Belgium moves to ban the burqa

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
The Muslim men are not going to be bothered by this in the least but the real losers of this whole deal are the women...
For the Muslim man it is not to difficult to make your wife stay home. For the Muslim wife to get outside, her only option is to wear that damn burqa. If that is taken away, she is literally convicted to a life in prison.

"Well, those women should stand up for them selfs!!"....

Right, but that takes time and education. I believe the biggest group graduating from colleges and universities in the Netherlands right now are Muslim women. That's positive!! Educate them..and let them set their men (and their fanatic religious ideas) straight. To "destroy"the Muslim "threat" you have to destroy it from the inside out.

Liberate their women and pretty soon the Muslim-man can go outside and play but have to be home for supper...

Peace

This sends a message that anyone using their religion as an excuse to oppress their women are in the wrong nation- it will only speed up the freeing of the slavery many of these women find themselves in

Originally posted by XyZeR
I'm a Belgian, and this has to be the most retarded law ever proposed,

I've read a study that the total number of woman in Belgium who want (or are forced to) to wear a burka are +/- 25 people....

I live in the 2nd biggest town in Belgium, Antwerp, and there is a huge Muslim community here, but personally I've never ever seen someone wearing a burka in public. That says a lot.

So this is a law(proposal) aimed at a minority of about 25 people... which imho is retarded, then again so are all our politicians, so i'm not suprised.

It's so typical, and your so right.

For example go to Paris or Lyon, France. Do you see a lot of beautiful women with beautiful flowing hair, and olive skin? Well guess what most of them are muslims from north africa, moroccans, algerians. Ignorant tourists would not even realise they were mostly muslim.

But france also makes a huge deal out of bukras. I have muslim cousins in France, and non of them even wear a scarf, and they are also very beautiful too. And yet they are highly intelligent, and choose what they want to do with their life and what they want to wear. It's just the same with most other muslim women in france and London.

It's very rare to see a woman in a bukra. And if you do see one, they most likely would tell you it's their choice. ( leaving saudi the countrol freak country out of this thou lol)

These rules baffle me haha, it's like they want a reaction out of muslims.



[edit on 31-3-2010 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Yes, get a reaction out of those that support or wear such garb- hopefully the reaction will be leaving the country

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

And what happens to women who choose not to OBEY GOD so strickly? Honestly, how does the male part of your culture deal with such women?


[edit on 31-3-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Nothing happens. I come from an area where 100% are muslim. My mother wears a head veil (no burqa or whatever), my sisters don't wear veils, nor my cousins, someone wears a veil, some don't. AND NOTHING HAPPENS.

GET IT NOW?

You want proof?

I come from northern Albania - take a trip there, check for yourself.

So, cut the crap, all of you, who talk without knowledge.

Seriously, STFU.

I can confirm this as someone in a muslim(moroccan) family. A couple of women in my family wear head scarfs, but most of the muslim women in my family wear normal western clothing and no headscarf. All my cousins, my sister, my aunties. And no man can control them, it's their choice, in fact some sometimes they have a phase where they feel like wearing a scarf, and other times they don't

And what's more funny, these arab women are like the boss of the family, it's the other way around lol. Don't mess with these women haha.


[edit on 31-3-2010 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I guess this pretty much sums it up..

The Western educated Muslim women do not find themselves victims of racism but rather of sexism of Muslims men. An educated self-confident woman is always a threat to men steeped in medieval madrassa education. Hence the almost forcible imposition of the burqa on their womenfolk under threat of violence. The simple fact is that madrassa educated Muslim men are afraid of western educated Muslim women because they know they will be losers when competing with them.

source

I know, i know, it's out of the mouth of some American with a Ph.D. in medieval Middle East history, so what does he know. But non the less, food for thought.

Peace

the wearing of these items of clothing are proof of the oppressive nature of the culture these women find themselves in, some people waffle about choice, and yes, some women may choose to oppress themselves, but how come none of the muslim men wear such items of clothing if it is so empowering!

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

I guess this pretty much sums it up..

