why i think time travel is impossible

reply to post by MAC269




Because the Boffins you read are wrong.

Time does not move at different rates for the astronaut than the observer, it moves at a RELATIVE rate.
Does the earth slow down for the observer, or speed up for the astronaut..?? no, it does not. It remains constant. So what is changing?

The Observer notices no change in time, neither does the astronaut. Only when they compare clocks do they find a tiny fraction of a difference, from the observers clock to the clock of the astronaut. But nobody " travelled in time", they merely experienced time at relative rates WHEN COMPARED.

The astronaut does not arrive to earth any sooner in time than the observer, they simply have experienced a slower RATE of time when compared to the observers clock, and ONLY when compared to the observers clock. otherwise the astronaut feels no difference.

There is no practical or actual Time travel when astronauts do their thing, it is a widely accepted Myth that creates magic in articles they write and reads well, but the Boffins you go by are incorrect

reply to post by Indigenous equity


Dear Indigenous equity

So Einstein is also wrong then. He even states that time is not constant in the universe.

Originally posted by Indigenous equity



Wormholes are travelling through space, not time. If they bend space and provide a shortcut its through linear space, but not through time itself. Time will pass slower for someone travelling through them, but they do not violate the tenants of time; you cannot travel backwards or forwards, but only at slower relative rate to those observing

There are certain rules in the Universe, one of them is the motion of celestial objects. They will not stop and or rotate in reverse to allow for time travel.

I don't understand how this is true because right now we are witnessing celestial bodies rotating and living and such but if we travel via wormhole technology then we pass through all of that. We witness it by looking up at the stars. traveling through a wormhole, is opening up a wormhole. Is it not? Why could you not time travel with a wormhole? Do we already know the physics of the inner of a wormhole?

My point being is I've recently decided that it is very likely that the occupants of ufos can be extra terrestrials and humans from the future.

Is it not said that we are 100 years off from this technology?

here i drew an illustration on how i think wormhole travel works
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f95a5960e46.png[/atsimg]
the blue dot is us
lets say the zetans (red dot) send us a message to come visit them and check outthe empire
how do we get there? the zetans are so far away it would take several lifetimes to reach them

lets say the zetans are masters of space tech and some how open a wormhole(purple) from them to us and vice versa

as you can see in the illustration the universe is folded
i cant remember why but i have my own ideas
just as the earth is round so is the universe as you travel the earth you still have the impression that it is flat because of how big it is compared to you
same with the universe

well anyway since space is folded like so you can get to the zetan empire quickly

take a piece of paper put a penny on one edge fold the paper and move the penny to the other edge slowly
if you had gone the same speed while moving tahe penny across the flat paper it would have taken a longer time

and for some reason time goes slower for someon going faster so as we traverse the wormhole we age slower

something like that

reply to post by ashanu90


i need to draw my pics smaller but i dont think anything important was cut off

Final Fantasy VIII plays on this as the major plot point is that everything is an endless cycle and anything we would try to do to change it is only part of the viciousness it employs.

"I don't understand how this is true because right now we are witnessing celestial bodies rotating and living and such but if we travel via wormhole technology then we pass through all of that. We witness it by looking up at the stars. traveling through a wormhole, is opening up a wormhole. Is it not? Why could you not time travel with a wormhole? Do we already know the physics of the inner of a wormhole?

My point being is I've recently decided that it is very likely that the occupants of ufos can be extra terrestrials and humans from the future"




We are assuming that wormholes exist in a manner allowing travel through them, but even so we would still be passing through SPACE, not TIME. We take a shortcut through linear space, but we cannot shortcut through Time. We will arrive at a relative time difference to the observer, but we will not travel through time itself. In other words we cannot arrive at a time before we left, and we cannot arrive at the observers future. It will simply be relative to the speed we are travelling, compared to the observer and our own clocks.


Shortcutting through time would require the Universe to stand on its head and that simply wont occur.

Originally posted by Indigenous equity

We are assuming that wormholes exist in a manner allowing travel through them, but even so we would still be passing through SPACE, not TIME. We will arrive at a relative time difference to the observer,

Therefore we will be able to travel in time and return to Earth in the past if we do so please.

We are not affected by time but we will be at a relative point to the observer, therefore we can manipulate time by space travel if we decide to return via wormhole but would we return back to Earth relative to the current age of Earth relative to the Universe? Or could we return to Earth through a different wormhole, or fold in the paper so to speak to arrive at a specified time back to Earth?

reply to post by game over man




You forgot to leave in the part about not travelling through time itself.

Time travel is not possible because time does not exist in a vacuum, it is the measurement of motion in the Universe. Until the Universe stops in its tracks, Time will continue to its inexorable march to infinity.

There seems to be a tendency to treat time as a physical object that can be manipulated, It cannot. Nothing humanity can do will alter time, it can only change its RELATIVE measurement against the observe, but never change or manipulate time itself.
You cannot arrive at a location before you left it, you cannot arrive in the future ahead of yourself...these are wonderful exercises in reasoning and rationale, but they are not actually possible.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
It's not only possible, but has been done, is being done and will be done.
Past, present and future all exist at the same time, as time is not linear.
There are those who know this, and are able to manipulate and "jump" from one time to another.
We are not just observing a time shift now, or even waiting for one to occur again...
Timelines have been altered over and over..by those who wish to oppress and rule.

