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Army to Court Martial "Birther" Officer

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posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red


If YOU don not recognize that this entire birth certificate issue is a partisan, red meat sampler platter, chances are YOU .................


So why has the guy from Kenya had all his personal records sealed, and is reputed to have spent well over a million dollars in legal fees preventing anyone from seeing any of the evidence ?

He is definitely hiding something significant.
And this Court Martial may force him to bring his records out into the open for proper public scrutiny.




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 



So why has the guy from Kenya had all his personal records sealed, and is reputed to have spent well over a million dollars in legal fees preventing anyone from seeing any of the evidence ?


Because:

Hes from Hawaii not Kenya.

I would seal my records too, screw you 4th amendment hating people.

And where is the actual proof that he has spent any money in legal fees?



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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So then, if you are right, there is nothing for him to worry about is there ?

But these problems for Obama are not going to simply go away.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I cant believe you are in favor of a president keeping records sealed from his past, whether bad or not. Your way of thinking about this is ridiculous. And we know he's from hawaii how? Just like we know he's not from kenya right? Terrible way of thinking. His own grandma said he was born in kenya. His own wife referred to Kenya as his home country.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Enigami]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by Enigami
 



I cant believe you are in favor of a president keeping records sealed from his past, whether bad or not.


I am a firm believer in the 4th Amendment. If you are unaware of what the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution is. I will give you the full text of it here:


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Source: www.archives.gov...

The right of the people to be secure in their person, houses, paper, and effects, against, unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,


And we know he's from hawaii how?


The following pictures are taken from: www.factcheck.org...











If that is not enough proof for you, then I give you the following...

Dr. Chiyome Fukino says that Obama was born in Hawai'i...

State declares Obama birth certificate genuine




HONOLULU (AP) State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

Fukino says that no state official, including Republican Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently.

She says state law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

Some Obama critics claim he was not born in the US.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Furthermore:


For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008

STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”


Source

and even more proof.

Born identity


Question: What is the state's policy for issuing a "Certification of Live Birth" versus a "Certificate of Live Birth"? My first, second and fourth children received certificates, but my third and fifth children received certifications. Why the difference? The certificate contains more information, such as the name of hospital, certifier's name and title; attendant's name and title, etc. The certification has only the child's name, date and time of birth, sex, city/island/county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name and father's race. Why doesn't the state just issue certificates? When did it stop issuing certificates? Is it possible to obtain certificates for my third and fifth children?

Answer: No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.

Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.

"The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



His own grandma said he was born in kenya.


You didn't hear the whole audio. Just the bit that was purposely taken out of context in order to make it look like Obama's grandmother said so.

www.salon.com...


Here's the conversation:

MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?

OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.

MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.


full audio here


His own wife referred to Kenya as his home country.


That's right, she did, that would be like if you were of Irish ancestry, your home country would be Ireland.

There are plenty of birther threads on this board. (way too many really) the fact of the matter is, this guy willfully disobeyed orders and should be court martialed for the offence.



[edit on 4/15/2010 by whatukno]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


ok, i know what the 4th amendment states you really didnt have to post that. It doesnt prove a damn thing...he is THE PRESIDENT, not an ordinary citizen, and when the people that put his A$$ in one of he highest positions in the world, it is his obligation to not withold any information....well, maybe not obligation, but it is THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Its obsurd you defend his secrecy. Is that really what we want in this country? a president that keeps important information from the public? the public that voted him in? sorry, but thats disgusting. And im Ecuadorian..but do i refer to Ecuador as my home country? no, because i was born here. That makes America my home country, unfortunately. and theres no official piece of paper that would ever have my name on it and refer to Ecuador as my home country either. Peace and Respect to you, but i just dont see the sense in secrecy.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Enigami
 


The public never voted him in, they voted for electors. the electors voted him in, he was then confirmed by the Senate, then the chief justice of the SCOTUS swore him in.

