the various Masonic charities.

I didn't say I was going to check his membership, but I could ask someone who could. I personally don't have access to the Illinois membership database.

Your post shows me that you have no real knowledge about the ceremonies within Freemasonry. Your rude nature does not allow for any real debate. You came into this with your own disdain and you have done nothing but try to slander Freemasonry. None of your allegations hold an ounce of truth and have no legs to stand on.

reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Well, one could argue we are inclusive for just the religious, but we don't see that as a bad thing. This is explained pretty well to EAs so its something even the newest member knows.

Just because we require a man to have a faith doesn't mean we are a religion. We don't preach salvation, we don't seek converts, nor is religious discussion allowed to be discussed within the Lodge, and we offer no sacrament. We support religion, but we don't interfere with the practice of the individual's religious beliefs. Each follows his own faith in his own way.

reply to post by Dock9
 

Actually Freemasonry is enjoying a new wave of membership. Last year we held a ceremony every meeting, often with multiple candidates.

Its funny some of you are screaming about privacy violations, but you all sure seem damn pleased to stomp on what I do in my private time. If I want to be a Freemason, who are you to deny me that? It is not a criminal organization and it has survived the defamation throughout its existence. You claim evils and corruption, but provide no evidence. Its an empty accusation.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


My personal opinion is that you're in denial

but then you have to be, I guess

After all, it's clear you've invested deeply in what you obviously perceive to be your standing in Freemasonic terms

If Freemasory is acknowledged as a laughing-stock --- what does that make you, must be the burning question in your private moments

As Iv'e said, Freemasonry is like Lady Macbeth, unable to rid itself of its incriminating spots

So Freemasonry itself is in denial and seeking to begarded as relevant within a world that has it pegged fairly well and is way smarter than those of earlier, less informed generations

Sure, stick to running sausage-sizzles in the park to raise money for orphans. Well done. Fills in the time of those who need Freemasonry in their lives, need Freemasonry to play the role of parent to their own child, need authority-figures, need to believe they're part of 'something big'

By all means, exhort the dwindling membership in Freemasonry today to try to bleach away the stain of the excesses of its previous members

Doubtless there are Freemasons who've invested too much to quit -- who're waiting for the supposed big-payoff --- who feel Freemasonry adds substance to their lives and personality. Maybe they hope/believe there'll be a resurgence of Freemasonry, when the good times will again flow. I'd advise against wasting any more time in waiting, but hey, it's your life, your time, your choice

But I think Freemasonry needs to take a long, honest look at itself and at how it presents itself to the world and to how its perceived

And step-one would be for the Freemasonic Big Shots to tell all the Little Shots to shut their damn mouths and quit with the strutting and posturing and threatening

The first thing rank and file Freemasons need to remember is this: the secret label no longer applies to Freemasonry. Gone. Like the Dodo

There are NO secrets any longer, which is why Freemasonry collapsed/is suffering such embarrassing decline in membership

Freemasonry cannot provide a haven any longer for corrupt cops, for paedophiles, for embezzlers, etc. Over. Finished

And along with the collapse of the 'protection' racket which operated under Freemasonry--- went its appeal, in the eyes of those who used to seek to lurk within Freemasonry and it's 'you scratch my back' reputation

It's going to take a LONG time to wash away Freemasonry's tarnished reputation. There are people out there now in their teens and early 20's with a belly-full of hate towards Freemasonry and what they claim it did to them. So Freemasonry is going to have to out-live them

More to the point, Freemasonry is going to have to re-invent itself, starting yesterday, and to ensure it no longer sends a message of allure to those who lust to break the law and are looking for idiotic 'brothers' to cover-up for them

Freemasonry will hav to try, try and keep on trying, if it hopes to even half-persuade people that it's 'secret' shennanigans are clean

And naturally, people now as in the past ask Freemasonry: ' Hey, if you're clean, why do you hide behind locked and guarded doors ? '

Logical question, right ?