The Western educated Muslim women do not find themselves victims of racism but rather of sexism of Muslims men. An educated self-confident woman is always a threat to men steeped in medieval madrassa education. Hence the almost forcible imposition of the burqa on their womenfolk under threat of violence. The simple fact is that madrassa educated Muslim men are afraid of western educated Muslim women because they know they will be losers when competing with them.

source

I know, i know, it's out of the mouth of some American with a Ph.D. in medieval Middle East history, so what does he know. But non the less, food for thought.

Peace

I don't know what that is, I'm talking from my experience living a life with real muslim people, in a real muslim family, visiting family in a real muslim country (morocco)

If some muslim men feel this way, well that's their problem lol. To me the more intelligent a woman is, the more attractive she can be, and of course more interesting


[edit on 31-3-2010 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
If some muslim men feel this way, well that's their problem lol. To me the more intelligent a woman is, the more attractive she can be, and of course more interesting

I certainly agree with that!!

But i think we should really differentiate between Sunni and Shia Islam, right??

A lot of my friends have the Turkish nationality and i can tell you that they certainly do not feel threatened by their spouses but i know for a fact that they are not the ones wearing the pants at home...

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


LOL yeah the Turkish are cool.

Anyway I don't speak for every muslim country, just the muslims I know.

To me Saudi Arabia is one messed up country, and from the things I've read I do not agree with most of their laws and ways of life, some of it is very disgusting, they scare me infact.
Every country is different.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by _Phoenix_]

To quote a woman I know who is from Saudi Arabia

She is in the West, and she is a modern woman.

When she's back there she does what her owner tells her to do.

She has a husband. But she is not MARRIED. She has a contract, and that contract is not applicable here. She has an owner, and when she is here she dresses accordingly.

This woman isn't some young rebellious girl. She's a grandmother.

The men IMPOSE this. They are OWNERS of women.

That is what the burqua means. It is a sign of submission. And it is culturally unacceptable here.

reply to post by XyZeR


I'm Belgian as well, live in the same town as you do (Antwperp) and I have to agree that I have never seen a woman wearing one in public. Never.

It's all a result of one hell of an upstired debate that started two years ago... I feel like it's not about the burqa or the scarfs anymore but about who will win the debate, and with that: the votes.



[edit on 31/3/2010 by GypsK]

It is not the fault of the woman if she is beautiful. It is not the fault of the woman if she is desirable. It is our males fault if we do not draw the line between appreciating beauty and acting out beastly fantasies in real life.

The purpose of such covering up style dresses is actually to protect the women. We all know what happens when a beautiful lady dresses sparingly.

We men ogle at them, some pass flattering remarks uncalled for, some pass unflattering perverted remarks and worse when some decide to take further action. Let us men not deny such emotions in us.

Thus in ancient times, those of the Muslim faith decided to spare the inherent animalistic behavior in men by covering up their women, to prevent temptation.

And most Muslim women understood the reasons, and not regret later when something adverse happens, especially in a male dominated society the ancient times were.

However, we are no longer living in ancient times.

We have liberty of womanhood, the right of woman to stand up on her own and be responsible for her life, given the vote, to share the joys and suffer the woes on equal terms with men, except for biological functions which are naturally unequal anyway.

Therefore, it is within her to exercise her right and be herself, to either show or hide her beauty without fear or favor from men, and know that she is protected all the way and all her life in a civilized society.

Men too, once given her rights, must equally learn to control their own emotions and mutually respect each other, after all, men came from women, and each knows a mother, sister, or daughters.

Living in a civilized society would mean each man or woman have a responsibility to each other. Those men who don’t will get a brief spell in jails which house some of their fellow perverts.

Countries that are secular welcomes diversity, had built up their societies on secular civilized values of freedom with responsibilities to each other.

The freedom to practice one’s religion is assured in most national constitutions, so long as it does not encroach upon the right of another. Consideration and tolerance is much needed when sharing common spaces.

The wearing of the burqa would not had been much of an issue, for no country seeks to have ‘fashion police’, but unfortunately, in such turbulent times, that dress is often used by criminal elements to conduct their operations in public, and would only cause fear and panic, intended or unintended.

Thus, in order to protect the public, such dresses would have to be outlawed.

For women who feel uncomfortable in public gaze, there are other dresses and apparel that can hide a woman’s feature well, such as hats, sunglasses, long lose dresses, wearing no makeup that would be much better than the burqa which hides everything, even the eyes, and making anyone in public not sure if it is a woman or a man hiding inside.

