Iran demands US troop withdrawal

reply to post by SLAYER69


Because you asked 'why does Iran have nukes'?

Unless of course you think Israel has nothing at all to do with Iran's national security concerns?

reply to post by serbsta



Sorry I couldn't help but intrude on your conversation Serbsta.

Why does Israel have nuclear weapons?

Can I just bring your attention to the land mass Israel is situated on?

moinansari.files.wordpress.com...

en.wikipedia.org...:Israel_and_arab_states_map.png

(I don't like using wikipedia but it provided a clear map of the region).

Lets not pretend the nations surrounding Israel would allow it to exist if it just gave up it's nuclear weapons and handed over some land.

Israel is targeted by the Islamic states because it is not Islamic.

Are you also aware of the Israel - Arab conflicts?

Are you aware of the speeches made in the likes of Syria, Iran and Egypt of how nice and lovely it would be if Israel was wiped of the face of the Earth?

Are you aware of how much funding for weapons to Islamic nations comes from the Saudi Royals?

You can't blame Israel for holding on to it's nuclear weapons because as soon as it did, all would converge on it and attempt to destroy as history shows us.

I don't like war Serbsta but Israel has a right to exist and it will take any means necessary to ensure it's existence like any other nation would do so if it found itself in Israels position.

reply to post by RWM88


I never claimed that Israel has no right to exist, nor that Israel is welcome among its neighbors in the ME. I simply answered a question posed by a member in regards to why Iran is looking like it may be on the road to developing nuclear weapons. I believe it is because of Israel and the weapons that they have in their possession. If Israel does not have nuclear and biological weapons then why does it refuse to sign the NPT and why does it deny the UN access to its facilities for an inspection? Iran has national security fears, it's understandable, but no, that does not mean it is right.

Cheers.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

Why does Iran want nukes?
IMHO that's a destablising of the ME.

Why does Iran want nukes? Maybe we should go back and ask the fundamental questions FIRST, maybe they will help you answer the question above. Here:

1) Why does Israel have (not just want) nukes?

I provided an answer as best I could for number 1 in your list of questions to Oozyism. Nuclear armament and the right to exist holds true in Israels case.

I personally believe Israel will never allow the UN in to their nation because the UN has done nothing. It's now a joke as the US proved. It has failed just like the League of Nations. The only thing it would achieve is to provide information on weapons capabilities to Israels enemies and give them a severe finger wagging.

Also the difference between Iran having nuclear capabilities and Israel, is Iran are more likely to use nuclear weapons offensively rather than a counter-measure like Israel.

In other words Iran are more likely to push the button, especially under it's current government.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

OK fair enough but why are they going beyond the necessary enrichment levels??

Riddle me that ooz

They aren't, 20% is for medical use they would need 95% for warheads, but let me be clear I want them to have the same level of kit as Israel and enough to make the yanks feel an attack would be too costly, in no way do I see Iran or any of the ME insurgent groups as my or the UK's enemy.

Once we're rid of the new Labour neocon cancer we can get back to being a sensible European country and stop pretending to be cowboys.

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by oozyism

 

You are such a naive person. Probably your naivety is a result of your black and white thinking. Like I have said many times before - and I'm gonna repeat it - Iran has more reasons to seek nuclear weapons than it is not to. Not to nuke Israel, but to protect itself from Israel and become a regional superpower. In other words, it makes sense for them to have nuclear weapons, any fool could understand that, but people blindfolded by bias and ignorant lefties prefer to believe it is all Western propaganda. The only aspect of propaganda is the fact that the West attempts to make people believe that Iran has no nuclear weapons yet and that they are a direct threat to Israel's existence, which is fear-mongering, they are a threat to Israel's lawless behavior.

If you would have done your homework, you would know that Iran has had a nuclear program for decades, acquired nuclear warheads from Kazakhstan and if they would have merely sought nuclear power, they would have had it already by now. I can recommend you to read this chronology on Iran's nuclear ambitions: source

[edit on 1-5-2010 by Mdv2]

However to get Nukes they have to jump so many hurdles one of which is an axis of evil preemptive attack that any fool can see that now is not a good time for them to go for broke. This is all just an attempt by the Empire to justify in the most flimsy manner an attack on Iran to secure Europe's oil and deny it to China.

The reason Europe needs ME oil is because UK/USA want to neutralise any possible bargaining tool Russia might have, Russia has behaved very reasonably with their oil it is Ukraine which has previously tried to use its strangle hold on the pipeline to avoid paying bills for ridiculously cheap subsidised Russian oil.

reply to post by RWM88


Surely they should try harder to make friends in the region rather than bankrupting and perhaps destroying the world in a series of pointless wars.

reply to post by Thepreye


Thanks for the reply Thepreye.