He has absolutely zero obligation to show his personal papers and effects to the general public because of the 4th Amendment. Anyone who thinks that he is required to show the public any personal papers are an enemy of the Constitution. They despise the 4th Amendment, want to destroy the 4th Amendment so that they can start demanding personal papers and effects from anyone on the street they want to. Hell if you can demand such things from the POTUS, what stops you from demanding MY papers while I walk down the street? Maybe I just don't look right to you and you want to make sure that I am a citizen, well without the 4th Amendment, you could because I would have no protection from gangs of birthers running around demanding papers from whoever they so felt.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I just want you to understand that i do COMPLETELY agree with you. BUT, again, he is the president. Honestly, what harm would it do him if he addressed the country on T.V. and said "look, i have nothing to hide." and then held up his original long-form birth certificate and showed it too us all? Instead, he chooses to keep it secret? again, i understand and agree with what your are saying, but he is no ordinary citizen that is applying for a job at Wal-Mart or has come in question about his citizenship by Wal-Mart. And I FULLY understand the process of how one gets elected president, i have independantly studied that aswell, and i do own a copy of the constitution like we all should, but he owes it to us to not withold info. Imagine how much repect he'd gain from all sides if he did so. It's just a question of decency.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by Enigami
 


Obviously you didn't read the above part where people cannot get their long form birth certificates anymore from Hawaii.

Born identity


Question: What is the state's policy for issuing a "Certification of Live Birth" versus a "Certificate of Live Birth"? My first, second and fourth children received certificates, but my third and fifth children received certifications. Why the difference? The certificate contains more information, such as the name of hospital, certifier's name and title; attendant's name and title, etc. The certification has only the child's name, date and time of birth, sex, city/island/county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name and father's race. Why doesn't the state just issue certificates? When did it stop issuing certificates? Is it possible to obtain certificates for my third and fifth children?

Answer: No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.

Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.

"The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


BTW this thread is not about Obama's birth certificate directly, it's about the officer who is defying orders and should be court marshaled.




[edit on 4/15/2010 by whatukno]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Enigami
 


Why is it ridiculously obvious?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


EXACTLY...so lets just drop it, in this thread at least. I still feel that although i may be considered a "birther", its a waste of energy to whine about that subject. And this officer should've put his foot in his mouth and do what is expected of you when you join the military. Its nothing to get in serious trouble about. Hell, i hope im wrong about his eligibility, and i know thats something most birthers probably wouldnt honestly admit. Peace and Respect to you.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

You would be incorrect. Lakin also has no legal standing to view Obama's personal documents.


You know whats sad about this....Isnt the President suppose to lay his life open for America? There is no "personal" documents for the President. He is supposed to be the embodiment of our country, and he gives up the freedom of a "personal life" for that duty.

Maybe your right, and the court will not require Obama to prove this soldiers "wild" fantasies, but why should we wonder if Obama would or not? This is at the core of the distrust of this man for alot of Americans! We should KNOW that our President would defend his birth on American soil by presenting the long form IN PERSON to the court room! But he won't. We know he won't just throw the concerned citizens a bone and release the ACTUAL document to lay this thing to bed.

A photo of the original with the EXIF data to prove it's not photoshopped is obviously not enough. There are soldiers under his command, not just crazy right-wing "birther" civilians, who want to see the actual document........So why not just defend this thing by handing it to this soldier at the court marshal, and let that be that?

I'm as sick as anyone about hearing about it, but I still believe the President gives up his private life when acting as Commander and Chief, and he should not be allowed to hide ANYTHING from Americas citizens. But thats just me I guess.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by treemanx
 



Isnt the President suppose to lay his life open for America? There is no "personal" documents for the President. He is supposed to be the embodiment of our country, and he gives up the freedom of a "personal life" for that duty.


The POTUS is a citizen 1st, which means that he has the same protections under the Constitution that any other citizen does. Including the 4th Amendment. I know birthers want to destroy this Amendment so they can start rounding up people they feel are illegal and haul them out of the country, but it's still one of our rights under the bill of rights.


I still believe the President gives up his private life when acting as Commander and Chief, and he should not be allowed to hide ANYTHING from Americas citizens. But thats just me I guess.


Thankfully it's just you and less than 0.015% of the population that are Constitution hating Nazis.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Enigami
Is that really what we want in this country? a president that keeps important information from the public?


What important information? We have all the important information. Demanding to know every detail about him is just being intrusive and nosy.



i just dont see the sense in secrecy.


Secrecy is the practice of keeping something secret.
Privacy is the freedom from unauthorized intrusion.

There's a BIG distinction. He owes us NOTHING in the way of personal documents. He wasn't obligated in ANY way to post his BC like he did. He went BEYOND what was required. And no matter what he does, there will always be those who think he didn't do enough. That's too bad for you. You're just going to have to live with your outrageous expectations.

