Army to Court Martial "Birther" Officer

reply to post by Silver Shadow


Complete fiction.
If anybody is being "set up", it's this Bozo that decided not not follow orders.
And by the way, since when does the military govern the United States of America. Who CARES what a "large portion" of the military thinks about the President? The Constitution, which everybody on ATS claims to care so much about, without question, places the Military as subordinate to civil authorities, The Congress and The President.
Any member of the military that does not agree that they are subordinate has violatede their Oath to uphold The Constitution of The United States. NO BUTS ABOUT IT!
They need to be tried and punished.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
I understand about half the Pentagon and military brass are not at all happy with Obama and all the still unanswered questions about his origin and personal history.

You understand that, do you? Where did you get this understanding? Do you have a link that will help the rest of us understand?

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by Silver Shadow

 

Complete fiction.
If anybody is being "set up", it's this Bozo that decided not not follow orders.
And by the way, since when does the military govern the United States of America. Who CARES what a "large portion" of the military thinks about the President? The Constitution, which everybody on ATS claims to care so much about, without question, places the Military as subordinate to civil authorities, The Congress and The President.
Any member of the military that does not agree that they are subordinate has violatede their Oath to uphold The Constitution of The United States. NO BUTS ABOUT IT!
They need to be tried and punished.

and he is upholding his opath to the constitution... because he strongly believes as do millions of people that the CIC is not legit... and he will go down, as a (hate the word) martyr.

Originally posted by OldDragger
And by the way, since when does the military govern the United States of America.

The military justice system can demand any relevant documentation be produced before the Court to settle the matter.

While the SCOTUS have proved themselves to be corrupt and rotten to the core, the military are a far tougher and more loyal bunch of patriots.

The issue is not who governs America, but if the Commander in Chief has the Constitutional right to hold that position.

It might surprise you, but the military in particular hold some pretty strong views about loyalty, patriotism, and the Constitution.

Sadly in this case all Obama has to do is cause the issue to go to the supreme courts, and oh how do they get voted on to the supreme court?

So Obama gets to sit back and let his "friendly cronies" take the heat for giving the officer the electric chair and Obama never has to worry about that guy again. Oh and his BC... still in some underground vault that only opens to his eye/hand/blood print. so sadly the debate continues. round 475 goes to Obama. Who's next?

Sadly with the justice system in America, which is slightly better then Canada. You are innocent till the government says your guilty. Which right now he is guilty of disobeying an order from a superior. The order to go over seas comes from the CIC it is a general order to the unit and mailed to the person.but do you really think the CIC Obama knows the name of each person being sent over seas? the order comes from Obama to send 1000 more troops which is sent to the generals which is then carried out by the units commanding officer, which then results in not only not obeying the CIC but also the unit commander and anyone else who is tagged during the message being sent down to the lowly private. So unfortunately this guy may prove the original order was false, but he is still under the gun for each officer above him who relayed the order, as it should have been one of the top generals to call the order unjustified. Sadly this guy just doesn't have enough brass on his shoulders to justify this issue.

Show me a Constitutional requirement to "produce a long form birth certificate".
There is none. Obama, Congres and everyone involved in the electoral process has met their legal, Constitutional requirements!
Obama IS the President.
You "birthers" have been fed a line of horsepucky by WND and other right wingers that cannot abide a Democrat in office. You have fallen for propaganda, plain and simple.
SHOW ME THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT TO SHOW A "LONG
FORM" ANYTHING!

Yeah I posted this earlier. AND ALL YOU BIRTHERS IGNORED IT!
WHY? as an American citizen I demand you answer.
Really you don't answer because you can't. Most of you have only opinions of The Constitution, but no real knowledge of what it says or means. You simply use The Constitution like a street preacher uses The Bible!

I am going to play devil's advocate here for a change.

The Marine Officer Oath of Office

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Now with that out there for all to see (just a quick Google search, since I did not see it in the 2 pages of posts so far).

The oath is to the Constitution, not POTUS, even though he is the Commander In-Chief. If this Officer is challenging his citizenship and eligibility to be POTUS, would that not make him an enemy?

Not to sure of any of you other military folk out there but I was taught to challenge an order I felt was unlawful. I was taught to not follow every order blindly.

Now, if Obama is not eligible to be POTUS because he is not a citizen, how can he give a legal order?

I know I am kind of splitting hairs here and I am not saying I believe POTUS is an illegal alien serving in an office he does not belong in. I am just playing devil's advocate here. I have my own reasons for being sorry I ever voted for the guy but that is for a different thread.

Just felt like stirring the pot here a little this evening.

Nate

reply to post by OldDragger


I believe the problem is if half the country believes one thing, and the other half believes another, it should be the duty of the president to produce the official long-form certificate. "United we stand, divided we fall"...if this means anything to our government, then why wont they release the official long-form certificate? just because they have met the constitutional requirement doesnt mean they cannot go above and beyond to prove to the people that put his a$$ in office he is legitimate. Much like a job; if you want to prove yourself at work, gain respect, you go above and beyond your basic requirements. All they have done is the bare minimum. Im sure there are plenty of voters that voted for him, that now doubt him...do you really think that is right?