Bankrupting and destroying the world in a series of pointless wars? I'm not familiar with information regarding this Thepreye sorry.

I can give you an opinion though on making friends in the ME and a video link.

I don't believe Israel will ever be welcome in the ME when Muslim children are taught that Jews are pigs in Islamic Schools in the UK.

www.youtube.com...

Values like these will be taught on mass in the ME. Israel will always be viewed as a nation of pigs until the people of the ME overthrow the shackles of religious oppression.

I can't see that coming anytime soon

reply to post by RWM88


If only the Empire had paid the Palestinians for their land, if only Israel had stayed put in the bit of land we gave them, obviously the kids are taught to hate there's a war on don't ya know.

Israel has by far the best air force in the region they have the toughest mate in the world and they have nukes hmm they're obviously in grave danger, when Palestinians shoot fireworks at Israel Israel should respond in kind the same with stone throwers.

reply to post by Thepreye


The forces that be always seek reaction from Israel then turn around and point the finger of blame at them.

Israel are forced to take action because the governments of surrounding nations don't take action on extremism within their own boarders. Instead they would rather fund them.

Israel and it's settlements are not justified, I agree with that. They should hand it back, leaving it's neighbors no excuses to act aggressively towards Israel.

However Israel has to be the strongest in the region because it was forced to be.

The Arab - Israeli conflicts left them with no other choice. If they gave up on being at the peak of military strength now, then it will be game over for Israel.

I think the ME is the largets cause of the common headache

[edit on 11232009 by RWM88]

Originally posted by oozyism
If I wanted a debate I would just reply, what is the definition of stable?

Bring it all together, don't just read one post, Ohh yeah, let me do the hard work, let me bring it together for you zzz..

I change my mind, I won't, if you are reading this then you are in this thread so go back couple of pages and start again..

There are many things a person can use as THEIR reasoning in determining whether a country is unstable or not so it all depends on what a person is looking for.

More importantly it is better to say the whole region is unstable. Israel vs Iran, Iran vs Iraq, Pakistan vs Iran, Russia vs Afghanistan, India vs Pakistan, and throw Saudi in the mix long with a few other XXXstans.

Originally posted by serbsta
Unless of course you think Israel has nothing at all to do with Iran's national security concerns?

If Iran just ignored Israel and let them be do you think Iran would even have a need for a military much less a nuke?

If Iran was friends with the world having moderate views they would not need a military since they would have EU, US, Russia and China as good customers and friends.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by serbsta
Unless of course you think Israel has nothing at all to do with Iran's national security concerns?

If Iran just ignored Israel and let them be do you think Iran would even have a need for a military much less a nuke?

If Iran was friends with the world having moderate views they would not need a military since they would have EU, US, Russia and China as good customers and friends.

You're forgetting the parts where the west has been screwing with Middle Eastern affairs for nearly a century now.

Much of that screwing didn't help out their citizens.

Is Iran's regime pretty bad right now? Yeah. Is it anything compared to the western appointed puppet leaders? Absolutely not.

Originally posted by oozyism


And this is the reason why I love Iran, it is truely the only nation in that region with a voice..

When Bush said that Iraq/Afghanistan will be an example state in the middle east, he was wrong.. Iran should be an example state.. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan..

Both countries are in total devastation.. Heck Suicide bombing in Iraq exists even today..

Iran is right, America lost, just like Russia, time to get the F out, the US should act smart and leave now, rename itself, and wait until it revives..

What are your thoughts

oz

english.aljazeera.net
(visit the link for the full news article)

You love Iran....I guess you think there are no gays in Iran, breasts cause earthquakes, and Iran is the standard for the treatment of women.

Iran is likely saying this so that it can sweep into those countries and set up proxy governments of their own...Iran doesn't give two #s about the countries as legitimate entities, they want to control them. I can't believe so many people on this board defend these horrible people like the Iranian leadership, Chavez and Castro...etc. America's leadership sucks, but they're a hell of a lot better than these assholes.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by oozyism


And this is the reason why I love Iran, it is truely the only nation in that region with a voice..

When Bush said that Iraq/Afghanistan will be an example state in the middle east, he was wrong.. Iran should be an example state.. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan..

Both countries are in total devastation.. Heck Suicide bombing in Iraq exists even today..

Iran is right, America lost, just like Russia, time to get the F out, the US should act smart and leave now, rename itself, and wait until it revives..

What are your thoughts

oz

english.aljazeera.net
(visit the link for the full news article)

You love Iran....I guess you think there are no gays in Iran, breasts cause earthquakes, and Iran is the standard for the treatment of women.

