Conversations throughout the Bible

I'm just wondering what your ideas are on the conversations that take place in the bible. Much of these conversations take place when the author of the book that they are in was not around. Take Moses for example. He was not alive in the time of Genesis. How does he know how the conversations went between god, adam and eve, between god and himself and the angels, and any other conversation that took place?

Also take for instance Luke 22:41-42. Jesus was away from the disciples, and they were asleep as well. How does the author know what Jesus prayed? Did Jesus tell the disciples, "Hey guys, I just went over there and prayed, and here's what I said...?

Those are two examples of many that occured when the author was not present during the conversations. So again, how did they know what was said?

Inspiration from the holy spirit perhaps? If so, what exactly does that mean and how did it happen?

That is actually a humorous way to raise a point that has been so eloquently stated to "debunk" the bible...


How could any of these fellows have written with such accuracy(enough to consider it a volume of sacred law) the day to day lives of these ancestors.

That is a very good question and one I've wondered about myself. I also have to wonder about the people in this day and age who will say, " God wants this, or God thinks this way, or God says that, or God wants us to.... etc. " How does anyone know exactly what 'god' thinks, feels, knows, etc.

No one does.

There are no questions you can ask, that the answer can not be found
inside of you.

So find it yourself.

Do your own research.

That is actually a humorous way to raise a point that has been so eloquently stated to "debunk" the bible...

Yeah huh huh real knee slapper. Pathetic.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by randyvs]

Yeah tht is always something i never understood. Another thing is did jesus ever say anything that was not totally profound? It seems like the people paying attention to what he said left out all the casual small talk.

Originally posted by randyvs
There are no questions you can ask, that the answer can not be found
inside of you.
So find it yourself.
Do your own research.

The answer can be found inside of me? What the hell are you talking about? Is that how you find answers to things, by looking inside of yourself? Has your insides ever been wrong?

Another example is in the book of Job. God and Satan have a conversation, wherever it took place, and make some type of wager on what Job will do when his life is flipped upside down. How did the author know of this conversation between Satan and God and how did he know what was said?

And a side question, how often do God and Satan converse like that? Isn't that a little strange?

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Hydroman]

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by randyvs
There are no questions you can ask, that the answer can not be found
inside of you.
So find it yourself.
Do your own research.

The answer can be found inside of me? What the hell are you talking about? Is that how you find answers to things, by looking inside of yourself? Has your insides ever been wrong?

i think what he means is god talks to us all you just have to learn to listen

Originally posted by digby888
i think what he means is god talks to us all you just have to learn to listen

Is it really that hard for an almighty god to communicate to us, that we have to learn to listen? You know how many times people have gotten things wrong when saying that god told them something? I know of many times in my own personal experiences with christians that that has happened.

I asked my dad once, "If god asked you to do so and so, would you do it?"

His reply was, "I would have to make sure it was god telling me that."

Really, is it that hard to know the voice of an almighty god? If it is that difficult, why should we be held repsonsible for our unbelief? Why should we be punished with possible eternal torture (if you interpret the bible that way)?

Then you can couple that with the bible verse that states the heart is the most deceitful of all things.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Hydroman]

Originally posted by Hydroman

Also take for instance Luke 22:41-42. Jesus was away from the disciples, and they were asleep as well.

This particular example is easy.

Luke does not say that they were asleep for the whole period. The line says just that he caught them asleep when he got back. If the angush was loud enough, it could have been overheard.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Hydroman

Also take for instance Luke 22:41-42. Jesus was away from the disciples, and they were asleep as well.

This particular example is easy.

Luke does not say that they were asleep for the whole period. The line says just that he caught them asleep when he got back. If the angush was loud enough, it could have been overheard.