Originally posted by Enigami
I believe the problem is if half the country believes one thing, and the other half believes another,

What makes you think that "half" the country believes this? That's absurd! This is a fringe belief.

And by the way, he HAS proven it. It's this fringe group that refuses to believe it, even after he posted his BC for the world to see.

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009

Not to sure of any of you other military folk out there but I was taught to challenge an order I felt was unlawful. I was taught to not follow every order blindly.

Nate

Yes indeed, the Nuremberg trials made that point very clear.

Saying "I was ordered to do it" is no legal defense against committing war crimes.

If you are not certain that an order is lawful, then you have the legal and moral right to challenge it.
The Constitution is the highest law, and it clearly states that the POTUS must be a natural born citizen.

That is the point at issue here.
And what the Court Martial must now decide is if the pretender from Kenya can issue a legal order to the military.

What anyone "thinks" is of no account.
There must be a full paper trail, and legal documentation to back it all up.

[edit on 14/4/2010 by Silver Shadow]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


im sorry, but it is not just the "fringe" that believes this. You can figure that out talking to random people on the street, and i know this because i work for a grassroots campaign company and this issue has been brought up constantly on the street. Not everyone jumps online to post their opinions, not everyone is a member of ATS, and not everyone goes to a street corner with signs trying to gain support from passer-by's, and not everyone answers the little pole questions on certain websites. It is far more than just a fringe belief i hate to tell you. And you still didnt tell me why the president shouldnt bend backwords to prove he is a citizen, when thats precisely what his job should be about, especially since he has broken nearly every campaign promise that came out of his mouth.

From a legalese standpoint I would have to believe the officer is standing tough for the constitution first which is paramount to the make up of the country. If he is challenging the order to deploy based on the fact that the order it is illegal based on the authentication of the POTUS then the onus is on the administration to prove the authenticity of the CIC. The man is standing his ground for a good reason. Obama has not proven he is a natural born citizen of the United States of America as of yet and has gone as far as having documentation sealed and made unavailable to the masses. Let's not forget this is not an ordinary military grunt, this is a guy with some standing and decorations in service to your country that is standing up at this point.

reply to post by Enigami



You could probably get a good idea of the % of people that are "birthers " just from ATS alone. From what i have seen in the last year I'd say around half the people here think there is a problem worth looking into with regard to Obama's origin.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Enigami
Although, I do think its ridiculous to court martial anyone over their opinions. That is the real problem here.

I dont think they're court martialing him due to his opinions
but rather, refusing orders to deploy

Exactly he's getting fired like a job only worse.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



I have yet to see this proof, I did see what looked like a fake certificate posted here on ATS though, is that the proof you are referring to?


[edit on 14-4-2010 by habfan1968]

reply to post by habfan1968


that was my point my friend lol...For some reason whoever it was I was talking to seems to think that the people who believe there is a problem with his eligibility are in small numbers. But I, and you, know otherwise.

reply to post by OldDragger


Requirements to hold office

Section One of Article II of the U.S. Constitution establishes the requirements one must meet in order to become President. The president must be a natural-born citizen of the United States (or a citizen of the United States at the time the U.S. Constitution was adopted), be at least 35 years of age, and have been a resident of the United States for 14 years.

here is the requirement you requested.

Originally posted by Enigami
And you still didnt tell me why the president shouldnt bend backwords to prove he is a citizen, when thats precisely what his job should be about, especially since he has broken nearly every campaign promise that came out of his mouth.

He has proven it. He can't make people believe it, but he has proven it. I'm not going to get any more into the "proof" aspect of this as I have just spent hours over the past few days talking about it and I'm a bit burnt out on it for right now. You can read about it here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by habfan1968


ATS is a conspiracy website. We do NOT represent the opinions of the public at large. Many of the public thinks conspiracy theorists are nutjobs.

reply to post by habfan1968


Yes.

Ok...

Frankly this whole thing is completely retarded -

If YOU don not recognize that this entire birth certificate issue is a partisan, red meat sampler platter, chances are YOU

A. A Retarded
B. Liar
C. A Retarded Liar

No offense to retarded people for they truly cannot help it. However, there is no other word in the English language that can properly describe the mental capacity of people who pursue this issue in total belief of the conspiracy and the psychology behind it.

The military cannot remove Obama, The SCOTUS cannot remove Obama. The ONLY people that can remove Obama is the Senate!

Shesh oh Pete! For a bunch of "Constitutional Patriots" some of you don't know [snip] about the Constitution.

This guy is going to end up either in a military prison or just plain kicked out.

Personally I hope he is dishonorably discharged and just sent home.