Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

reply to post by JoshNorton


Fair enough. Accepted


No. Not new at all. But generally avoid all Freemason threads in ATS, for very good reasons. Guess you couldn't fail to be aware that it's claimed across the interwebs that ATS is modded by Freemasons ?

And heaven help those of us who speak out about the OTO, huh ?

Ok, I accept that ATS Freemasons have acknowledged prior to this thread, their affiliation with Templars

Which means the claims now by Freemasons that everyone knows that and Vinny didn't reveal anything all Freemasons know anyway fail to explain why those same Freemasons reacted like cut snakes when Vinny revealed what 'everyone' supposedly knows ?

So I'm forced back to the conclusion that the screeching was elicted not because Vinny had exposed any 'dark secrets' ... but because the screechers were jealous ?

No other conclusion to be drawn, is there ?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Those of the Masonic Brotherhood, who know the connection, are tasked with making sure, no one outside of the organization talks about it or illustrate it.

Which is why when you type "masonic knights templar" into the search feature at Amazon, only 281 books come up... Yeah. We're real good at making sure no one outside the organization talks about it or illustrates it.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by muzzleflash
That is a lot of BS man.

I don't particularly care what their lineage is. It is kind of beside the point isn't it?

Is it? If you've got 50 groups calling themselves Templars, and for some reason you want to be a Knight Templar, which one are you going to join? What criteria are you going to set to make your selection? Maybe for you it doesn't matter. Maybe flipping a coin is enough. Or maybe you'll want to choose the one that's been around the longest? The one the others are copying?

Money that is the only real criteria.

If they have a lot of money they are legit.

If they have no money, well, they are a joke.

It is very simple. How did you not know this already?

Why isn't everyone on ATS a free mason?

I don't get why we'd sit around here and guess. My God - they have HUGE honking well marked buildings all over the world. Go in one and ask how to become a member and See for yourself!

Masons are people who hang out together because they like to talk about the stuff that we do on ATS without being ridiculed. Sound familiar?

There are normal and crazy and rich and poor masons, just like there are normal and crazy and rich and poor dentists.

The only reason people are freaked out by them is because they trust each other and a lot of people have problems with trust.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Beautiful POST

You know, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that the ATS Masons only learned about the Freemason-Templar connection in the last few hours, right here, in this thread

despite their claims of everyone knows that

I supect that what we're seeing here is a Freemasonic crisis unfolding before our eyes !

Could this be the case ? Seems so. It's looking like a Freemasonic Loss of Confidence !

You must be new here...

• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  
• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  
• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  
• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  
• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  
• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  
• www.abovetopsecret.com...
  

None of these threads admit the Templars are real and alive today. They claim all of them are fakes and wanna-bes.

None of those threads have Masons openly admitting being a Templar.

This thread has BOTH of these.

No, your links did not convince me. I actually clicked on them.

I do not see masons openly admitting to being Templars anywhere.

I am not saying they didn't, I just seemed to have overlooked it.

You know I would remember if someone claimed to be a Templar, its a pretty huge claim and I am sure I would have remembered it.

I am looking through these threads and I see nothing new. Just speculations and talks about medieval history etc. Nothing concrete to sink my teeth into like this thread offered me today.

Originally posted by Dock9
Which means the claims now by Freemasons that everyone knows that and Vinny didn't reveal anything all Freemasons know anyway fail to explain why those same Freemasons reacted like cut snakes when Vinny revealed what 'everyone' supposedly knows ?

So I'm forced back to the conclusion that the screeching was elicted not because Vinny had exposed any 'dark secrets' ... but because the screechers were jealous ?

No other conclusion to be drawn, is there ?

No, there are plenty of other conclusions to draw. Like Vinny didn't know what he was talking about, and the Masons here wanted to figure out what exactly he WAS talking about so they could set the record straight. Vinny was ill-informed and out of his element.

It wasn't a secret meeting; it has no relevance to mainstream American Freemasonry; and it has no connection to Masonic groups that have Templar-based degrees. So even the thread title "Freemason Knights Templar meeting" is misleading.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
That is a lot of BS man.

I don't particularly care what their lineage is. It is kind of beside the point isn't it?

Uh....no, it isn't.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Also, does it even matter if they are true direct descendants? No.

Uh...yeah, it does (for the relevance of this discussion anyway).