It says that Jesus was a stone's throw away from them. I can throw a stone pretty far. And if he was in anguish, how could his disciples go to sleep? But you could be correct.

reply to post by Hydroman


Its quite easy actually. The most important thing to be able to accept/understand is the fact that the bible is authentic. If you can accept this you will also have to accept god as being almighty and our creator.
So lets ask ourselves how would god try to teach us his point of view on life? well he did this with a book. But he never wrote this book, instead some unknown dead fellow humans wrote it. and quite a few at that. So how could god make sure what was written actually represents his views accurately? well since accepting the bible also means accepting god and his almighty stature, and acknowlidging him as our creator and the creator of everything else we can conclude god is omnipotent. With this in mind it is very feasible god would be capable of directing a book with his active holy sprit (in my point of view the best desciption of this power would be to say it is telepathically based and that would only be partailly describing it) Much like directors of movies create a movie with a lot of actors, cgi specialists and and writers. the movie is the fruit of the directors mind. If a director is capable of such would our omnipotent father not be capable of using humans to write his book just as he had planned out with intel the writers couldn't have? the fact that this book has survived a ton of ordeals (bible-burning, adjustments and whatnot) is a clear statement of gods will to make sure we in our time stil have acces to it. humans felt obliged to copy the bible while counting all the characters used. Does anyone know of another book where it had been as persistantly and acurately copied as the bible has? to this day we are still able to read the bible in its original state and written language. one could argue that parts of the bible-collective have been lost. again when having faith you could say that even though we are definetely missing chapters, god made sure we received exactly what we need. Thus the bible as we know it today is exactly how god intended it for us to be, nothing more and nothing less. The bible even states that as the end times are upon us new "light" would shine on our path. This could imply never before seen chapters surfacing, however it could also simply mean we'll get a better understanding of the message it holds.

I know I based alot of the previous on faith but I feel with religion it is the only way to go... the bible is true, but the only way to verify that is to use that very same bible.... thus the reason many people have a hard time believing

edit to chose words more carefully

[edit on 15-4-2010 by faceoff85]

Originally posted by faceoff85

Its quite easy actually.

Is it?

Originally posted by faceoff85
But he never wrote this book, instead some unknown dead fellow humans wrote it. and quite a few at that.

Thanks for stating that this god did not write this book.

Originally posted by faceoff85
So how could god make sure what was written actually represents his views accurately? well since accepting the bible also means accepting god and his almighty stature, and acknowlidging him as our creator and the creator of everything else we can conclude god is omnipotent. With this in mind it is very feasible god would be capable of directing a book with his active holy sprit (in my point of view the best desciption of this power would be to say it is telepathically based)

Ahh, that would make it much better, speak to us telepathically that way we have to try and figure out if it is god talking to us, or if it is our own thinking. Wouldn't it be better if he sat down right there with the authors and actually spoke to them? Heck, if it's telepathic, it could be demons doing the talking! Who knows where those voices are coming from?

Originally posted by faceoff85

Much like directors of movies create a movie with a lot of actors, cgi specialists and and writers. the movie is the fruit of the directors mind. If a director is capable of such would our omnipotent father not be capable of using humans to write his book just as he had planned out with intel the writers couldn't have?

Bad example. Movies don't go smooth. There's always blunders, foul-ups, re-edits, re-shoots, etc. because sometimes the actors don't get the feel for what the director wants....and because they are HUMAN and make mistakes.

Originally posted by faceoff85
the fact that this book has survived a ton of ordeals (bible-burning, adjustments and whatnot) is a clear statement of gods will to make sure we in our time stil have acces to it. humans felt obliged to copy the bible while counting all the characters used. Does anyone know of another book where it had been as persistantly and acurately copied as the bible has?

The Koran? The Hindu writings? The Book of Mormon?

Originally posted by faceoff85

to this day we are still able to read the bible in its original state.

What? There are no originals to compare it to, so how do you know this?

Originally posted by faceoff85
one could argue that parts of the bible-collective have been lost. again when having faith you could say that even though we are definetely missing chapters god made sure we received exactly what we need. Thus the bible as we know it today is exactly how god intended it for us to be.

Yet it is interpreted MANY different ways, which results in different denominations being formed.

Originally posted by faceoff85
I know I based alot of the previous on faith but I feel with religion it is the only way to go... the bible is true, but the only way to verify that is to use that very same bible.... thus the reason many people have a hard time believing

And do you blame them?

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Hydroman]

reply to post by Hydroman


there's debate on the antiquity of the book of job as well. i've read somewhere abouts, that it's the oldest WRITTEN book of the bible. must've been written first, even though it didn't occur first, chronologically.

reply to post by Hydroman


it's an oral history. the hebrews were the habiru. the habiru were the followers of the god of nibru, who was the sumerian enlil.

you're familar with these things?

reply to post by faceoff85


although there are huge sections that are definitely divinely-inspired in my opinion, there are also hundreds of mistakes in the english version. so many in fact, that it has spawned whole schools of thoughts and new religions/cults, that have developed theology based on translation errors. thankfully, the new testament doesn't appear to have as many of these errors.

one thing i've noticed is the entirety of the book (minus the errors) is multi-layered. especially the prophecies. the more you study, the more you learn, even if you read it repeatedly. it's like an akashic library squished into a few hundred pages.

