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Belgium moves to ban the burqa

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posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by operation mindcrime
My instinct tells me we should help these women in a better way then what we came up now...I'm done.

Peace


How could you possibly determine if one is acting out of free will or out of compulsion? In the latter case, the woman is not likely to make a honest confession about it. More interestingly, what do you suggest to do in order to help or free these women?

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Mdv2]




posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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Hey Mdv2 ,


How could you possibly determine if one is acting out of free will or out of compulsion? In the latter case, the woman is not likely to make a honest confession about it.


Did you look at the video Nammu posted? I mean, seriously, how can anybody ignore the oppression these women are subject to. Even those that claim to wear them out of free will, that is merely a strange version of the Stockholm syndrome.

If it is of such importance that your God demands that you cover up every part of your body, why then does this only go for the women and not the men? Why don't we see the same men that demand their women to walk around like this, not wearing a burqa them selfs??


More interestingly, what do you suggest to do in order to help or free these women?


Educate them!!!. If you really want to solve this problem. At least now we still have the opportunity to reach these women because they can still get outside. Involve them into the community. Show them that they are individuals that matter and that they have an equally important opinion.

I know it is a slow process but eventually it will work. Only a century ago women in our society weren't even allowed to vote. They managed to free them selfs so why can't those women??

Peace



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:21 AM
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Sorry but Belgium is not an Islamic theocracy and immigrants living there will have to respect the rules of that country. Do you hear about the Saudi Arabian government allowing non-Muslim women the right to walk around in a low-cut top and short skirt? Different culture, different laws, different expectations. If you want your wife to continue wearing a burqa, then don't move to a secular country where the majority do not!

[edit on 1/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Absolutely 100% correct!!!

but....

I do not think the people having to wear this garment are the people deciding where to live. Know what i mean..??

Peace



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
It is CHILD ABUSE, for my children to see women dressed in a shroud, this is ABUSE of women, and its abuse of my children to see this ugly repression modelled in front of their eyes.

You really have a warped definiton of what child abuse is.

These adult women, living in a relatively 'free' country, choose to wear their burqas.

Tough luck if you don't like it.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 





I mean, seriously, how can anybody ignore the oppression these women are subject to.


Dictating to a population how they cannot dress is no less oppressive than dictating to your wife or congregation how they must dress.

We are asking fro trouble should we agree to this nonsense, have we not observed that those who insist that our faces be exposed at all times are steadily covering theirs ?





posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Sorry but Belgium is not an Islamic theocracy and immigrants living there will have to respect the rules of that country. Do you hear about the Saudi Arabian government allowing non-Muslim women the right to walk around in a low-cut top and short skirt? Different culture, different laws, different expectations. If you want your wife to continue wearing a burqa, then don't move to a secular country where the majority do not!

[edit on 1/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]


Yeah, but we in the west spend our time complaining that Saudi Arabia has oppressive laws like that. Why would we want to copy them?

We are supposed to be free countries, remember? Saudi Arabia is not. Why would we want to copy their oppressive laws?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 07:12 AM
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I dont think it would be a problem

If you live in a country where you have certain laws then you must follow them.

Me and my ex GF went to Abu Dhabi once on the way to Thailand and we obeyed they laws and she covered up in certain areas when she had too.

Same goes for others when they come to a culture where its not acceptable to walk around like that in public places, especially with security the way it is. Anyway its oppresive towards women as the men can wear whatever they like. Wearing a veil is a symbol of oppression. They say its a choice but it aint.

they could always go back to a country where it is acceptable, nothings stopping them doing that

Anyway nowhere in the Koran does it say you must cover your whole body and face, only dress modestly.

The Full face veil is not an Islamic thing its more of a Middle Eastern Cultre garment thats forced upon women by men and their families, who interperit it as islamic as their ancestors have done so or are told by an Iman, who maybe quite extreme. And as women who wear them are Muslims then the garment has been associated with Muslims over the past centurys so now it has its place as a "Muslim must" when in fact its nothing to do with it at all.

Most Muslims women are in denial about it as well as most of them state "its their choice" but thats just a smokescreen as they know its NOT their choice, its her husbands or families and if she refused to wear it then she knows her husband/family will not be happy at all and most probably not let her out the house, disown her or even at the worst,it may result in an honour killing. So dont kid yourself ladies it is not your choice !

I have had a discussion before with a Musllim lady who stated it was her choice, and when i asked her "ok it is, and what if you decide NOT to wear it, what would your husband/family say then?" and she wouldnt answer me...