Furthermore, with such a law in place, anyone who wears the burqa can be stopped immediately and subjected to a thorough search, which in the past would be considered religious discrimination.

It is hoped that the peace seeking Muslims may understand such necessary laws in these troubling times. Too many radicals are using hiding behind such veils to conduct murders upon innocents and must be stopped.

Peace.

belgium is one of the more radical european countries on par with France. This is yet another example of their religious intolerance.

clearly belgium is once again interfering with religious freedom by inhibiting a religion from its customs and traditions. Belgium is making the matter worse now by oppressing women further by removing their ability to express themselves, whats next nuns and priests cant wear black.

Belgium is forcing these women to have rights who dont deserve them since their muslim. Muslims dont have the same values is what I am saying, their ideas of personal freedoms and independence is different then other religions to their historic traditions and cultural norms. this law obeys the right of muslim women to be persecuted by muslim women as their religious doctrine dictates. Their religion and those who are part of the faith enjoy this aspect much like couples who engage in BDSM, is that going to be outlawed next? that we cant have master and sub relationships? Taking away a womans right to engage in this behavior or religion is wrong since they choose this lifestyle, this is the equivalent of making laws against people simply because they choose to be gay. Personally I would prefer the government stay out of my bedroom and out of my religion.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by tigpoppa]

reply to post by tigpoppa


You have every right NOT to live in Belgium or any other country that necessarily bans the oversized suited burqa that allows a person to be fully hidden inside within public space.

Ku Klax Khans with their bedsheet coeralls from head to toe are already banned. But your religion, freely practiced within the confines of your home or bed, had not been banned in any country. Only the burqa while in public space.

The airports are opened 24 hours a day.

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime


It is expected that the entire Belgian Parliament will support the proposal in a vote this April. Belgium would then become the first European country with a complete ban on burqas and niqabs.

The law which they want to pass will be based on the fact that it is not possible to identify people who wear clothes that cover almost the entire body and face....

What a victory.......???

Because we are having a problem with mainly the male section of the Muslim society in Europe, we decide the best way to deal with this problem is to outlaw their women's clothing.

Who here thinks that Muslim women will benefit from this? Not a Muslim-man will allow his wife on the street without proper clothing. So it is back into social isolation for these women..

Are we actually trying to solve or create problems here???

I am leaving this stupid continent. Are the Inuit taking up refugees nowadays??

Peace


www.euronews.net
(visit the link for the full news article)

Maybe you have already forgotten who staged the attacks in Moscow this week? Two of those radical bitches..In Bangladesh the Burqa is also banned from hospitals because of theft, rightly so, people can not be id-ed.. good job for my southern neighbours! Set an example! And if men force their women into a "house arrest", they should be arrested themselves or get a fine, or even better, deported..

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by Foppezao
Maybe you have already forgotten who staged the attacks in Moscow this week? Two of those radical bitches..In Bangladesh the Burqa is also banned from hospitals because of theft, rightly so, people can not be id-ed.. good job for my southern neighbours! Set an example! And if men force their women into a "house arrest", they should be arrested themselves or get a fine...

You really think that a ban on the burqa is going to help those women who have to wear them??

You really think that, in Saudi Arabia, they are gonna go like "whow, these Belgian guys mean business. Maybe we should treat our women better?"

It might solve our problem but we are creating a whole bunch of new ones for a group of people who are already oppressed. Somehow that doesn't seem right.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


What Saudi Arabia does, or any other Muslim state chooses to do, so long as it does not affect the rest of humanity, is their choice and their people's choice.

So is SECULAR administrated Belgium's choice.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
belgium is one of the more radical european countries on par with France. This is yet another example of their religious intolerance.

Can you explain why muslim countries such as Tunisia and Turkey have also banned it?

reply to post by karl 12


My guess is they did it for the same reason as Belgium is doing it.

Does that make it right??

Peace

[edit on 31-3-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Belgium moves to ban the burqa, not Islam. So whats the fuss with the communities of women who do not wear these head/body coverings? This is only going to affect the 'minority' who are head to toe covered, perhaps the more fundamental Islamic comunities, is this such a bad thing?