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The only thing that matters is they are dressed up like Templars, talk like Templars, looks like a Templar.

MUST be a Templar.

Halloween must be very confusing in your neighbourhood. [/sarcasm]

Originally posted by muzzleflash
1)The terms "legit Templar" means powerful, rich, influential.

2)The term "fake Templar" means dude in his basement dressed up and played "I wish I was a knight".

Can you give me a link to the page in the OED where these terms are defined as such?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
That is what I meant by the two terms legit vs fake. Do they have Money or not? If they got money, they are legit. Simple logic.

So only the Bill Gates of Micro$oft fame is the legit Bill Gates and all other William Gates' around the world are fake?

Logical extension of your 'logic'

Now, I did not read all the entries yet, so I apologize if somebody has already mentioned this, but without discussing what happened as I were not there and therefore I cannot know, I just wish to remember that Freemasonry, after the three basic degrees , gives to every brother the right ( no obligation, mind you, just the opportunity ) to make a choice among a few Rites, one of which is the Rite of York. It just happens that the highest order of this known, approved and well respected Rite is called, as you might by now have guessed, Knights Templars. So, it might just be that you attended a rite of Knights Templars , they trusted you, they discussed freely among them, you misunderstood and you run to tell everybody what you should have kept for yourself, just out of respect for fellow brothers who trusted you and discussed their private, but I would bet by no means illegal, ideas among themselves. You say that some very well known Americans attended ? Well, it is no mystery that many famous Americans, starting from B.Franklin and G.Washington all the way down to G.Bush sr were masons of the highest degree, so it might well be that some members of the highest order of the York Rite are famous men, so what ?

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Mario78]

Originally posted by jackflap

So I brought up a map and checked to see how far Osimo was from Ancona and I see that it is 20.9 k or 31 minutes away by car. So this is still a very valid claim that the opening post has going for it.

But he said it was a Scottish Rite meeting, not an IOGT meeting. If the guy went to a IOGT meeting and thought he was at a Scottish Rite meeting, he probably shouldn't have been the translator!

Just for the record, I am a Scottish Rite Mason and a Knight Templar, and in religion, I am a Gnostic. But I don't really see anything in this IOGT of much interest, and it is not related to the Scottish Rite, or to Freemasonry in general.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by JoshNorton


As I said, obfuscation, reverse tracks, seeds of confusion.

No you can’t stop non-Masons from talking about it, but as long as the Masons themselves don’t admit too it, then it’s hard to prove.

The thing that has you all on edge, was the near disaster of a verifiable Mason admitting directly too it.

By the way the Conference was timed to coincide with the anniversary of laying the Corner Stone of St. Peter’s Basilica.

Mercury turned Retro-Grade on the 18th, making it the perfect time to utilize confusion.

The 19th is Sigrblot, the first day of summer and a sacred Holiday to Odin.


[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by trusername


There are normal and crazy and rich and poor masons, just like there are normal and crazy and rich and poor dentists.

The only reason people are freaked out by them is because they trust each other and a lot of people have problems with trust.

No people are freaked out because they are working together to take advantage of the rest of the population.

That is why people don't trust them.

There is nothing wrong with trusting people.

But when they flaunt their "secrecy" in our faces, it makes us not trust them.

WHY would I trust someone who won't tell me this? Of course I won't trust you for keeping secrets.

Trust means you don't keep any secrets.

Like I said, we need to go over the definitions of words here...

Originally posted by Mario78
Well, it is no mystery that many famous Americans, starting from B.Franklin and G.Washington all the way down to G.Bush sr were masons of the highest degree, so it might well be that some members of the highest order of the York Rite are famous men, so what ?

Franklin and Washington were Masons. Bush is not.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
That Vincent, ah hem, what I saw was a man conflicted, who clearly told all of you he was a Mason and didn’t want to share anything in his estimation would break his vows.

Please stop embellishing. He did not say he would not break his vows by talking about what supposedly happened at thsi meeting, as a matter of fact, he did not say anything. I think that has to painfully obvious even to you.

You may commence with your next tortously wordy rebuttal.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by jackflap

So I brought up a map and checked to see how far Osimo was from Ancona and I see that it is 20.9 k or 31 minutes away by car. So this is still a very valid claim that the opening post has going for it.