But the answers from Freemasons are ridiculous and serve only to convince that their members have a lot to hide ... a lot they're terrified of people discovering

If Freemasonry wishes to portray itself as a do-gooding, benign cult with Christian ideals, then why hide ? Other religions don't hide the object of their worship

Anyway, those who like hiding in cupboards cling to Freemasonry in the Big Fish-Little Puddle mentality. And tell themselves they are ... or will be .. 'respected'. Tell themselves they and their organisation are still relevant. Tell themselves they'll soon regain what they believe to be their 'standing' in the community. etc.

And why would anyone attempt to illuminate them ? IT's a waste of time, like trying to persuade Flat Earthers to glance at the globe. Like trying to convince the bald man his wig is doing him no favours.

By all means, cling to your little club. Obviously you need it. Who knows what might become of you if you didn't have it ?

But don't expect the general community to remain silent when a bunch of 'secret club' nut-jobs take it upon themselves to make threats and employ intimidation techniques on some poor, wel-meaning individual who posted comments in an open forum

The best advice anyone could offer freemasons is this --- recognise and ackonwledge your limitations. Don't get carried away. We don't share your infantile fantasies. Know your place. Reserve your nonsense for others as deluded as yourself, in private, along with intoning Dib-dab, bongo-bongo as you twirl aprons and stand on one foot, etc.

This is the real world. Freemasons do not have leave to drag their fantasies and impose them on others. Don't threaten, don't intimidate, don't provoke. It contravenes T & C



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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Ditto to Dock9 & muzzleflash – painfully frank but true on many points.

This is all very interesting and I’ve learned much. However, there is only one question I have for each and every Mason member. It’s the most important question you and every other person will ever have to answer.

THE QUESTION: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and that it is ONLY through His sacrifice on the cross that all your sins will be canceled?

A simple “I AGREE” will suffice for your answers. If you don’t answer… well… you know what us Christians believe. I will pray for you.

Every person has their own sin and even Masons can be forgiven - if they don't sell out to lucifer. Therefore, renounce Masonry before you get too deep. There are better ways to contribute to charities - without paying for the Masonry overhead.

Peace out.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by FearNoEvil]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by FearNoEvil
 


Hope you won't mind if I expand on that a little ?

Freemasons --- worship whomever/whatever you choose. But be prepared to be judged and held accountable and don't whine when it happens



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Dock9
 

Well, your personal opinion doesn't really mean much. No offense, but you are rather rude and hostile so if you think what you are is a good person I count myself lucky not to be like you.

I know my standing within Freemasonry and I don't believe myself any higher.

Only in your circle of believers, the fringe, is Freemasonry acknowledged as a laughing stock. I have serious question about your moral compass.

What are our incriminating spots? I didn't realize that charity was incrimination? I didn't realize striving to better yourself before God and man was incrimination?

We don't do sausage-sizzles in the park. We have held breakfast fundraisers and dinner fundraisers, but most of the time it comes from private donations. And the medical research the York Rite has helped fund has already better man and will continue to do so. You can name-call all you want, but the actions of Freemasonry will endure to show that it stands for goodness.

I would like you to prove the threats. You keep accusing, but show no evidence of anything. Its like listening to a broken record.

I'm just curious where this raw and vicious hatred comes from. Honestly, you sound like my 2-year old nephew throwing a temper-tantrum. You have blind hatred for a group that strives to better man and all you can do is name-call and accuse. Its quite childish, closing in on psychotic.

There will always be those that hate Freemasonry for whatever reason. We will not change because of the rantings of a few. Good men will see us for what we are and join us. Freemasonry helps better men, its not here to persuade the neurotic notions of the few and crazed.

Are we not allowed privacy? Are we not free citizens? Many groups and organizations meet behind closed doors. If you are all for disclosure, let me have your social and bank account number?

Again, where are these threats you keep speaking of?

I have a question for you: are you religious?


Originally posted by FearNoEvil
THE QUESTION: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and that it is ONLY through His sacrifice on the cross that all your sins will be canceled?

I am a Christian, but not every Mason is Christian. We are composed of men of many faiths. I'm in the York Rite which does require a faith in Jesus.



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