Birthers are trying to violate Obama's rights and they should be ashamed for promoting the Constitution, as if it's something they believe in, because they clearly don't defend it.


Originally posted by treemanx
Isnt the President suppose to lay his life open for America?


According to whom? Where in the world did you get that idea? No president EVER has.


he gives up the freedom of a "personal life" for that duty.


No. He doesn't. That has never happened. Every president has had a personal life. You want a TV camera in Obama's bedroom, too?



A photo of the original with the EXIF data to prove it's not photoshopped is obviously not enough.


Obviously not. And if he could possibly obtain a long form and presented it to the courts, there would be a new conspiracy that he somehow manipulated the courts or gave them a fake or paid off the documents specialist. It would go on and on. It WILL go on and on, no matter WHAT he does.



There are soldiers under his command, not just crazy right-wing "birther" civilians, who want to see the actual document...


They have NO RIGHT - They are not authorized to violate his freedom of privacy.



I still believe the President gives up his private life when acting as Commander and Chief,


You have every right to believe that the president gives up his Constitutional rights, but you are mistaken. The rights of American citizens shall not be violated, INCLUDING the president's. And if you REALLY believed in the Constitution, as I do, you would defend that.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by habfan1968
reply to post by OldDragger
 


Requirements to hold office

Section One of Article II of the U.S. Constitution establishes the requirements one must meet in order to become President. The president must be a natural-born citizen of the United States (or a citizen of the United States at the time the U.S. Constitution was adopted), be at least 35 years of age, and have been a resident of the United States for 14 years.

here is the requirement you requested.




How about you highlight the "long form" part? I'm not seeing it.
Those requirements have been addresed by The Congress, and the entire process has been done to all legal/Constitutional requirements. Gee, that's why Obama is President today!

Say, while you are highlighting, let's see the Constitutional requirement for the President to satisfy every crank, fringe request by a citizen.
I'm, sure there is sombody that thinks he's a reptilian! You think he should go on national TV and talk about that? Or maybe prove his religious beliefs to satisfy the nuts that think he's a Muslim plant?
He did EVERYTHING he needed to do and moved on. WHY CAN'T YOU?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:07 AM
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I only wish the military still shot deserters.
If this guy was lower enlisted he would
have already been convicted and sentenced.

This "long form" birth certificate is not the
issue. He could show it to everyone and
all of you who question his eligibility now
would claim it is a fake.

I do not need to see one for numerous
reasons.

1. If Sarah "pall'in around with terrorists"
Palin is not shrewing about it then it is not
an issue.

2. I have never seen my "long form" birth
certificate. At my age and background I surely
would have needed it and would still need it.

3. I explianed that, as well as describe in
detail what my birth certificate looked like
and one of the "birthers" pretty much called
me a liar. Because of that I know it would
make no difference at all to you people.

As far as the majority of the military actually
questioning the knowledge and commitment
of our CIC., it was probably Clinton when he
put Les Aspen in as SecDef. That guy made
Rumsfeld look like a genius.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by Enigami
 


why, because he is black?

so bloody petty!


[edit on 15-4-2010 by boaby_phet]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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He took an oath. He broke it. He is now responsible for his actions.

To me it reeks of attention seeking as a beginning to a political career.

Funny how the 'sealed records' of one president are so important.
Nothing said about Shrub's sealed records.

Court Martial, jail time, good riddance.

Just a bad soldier.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Enigami
 


I absolutely positively do not agree with you on this subject, because you are turning your presidents into kings with it.

In the United States, the president, and every other political office holder are still full citizens with full rights. What you are asking him to do is to loose his constitutional rights because of his job. It would be like me saying you should have no second amendment rights if you work with children, because guns and children don't mix. See it is a horrible jump and one that is highly illogical, and it underlines one massive point:

You are requesting constitutional rights be denied to a citizen of the United States, either by law or by public opinion.

What you want sounds more like how things work over here in the United Kingdom. The Queen is technically not a citizen of the United Kingdom but a monarch. She has different rights and grants than a normal British citizen.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 


what's the funniest thing about this mater : taking a stance about Obama being or not legally the president, or THE FACT THAT WE ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION NEARLY TWO YEARS AFTER HE GOT INTO OFFICE ?

seriously , this matter is a dead end. He'll finish his term no matter what.



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