Conversations throughout the Bible

reply to post by Hydroman


you bet. here's a chart that shows the etymology of ENLIL thru ALLAH. the author left out EL because he claimed EL and AL were not interchangeable, which is true and not true at the same time. here's his etymology.


EnLIL = god
LIL (drop gender prefix)
ILAH=god (semitic, arabic)
AL'ILAH=the god (add "the")
AL'LAH=the god (contract the semitic form)

EL falls into the chart, as far as i can tell, right after ILAH. it's all about the time line, as words evolve and cross years and cultural boundaries.

for example, the tower of babEL was also the tower of babILU, just that the ILU version of enlil's name, was late akkadian (meaning after sumer), whereas the EL version of his name was babylonian in time frame.

i wrote to a language expert, who specializes in ancient hebrew, semitic, akkadian, egyptian, and so on. and asked him if BA'AL was B'EL. this was his response

Bel is Baal because (1) Baal was rendered into Greek as Bel (the "e" being the long "e" - the "eta" in Greek - as opposed to the short "e" the epsilon); and (2) When the Greek spelling was transliterated into English (when various texts from the ancient world got translated), the transliteration was "Bel" since English transliteration doesn't distinguish between the short and long "e" of Greek. A scholar would use diacritical marks to distinguish them, but translations of these texts were meant for the wider English reading audience, who could care less about such precision (and it was easier to typeset too).

it's all about the timeline, and language as it evolves.

reply to post by Hydroman


Resume from previous:

the wrong interpretation of the bible is actually satans strongest weapon as the devil is in the details by adjusting the bible a tiny bit the whole message is altered

I can actually understand why most of us have a hard time accepting the bible. but I think it crucial to at least try and decipher the message. If anything living by the word spells a moraly clean and rightous life. not to mention all the other litle things the bible has solid advice on

Originally posted by faceoff85

as for god not writing this book. Uhmm... I guess the best viewpoint would be that of a director telling his secretary to write somethings down. the director has control over what is written down but never handled the paper. does that mean if we receive that letter its worthless because his secretary wrote it?

This would be done verbally. My wife does medical transcription work. She types out what is being said by the doctor. She can even make mistakes doing that, so there is usually someone else who goes over her work to make sure nothing is missed.

Originally posted by faceoff85
next point. God realting his message telepathically.
If you have a hobby relating to tarrot-cards or whatnot or you are doing things god describes as bad, and you were to get a message telepatically (wich would be quite a thing for us humans) you are probably talking to the wrong guy since god is surely not "walking with you" if you dont obey his commandments. Demons however need something different. to be able to have contact with demons you're gonna have to do some groundwork, get your pentagram up and running sotaspeak. The bible says that if you live according to his rules and refrain from all the "deep things of the devil" being everything ranging from RV to the well known use of ouji-boards, the devil and his minions would not be able to harass you. If in some weird case you do get harassed (like my dad who unknowingly bought a voodoo-doll in spain at the market and subsequently got harassed) it would be enough to burn a doll like that and call out gods name JHWH. If you wanna know where it says that in the bible you'll have to ask for it. my point is that the people writing the bible couldn't have been talking to demons since they dont hint anywhere at being in contact with bad fallen angels or practising habits wich would be comdemned by god. BTW if you believe in demons you'll have to acknowledge they used to be (none excluded) Gods workforce. Offcourse its higly unlikely god has any control whatsoever over his old minions.

Can't comment on that, haven't had that experience.

Originally posted by faceoff85
Then let me ask you this. as we know the bible and mostly god has an enemy who is deadset on making sure us humans wont worship the real god.
how would that enemy accomplish this? well he could badmouth god and try to make us believe he doesn't exist or maybe god is actually trying to destroy us instead of trying to make us "better". the devil could also (and this is very fuelefficient) try to "tweak" the bible and the resulting way of worship as god intended it. the convention of geneve in around 400AC is a good example of this being put to use. the WRong interpretation of the bible

And if we don't believe because of that, we get burned forever? If this god created us, and is omniscient, then he knows us inside out. He knows why we think certain things, and why we believe or disbelieve certain things. He knows what makes us tick, he knows why we make the decisions we make, and in the end he will punish us forever. Why would you want to serve that god? Out of fear?