So there is no win solution with this one as we have
a situation where the garment is being forced upon women who have no choice in whether they want to wear it and then we have a another situation where the law is saying you cant wear it full stop

so either way the freedom to choose is being taken away
[edit on 1/4/10 by Smiler74]

[edit on 1/4/10 by Smiler74]

[edit on 1/4/10 by Smiler74]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Noromyxo
 


If you don't want to be seen as racist perhaps you shouldn't refer to Arabs as "barbarian curs".

Another issue here, I think it funny ATS members only seem to stand behind free religion when it's a religion they practice. What's next? Are Americans going to start screeching at Amish people and make them dress the way they want to?

[edit on 1-4-2010 by antonia]

[edit on 1-4-2010 by antonia]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by Noromyxo
 


If you don't want to be seen as racist perhaps you shouldn't refer to Arabs as "barbarian curs".

Don't really care if I am seen as a racist. If you speak the truth, you will be labeled as a racist anyway. However, I did misspeak. What I really meant was Islamic curs. As all muslims are not arabic, and not all arabs are muslims. Race does not play into this as much as ideology.
They don't disgust me on basis of their race, but rather their stupid, medieval ways. Thanks for correcting me.
There are lot of stupid people in my race as well.
[edit on 1-4-2010 by antonia]

[edit on 1-4-2010 by antonia]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by Noromyxo
 


Islamophobia, even better
, Glad to ATS members behind that too.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:44 AM
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The ban of the burqa is a good thing imo, I have no idea where this tradition came from but it does not fit in a western democratic community where everyone is equal.

These woman are supressed, and the burqa is a symbol of that supression. We are a free society with evolved people if someone finds it neccesairy to clothe his wife with this textile prison than that is wrong and we should so something about it.

If they don't like our policy's they can go to Soadi Arabia and do what they so wish. We have diffrent standards.

Anyone dumb enough to protect the burqa is countering evolution.

If you think about a utopian society, do you think about supressed woman who hide under this robe? no.

Now stop making a fuss about this, because you are blowing this out of proportion, and your reaction is proof of your ignorance.


And please don't think that anyone with these views is an islamophobe and/or politicly incorrect. You like to put tags on everything these days, Islam has done more harm then good, and im not saying it isn't a peacefull religion but one needs simply to look at the state of affairs to see the impact.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by colloredbrothers]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 





What's next? Are Americans going to start screeching at Amish people and make them dress the way they want to?


Apart for the invisible man in the sky element I find the Amish way of life perhaps the most appealing of the christian types. It's interesting that they don't offer their way of life to anyone else or try to save us from the hell of deciding on which white goods to buy.

If the Amish did happen to wear hoodies or such garments would there be an equal amount of zeal to prevent them from doing so ?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by colloredbrothers
 





The ban of the burqa is a good thing imo, I have no idea where this tradition came from but it does not fit in a western democratic community where everyone is equal.



I was unaware that the western democratic community (whatever the hell that is) had a dress code .






posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by piedsniper
 


I doubt it, they are Christians. Christians aren't subject to the same type of prejudice in the western world. The women do wear bonnets and such outside the home though. This is just the fear card, scapegoating one class of people. Ironically enough, Europe is going to be dependent on labor from this class of people soon enough as Europeans aren't having kids.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by antonia]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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Islamaphobia ?

sorry dont know what that is, but I am afraid of beards so does that mean I have a "Beardaphobia"?

saying people have phobias is a poor attempt, just cos they disagree with a religions teachings doesnt mean they are "afraid" of them

also calling them a racist is a poor effort, but what people tend to forget is that Islam is not a race or skin colour, its a religious cult

if someone doesnt agree with something then it doesnt make them phobic or racist



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Smiler74
 


Referring to a whole class of people as "Barbarian Curs" is pretty egregious and shows how little one knows about that class of people. It's disgusting, to even sit there and support it is ignorant. I am not Islamic, I don't agree with what they do but, I don't belittle them. Big difference.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by colloredbrothers
 



There are so many contradictions in your post i am not sure where to start!

We are a free society, so we must control what people wear?


Saudi Arabia is not a free society so we should be like them and control what people wear, but we (apparently) have different standards?


Demanding somewhere wear an item of clothing is bad, so we should demand that they don't wear it, because that is better somehow?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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Belgium have every right to do this...

Fair play to them and France... Now if only the Uk would too.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Smiler74
Islamaphobia ?

sorry dont know what that is, but I am afraid of beards so does that mean I have a "Beardaphobia"?




Nope.... that would be pogonophobia

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