But he said it was a Scottish Rite meeting, not an IOGT meeting. If the guy went to a IOGT meeting and thought he was at a Scottish Rite meeting, he probably shouldn't have been the translator!

Just for the record, I am a Scottish Rite Mason and a Knight Templar, and in religion, I am a Gnostic. But I don't really see anything in this IOGT of much interest, and it is not related to the Scottish Rite, or to Freemasonry in general.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Masonic Light]

What he said was that the Meeting was conducted at a Scottish Rite Temple and a Scottish Rite Mason invited him, and that Masons were openly embracing their connection to the Templars.

While he did say very little, lets just stick with in reality what he said.

I'm a Master Mason in the US, we can't even agree on what to have for dinner...sure we are bent on ruling the world...LMAO

reply to post by JoshNorton


Okay Well now we know

Which is disturbing for us and does not reflect well on Freemasonry, does it ?

As it so happens, I participated today in Beastmaster's ongoing thread which asks if the Templars were Jewish

That question remains to be resolved. However, information about the Templars revealed that they were accused of heretical pracices, such as spitting and urinating on the crucifix, of teaching women how to abort and other unsavoury practices

Just accusations made by insane anti-heretics, you say ?

This is alluded to in part by two aspects the Tempars' specific practice of their own creed.

One of the objects which they revered was the image of a decapitated head and from at least one of the Templar preceptories such a head fashioned from gilded silver, was removed.

The connection that such an object may have with early Christianity is confirmed by the degree to which the Templars revered John the Baptist and, bizarrely for a group who had been lauded as the highest manifestation of the Christian ideal, shunned Jesus.

Indeed there are records which show that some Knights thought of Jesus as a false prophet.

Jean de Chaumes stated during his interrogation: ' You believe wrongly, because he is indeed a false prophet. Believe only in God in Heaven, and not in him', while Deodatus Jefet is on record as saying: ' Do not believe that the man Jesus whom the Jews crucified in Outremer is God and that he can save you '

Perhaps the most extraordinary are the words of Fulk de Troyes, who claimed that he was told not to believe in the false prophet Christ, but on in a higher God. Shown a crucifix, he said: ' Set not much faith in this, for it is too young'

Another factor in the progrom against the Templars is of great interest. During the interrogation of those soldier-monks who were captured, one name recurs, Baphomet. This name, intoned by many before they were burned to death or as the result of the application of thumscrews and yet more horrific torture, has long been a mystery

Beastmaster's thread is here, along with possible explanations re: Baphomet: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Are the alleged heretical, anti-Christian beliefs of the Templars then, the reason for the desperate attempts by Masons here to distance themselves from the Freemasonic-Templar association revealed by Vinny (even though we all supposed know about it anyway) ?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It is the one thing that will bring them out in droves to obfuscate and deny.

It’s why they have showed up in mass, and kept on the thread. They will keep on it too, as long as required until it’s just them, talking to them, denying, and cajoling, baiting, and pigeonholing and switching topics all along the way.

That is fine by me. I am staying for the ride.

I am genuinely interested now as I see crumbs and they are tasty.

Oh these Masons will admit everything just you watch.

The truth is coming!

Man today rules!

Ipropaganda due

this is an interesting article about the p2 lodge and the alleged claims of scandal including a couple murders and mafia involvement vinny be careful you dont want to end up like these two guys do you, if not id be quiet about what you learned.

Originally posted by Dock9
You continue to state that Vinny could not have been accepted as openly as he described. For in your world-view, an 'initiate' is a nobody

No, I continue to state that I do not think Vinny is a Mason based on the timeline his own posts detail. Whether or not he went to a meeting with this Templar group is totally irrelevant to me as it was open to anyone. I do not care what meetings he attended, only that he seems to be passing himself off as a Mason when the timeline makes it very hard for him to be such. Not to mention he never read Emsed1's U2U on how to go about petitioning when Vinny asked the procedure.

But, for whatever reason, it appears Vinny was accepted. And he was invited to attend

Zippy the Chimp could have gotten in to that meeting, it proves nothing.

So it appears those who matter within Freemasonry do not place as great a store on Masonic hierarchy as do you. That's all. Happens all the time, all over the world. Doors are opened, invitations and more are extended

No, it either proves you did not fully understand me or I did not make opinions and stance clear enough. I think this post sould suffice to clear both ends if necessary.