Iran is likely saying this so that it can sweep into those countries and set up proxy governments of their own...Iran doesn't give two #s about the countries as legitimate entities, they want to control them. I can't believe so many people on this board defend these horrible people like the Iranian leadership, Chavez and Castro...etc. America's leadership sucks, but they're a hell of a lot better than these assholes.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by yellowcard]

Yeah, instead of infringing on human rights overtly, our leaders infringe on human rights through subversive means.

Originally posted by RWM88
reply to post by Thepreye

 

Israel and it's settlements are not justified, I agree with that. They should hand it back, leaving it's neighbors no excuses to act aggressively towards Israel.

What about Golan? Plenty of Israeli settlements there too. Do you think Israel should hand that over to Syria for supposed peace? Would it be crazy to ever let go of such a strategic location?

Originally posted by warisover
As crazy as Ahmadinejad is, he is saner than everyone in DC

i agree ,i dont like war but irans leader i hear him talk and he has an education, in fact i bet he could talk on any subject ,even ET, now bush and obama what would they talk about ,irans leader is down to earth ,where our elites are snobs and motivated by money and pressure,irans leader wears the same suit and cloths, he aint flash ,

i know its his religion,but that aside i think hes really well liked by his people ,But for how long?.
The western values are influenceing the iranian youth and soon they will be like western kids ,porn drink,no respect for parents except to get what they can, be bought ,Then drug takeing dealing and then athiests, religion serves more than the church.
it serves for family.
The west wants the goverments to be father and mother and healer,they sell it by we will look after your children while you can work while doing the extra shifts you need to survive,extra tax you are slave.
People dont get the pure creeping rot of this system.
it wont work in the end unless millions are killed ,but that is maybe the real plan ,why put chemists in walmart, and then tell people your perscription will be 1 hour to wait, the sick people then go touching all ovver the food spreading germs, 1 hours worth per person. think about it in a time of a bad contagion. im rambling sorry left the subject.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

OK fair enough but why are they going beyond the necessary enrichment levels??

Riddle me that ooz

Because reactors need fuel too, don't they?

Iran claims that the additional enrichment is aimed at refueling a research reactor in Tehran that operates on about 19.75 percent LEU and is expected to run out of fuel later this year.

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by oozyism

 

You are such a naive person. Probably your naivety is a result of your black and white thinking. Like I have said many times before - and I'm gonna repeat it - Iran has more reasons to seek nuclear weapons than it is not to. Not to nuke Israel, but to protect itself from Israel and become a regional superpower. In other words, it makes sense for them to have nuclear weapons, any fool could understand that, but people blindfolded by bias and ignorant lefties prefer to believe it is all Western propaganda. The only aspect of propaganda is the fact that the West attempts to make people believe that Iran has no nuclear weapons yet and that they are a direct threat to Israel's existence, which is fear-mongering, they are a threat to Israel's lawless behavior.

If you would have done your homework, you would know that Iran has had a nuclear program for decades, acquired nuclear warheads from Kazakhstan and if they would have merely sought nuclear power, they would have had it already by now. I can recommend you to read this chronology on Iran's nuclear ambitions: source





[edit on 1-5-2010 by Mdv2]

I don't need make assumptions in why Iran wants no nuclear weapons, their own arguments are mint, fresh, and reality based..

Here's one for you:

In an interview to Russian newspaper VIP, Ahmadinejad said there is no longer any use for nuclear weapons. "Did nuclear weapons stop the collapse of the USSR? Did nuclear weapons help the United States in Iraq or Afghanistan?" Regarding Israel, the president said that even with nuclear weapons, the Jewish state was unable to win the Second Lebanon War or succeed in Operation Cast Lead in Gaza.

Seriously I don't see the world as black and white, I see it as black, white and pink..

reply to post by yellowcard

You love Iran....I guess you think there are no gays in Iran, breasts cause earthquakes, and Iran is the standard for the treatment of women.

Iran is likely saying this so that it can sweep into those countries and set up proxy governments of their own...Iran doesn't give two #s about the countries as legitimate entities, they want to control them. I can't believe so many people on this board defend these horrible people like the Iranian leadership, Chavez and Castro...etc. America's leadership sucks, but they're a hell of a lot better than these assholes.

LOL same propaganda based rhetorics you hear in FOX news.. Nice to see ATS members still watch that crap, literally crap, meaning waste, not even recycled crap like some other stations..

No the American leadership doesn't suck, they are way smarter than you, better than you, they have tricked you hundreds of times, over and over again, consequently, and kept America united, kept the world divided, blablablablabla... Which is why America is a super power..


So no, they don't suck, you suck for falling through the cracks of reality in to the realm of propaganda.