Originally posted by undo

it's an oral history. the hebrews were the habiru. the habiru were the followers of the god of nibru, who was the sumerian enlil.

you're familar with these things?

Well, something along those lines. I haven't seen anything official in what you stated. Do you have a trustworthy source?

reply to post by Hydroman


you can reverse engineer it, fairly easy.

the hyskos shepherd kings were the habiru.
here they are in egypt, before they were known as israelites.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/1f3a4ce12d4e113a.jpg[/atsimg]

you can read some of the details of the connection between the hyskos and the habiru here:
www.amazon.com...

and who was enlil? he was EL

EN.LIL
LIL
IL
EL

his name became the one size fits all word for god by the time of the building of the tower of babel.

You showed me your ENLIL to EL conversion. Now, does that also work in the original languages of those names using the same alphabet they used?

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Hydroman]

reply to post by Hydroman


hehehe, Thnks for hacking down the input. After all it is my viewpoint and i deliberately left room for our nonbelievers. I however firmly believe.

but lets try to argue with the points you picked out, just for the fun of it

this whole point being easy I agree with you. Its definetely not easy but then again th reward promised by this book more than beats any kind of reward existent in our lives. So to have to do some hard and doubtfull work is in my eyes quite reasonable IF the reward is real.

as for god not writing this book. Uhmm... I guess the best viewpoint would be that of a director telling his secretary to write somethings down. the director has control over what is written down but never handled the paper. does that mean if we receive that letter its worthless because his secretary wrote it?

next point. God realting his message telepathically.
If you have a hobby relating to tarrot-cards or whatnot or you are doing things god describes as bad, and you were to get a message telepatically (wich would be quite a thing for us humans) you are probably talking to the wrong guy since god is surely not "walking with you" if you dont obey his commandments. Demons however need something different. to be able to have contact with demons you're gonna have to do some groundwork, get your pentagram up and running sotaspeak. The bible says that if you live according to his rules and refrain from all the "deep things of the devil" being everything ranging from RV to the well known use of ouji-boards, the devil and his minions would not be able to harass you. If in some weird case you do get harassed (like my dad who unknowingly bought a voodoo-doll in spain at the market and subsequently got harassed) it would be enough to burn a doll like that and call out gods name JHWH. If you wanna know where it says that in the bible you'll have to ask for it. my point is that the people writing the bible couldn't have been talking to demons since they dont hint anywhere at being in contact with bad fallen angels or practising habits wich would be comdemned by god. BTW if you believe in demons you'll have to acknowledge they used to be (none excluded) Gods workforce. Offcourse its higly unlikely god has any control whatsoever over his old minions.

then the whole director of movies parallel drawn by me... you kinda asnwered this yourself. imperfect humans with a tendency to sin alot compared to an almighty omnipotent god who made us humans in the first place....

To be honest I would not know wether those books you mentioned survived the same way the bible did.... I'm gonna look it up. thnks for the heads up anyway

the bible still existing in its original state... offcourse we dont have the original manuscripts but what we do have are copies in the original hebrew and greek language wich have been copied using the counting of characters i mentioned. BTW the original versions have the name of god mentioned 7000 times (JHWH). Ever knew that?

well on to the next point. interpretation of the bible as we know it. for 1 I know a different bible than most of us on ATS for instance my bible DOES posses the name of god more than 7000 times as it used to be. so I conclude my bible comes closer to the original than for example the king james version.
Then let me ask you this. as we know the bible and mostly god has an enemy who is deadset on making sure us humans wont worship the real god.
how would that enemy accomplish this? well he could badmouth god and try to make us believe he doesn't exist or maybe god is actually trying to destroy us instead of trying to make us "better". the devil could also (and this is very fuelefficient) try to "tweak" the bible and the resulting way of worship as god intended it. the convention of geneve in around 400AC is a good example of this being put to use. the WRong interpretation of the bible