Originally posted by faceoff85
:

the wrong interpretation of the bible is actually satans strongest weapon as the devil is in the details

by adjusting the bible a tiny bit the whole message is altered

I can actually understand why most of us have a hard time accepting the bible. but I think it crucial to at least try and decipher the message. If anything living by the word spells a moraly clean and rightous life. not to mention all the other litle things the bible has solid advice on

You, a human being, can understand why we would have a hard time accepting the bible. If you can understand that, then surely this god can. Yet, again, eternal punishment for this finite thing? Madness.

reply to post by faceoff85


just as an aside, you should probably do a study of the words that define "satan" in the biblical texts.

first time it is used is in the time of david.

serpent is actually seraph (and nachash)

a seraph is singular form of seraphim (race of angels, meaning there's more than one serpent in this context and some of these seraphim, were covering cherubim before the throne, for example)

strongs concordance helps alot with study. here's one online
www.eliyah.com...

i have a pet theory that satan comes from set+an ("set" being the serpent god of egypt and "an" being the generic god word in egypt).

[edit on 15-4-2010 by undo]

reply to post by Sonof the Widow


The Bible is full of lies.

Just like this world.

To anyone who believes in the Church and the Bible - take care of your own life, pease.

reply to post by undo

there's debate on the antiquity of the book of job as well. i've read somewhere abouts, that it's the oldest WRITTEN book of the bible. must've been written first, even though it didn't occur first, chronologically.

It means that its the oldest surviving copy of scripture around. Doesnt mean it was written before any of the others, just that the copies of the others that still exist dont predate that of the oldest copy of the book of job that still exists.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by fizzy1]

reply to post by catwhoknows


well THAT was convincing (hehe sarcasm).

i've been studying this thing judicially for a very long time. so i'd need some REAL big evidence that it was full of lies and not worth reading

reply to post by fizzy1


ah yes, thank you. i knew it was something like that.
oldest surviving copy.

Originally posted by undo
[well THAT was convincing (hehe sarcasm).
i've been studying this thing judicially for a very long time. so i'd need some REAL big evidence that it was full of lies and not worth reading

I agree, his argument was poor.

On the other hand, I'm gonna need some real big evidence that the bible is the true word of an omnipotent, omniscient god.

I dont know if the bible is full of lies. There is some pretty good stuff in there just from a philisophical point of view. great ideas about how to treat each other and so on. I dont have a problem with alot of what is written in the bible just how some people percieve it. Extreme points of view can come from any ideology and so you will always have fundamentalists.

The bible is however filled with contradictions. Alot of the contradictions come from a linguistic issue. Alot of words that were once used thousands of years ago dont have equal translations into modern day languages and so the people tranlating the bible do the best they can in terms of finding the closest approximation of a word or meaning of a statement.

An example i often use with people is how one of the ten commandments says thou shalt not kill. I mean to be literal in thinking is to say killing anything is a sin. All life on earth including plants and animals. Yet i really think the understanding here is to mean thou shalt not kill humans and not just that but being more specific to not tak the life of a fellow human in vain., or without purpose. Just read the story of jericho. God has no issue with jews killing other people down to every man woman and child. By todays standards this wouldnt be tolerated. The killing of children definetly wouldnt. So the bible definetly has inccongruities to say the least. Some of which i just cannot resolve in my mind as to why they happened.

reply to post by fizzy1


(because there's more than one god in the accounts. at least 2 of which, were called jehovah. one was supportive of humans, and tried to save their sorry behinds more than once. the other was constantly irritated to downright teed off with humans, and considered wiping them out entirely, more than once. we later learn these two are father and son. yes, yeshua is in the old testament in more than just a prophetic sense.)

How often do God and Satan converse? Probably quite often since God created Satan and Satan does still work for the Almighty. It reminds me of the age old question of, "If in the beginning there was only God and God was all good, where did evil come from?". The answer is simple, God created evil so mankind could have free will. How did evil manifest? Through Satan, (the angel that made the wrong choice). However angels do not have free will to make a choice. How did Satan choose to rebel against God if he could not make a choice?

Bah the whole thing falls apart under scrutiny.

maybe it's all as in how this passage describes it.

2 Tim. 3:16,17.
All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Originally posted by redgy
maybe it's all as in how this passage describes it.

2 Tim. 3:16,17.
All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Which scripture is this talking about? Remember, there wasn't a bible at the time this was written.

I'm assuming there has been scriptures/writings and beliefs beforehand that the bible is based on,

it cannot be only due to word of mouth or experienced events, otherwise how would you describe all that is written in the Old Testament or early works.

Scriptures or words of God were also preached by some of these authors for many many years before adding it to any book.

The point is that ALL scriptures pertaining to "the truth/words or works of God" was told by these narrators/authors in a sense as to not make these things of God become as false doctrine to the peoples, and that those who did write/preach these many scriptures through a belief that the inspiration came truely from God by way of prophecy or their commitment and works to God.