"proof is in the pudding" as they say....SO...
where is your pudding? aka evidence? you know how it works...u make a claim, you provide evidence, we look at evidence, we debate over it, we debunk it, or we accept it...simple method really.
dont wanna attack you or anything..i would just like to see some fact and info backing up the claim.

Originally posted by Indigenous equity
reply to post by game over man

 

You forgot to leave in the part about not travelling through time itself.

Indeed no natural object can travel through time because time is not a physical concept, it is an abstract concept. Physical objects within our known universe exist ONLY in 3 dimensions; length, width and height combined!

Originally posted by Indigenous equity
Time travel is not possible because time does not exist in a vacuum, it is the measurement of motion in the Universe. Until the Universe stops in its tracks, Time will continue to its inexorable march to infinity.

Is there such a thing as perfect vacuum? Probably not which means vacuum is also an abstract concept. Since vacuums do not physically exist within our known universe, that also means time will remain constant wherever you are.

Originally posted by Indigenous equity
There seems to be a tendency to treat time as a physical object that can be manipulated, It cannot. Nothing humanity can do will alter time, it can only change its RELATIVE measurement against the observe, but never change or manipulate time itself.

You cannot arrive at a location before you left it, you cannot arrive in the future ahead of yourself...these are wonderful exercises in reasoning and rationale, but they are not actually possible.

Indeed I agree 100%!

If someone goes back in time, why does the universe then evolve around them?

My twin goes back in time, I am still here in 2010, do I not exist because he went to a different place and time? I think it's an illusion only observable by the traveler. If he were to go back and kill his grandfather, it wouldn't matter, he already exists to kill his grandfather. His grandfather is dead, dad can't be born, which in turns means no twin, BUT he WAS there to kill his grandfather, so in reality he existed and still does. Alive and dead at the same time; reminds Schrodinger's cat whatever they call it.

Also I have heard you can go to the past but not the future....how would that be possible? If I were to travel to 1960, wouldn't the people in 1960 think I was from the future? To them, the future doesn't exist yet, so in my opinion, you can do one, you can do the other.

The only way it can be perceivable is if it creates an alternate reality. I can't go back and kill myself when I was 13 when I am now 23, that doesn't work. If it was the case, then I wouldn't be alive at 23 the travel backwards. It may create an alternate reality where I cease to exist, other than that it's hogwash to think stepping on a butterfly could destroy the future.

Originally posted by Indigenous equity

You forgot to leave in the part about not travelling through time itself.

Time travel is not possible because time does not exist in a vacuum, it is the measurement of motion in the Universe. Until the Universe stops in its tracks, Time will continue to its inexorable march to infinity.

You never explained to me that traveling via wormhole can bypass time and the constant turning of the Universe. That is what I'm saying. You open up a wormhole and get to point a to point b in no time at all, whereas if you traveled with conventional space travel you end up at point b in millions if not billions of years.

moving forward in time is a proven phenomenon.

I agree about travelling back though, I can't really see how it is possible.

reply to post by game over man


"You never explained to me that traveling via wormhole can bypass time and the constant turning of the Universe. That is what I'm saying. You open up a wormhole and get to point a to point b in no time at all, whereas if you traveled with conventional space travel you end up at point b in millions if not billions of years"


You answered your own question; you are using spatial references ( point A to Point B) to describe your travels through space.
When you get to the part regarding time, you dont get change back from your shortcut through space, you are still travelling in real time. It just didnt take as long.

for example, i fly in a jet to NY from San Francisco.

You drive in a Car to NY From San Francisco.


I will arrive much sooner than you will, but neither of us traveled through time, we used different ( efficiency ) modes of transportation, that is all.
The wormhole is the same, you are only taking a more efficient form of transportation than someone not taking the wormhole. But nobody is travelling through time, only taking a shortcut through space.


[edit on 30-3-2010 by Indigenous equity]

Hi Ashanu90,

reply to post by ashanu90

i think time travel is impossible.

"Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." Albert Einstein


Best Wishes!

reply to post by Indigenous equity


Whoa whoa actually with you car airplane analogy the airplane got to NY at a earlier time than the car, hence was in NY in the past compared to the car.

Thus it would be great to have some technology that could get you quick enough to a distance in the past. When you talk about vast distances in space, where we visually see 13.75 billion years, I'd say you can travel faster than light, you can time travel.

Also, say in 1000 years humans are able to develop time travel. Since at that point they have all of history mapped out, where humans have gone to, couldn't you pick a destination to time travel to that no human has ever been to? Thus remain covert and undiscovered?

This is all based upon the fact that humans remain progressing with technology like we have in the last 150 years. And we remain in existence for another 1000 years.

Therefore time travel is possible and might theoretically exist currently, and even before the beginning of man.

reply to post by game over man


interesting but how does the hitler paradox apply to that?
or are you just talking about traveling forward in time?

reply to post by game over man


"Whoa whoa actually with you car airplane analogy the airplane got to NY at a earlier time than the car, hence was in NY in the past compared to the car"


I see where the confusion is, people are equating arriving at a destination sooner than another form of transportation is the same as time travelling.

This is not accurate, otherwise you are time travelling by riding a skateboard as opposed to walking, or driving in a car as opposed to skateboarding, etc. This is not time travelling, it is efficiency of travel.


We are talking about completely different frames of reference to what time travel actually means; I take Time travel to mean you are actually able to arrive at a destination before you left it, or to leave a point in time before you arrived. You are able to actually control the timeline you are existing in

If this is not your definition of time travel, and your definition of time travel is taking the plane instead of the bus, and there is nothing further to converse about.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Indigenous equity]