Proof of God? You be the judge

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by spy66

 

Every equation that exist is a finger print of God.

No, it's a fingerprint of our fractal/holographic reality...God doesn't have fingerprints...

Prove it.

Everything that is a finite is a finger print of God. Because its not infinite.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

prove it.

excellent video ... provocative. thanks for posting. evidence of god = ø

Originally posted by m0r1arty

Originally posted by spy66
Every equation that exist is a finger print of God. We just dont know the correct sequence. Because we cant observe the beginning from present time.

I think Space summed it up rather nicely:

-m0r

I am not sure what you mean by this.

A equation can tell the future. The theory of expansion and compression proves that. But to be able to predict it mathematically you would have to have the original equation. From when infinite created finite.

But we will never be able to get it since we cant measure expansion from present time to infinity.

We try to find the beginning by studying light. But light is emitted energy (expansion) from compressed energy.

We have to figure out what caused the compression before we can figure out the expansion of time.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by Hadrian

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by spy66

 

Every equation that exist is a finger print of God.

No, it's a fingerprint of our fractal/holographic reality...God doesn't have fingerprints...

Prove it.

Everything that is a finite is a finger print of God. Because its not infinite.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

prove it.

Ok.

Finite is infinity compressed. Time is the "expansion" of finite trying to become what it used to be. "Infinite"

That is a fingerprint.

The fingerprint is the difference between finite and infinite. And we create equations from observing the changes to a finite.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

i think the only thing this proves is that there is a sequence to the apparent random and chaotic nature of reality. to say that this proves the existence of god you first need to establish what you mean by god and that is an entirely different thread. its certainly strange that so many biological forms seem to possess these qualities. order in chaos? maybe? the fingerprint of god? who knows? will we as human ever truly ever understand anything? absolutely not!!!!

dude Proof of God is everywhere u just goto know what your looking for.

I can't fathom how this could be an accident of nature.

I can't imagine how it can be anything other than Intelligent Design.

Such perfect structure, beauty, and 'rightness'?

Intelligent design in my opinion - Yep. God.

peace

reply to post by bulletproof_monk


Complexity is NOT evidence of a creator. Mathematical complexity does not mean there is a god.

We can't just assume that because something is unlikely or improbable that it has a supernatural origin, after all complexity is subjective.

Every time we have studied something believed to be supernatural we have found a natural explanation for it and for some reason religious zealots think that without a divine plan or creator all the beauty is gone out of the Universe. I think that the fact this Universe could come about without an invisible sky man makes it far more miraculous and beautiful.

Think about that for a moment, think about how incredible it would be for this Universe to have brought forth our intelligence without magic, by natural processes, I think its a far preferable explanation to magical creation.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by bulletproof_monk

 

Think about that for a moment, think about how incredible it would be for this Universe to have brought forth our intelligence without magic, by natural processes, I think its a far preferable explanation to magical creation.

I believe the exact opposite: I do see magic. I see proof of a Creator in everything I look at. But it didn’t start like that.

The view of the world I had up until very recently was VERY pragmatic, supported by pure science and evidence. I grew up not just believing but knowing that everything had a rational explanation, and if there was no rational scientific foundation for anything I found unexplainable, we just hadn’t yet discovered the proper scientific tools to explore it reasonably and gain refutable evidence. That all changed in the twinkling of an eye. One day, very close to the time I started to explore physics and mathematics, I saw the connection.

It changed me. My entire life paradigm changed and fell into place. I don’t see random, meaningless unexplainable events. I see connection. Everywhere. I see grand architecture. I see beauty and purpose, where there is no apparent justification for it. This extends from nature and humanity, to the geo-political to the astronomical. I see magic. But you can’t tell it, or force it on anyone. You have to see it and know it yourself. For me, it was the “Eureka” moment.

I don’t see it as faith, I see it as trust. I see it in math and science. I see it in nature. I see magic. And it is beautiful.

This is why I have recently come to ATS. To share and learn. I believe math and science IS proof of something much more, but I realize not everyone shares this view. I’m all eyes and ears. I’m open to listen and explore anything new because I understand the hardest thing to do is change your mind and heart once it’s set; I know because I’ve experienced it myself.

I am enjoying looking at both sides of the argument. I personally think this is not enough evidence to prove that God exists, but I am one of those people that needs to see something to believe it, as im sure a lot of people on ats are. I guess there are some people who will never fully believe in God because they are waiting for Him/herself to show itself to them. Believing in God does require faith, and for those who are really into science, as I am, have become accustomed to being able to explain everything rationally. The more I grow, the more I have realized that there is more to this world than what we experience through our senses. I will not say that God exists nor will I say that he doesn't. I truly know very little about this universe and i am not going to be arrogant and say that God does or does not exist as if it is a fact.
Is it possible that there is a God? Of course. There is also a possibility that there is no God, but we don't know enough about this place that we live in to come up with a certain answer.

reply to post by Auntie Matter


Yes but the idea that it was all magically conjured by an invisible man only cheapens the profound beauty. If anything a Universe that came into being without a God is more a miracle than one any God could ever hope to perform. Think about that, think about it in the sense that the Universe was more or less a virgin birth, except the Big Bang didn't create one man, but EVERYTHING.

I'll admit that this is a complex mathematically definable Universe in which all is connected but I do not see the need for a creator, at least not one in the traditional sense. If there is a higher consciousness it likely bears almost no resemblance at all to our petty ideas of God.

in my opinion, the problem is not the GOD fact itself, the problem is that people think they need to believe that a GOD like in a bible or other religious book exists ...

that doesnt make any sense ... if some GOD exists, witch I believe it does, we dont have any idea what this GOD is, how it is ... and I am sure this GOD really dont care about us, it cares about the whole system that could be much bigger than universes ...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Ironically, TS, I have thought about it. Quite deeply. It’s not about my or anyone’s “need” for a Creator, I found my own evidence of it. I think my ideas are far from petty. It is very profound to me personally. I used to share your firmly-planted mind-set, but I changed my opinion and, indeed, paradigm only AFTER careful thought and consideration. Perhaps you should take your own advice and truly think about it. Think about how the beauty of creation is, to use your words, cheapened by ignoring the magnificence of the architecture right in front of you and the sublime balance in all things. I see a grand cycle of renewal, expansion and contraction, and science confirmed my beliefs to me and me alone.

It's about balance. Case in point, this conversation. For example, I have no interest in shaking my proverbial fists on a street corner shrieking at the top of my voice opinions and judgments one would spend a lifetime opposing and deflecting at the top of theirs just for the sake of it. I enjoy and savour the differences in opinions, and I thank you for responding to me. To each his own.

@ Faoil: astute observation. Personally, I didn’t come to discover the Creator through any man-made distorted text or fear-inspiring dogma. I discovered it through personal revelation and it is supported by the evidence of the sciences to me. I would suggest that the small is every bit as important as the BIG. My position is that we are all part of the same whole. For example, take “big bang” as Titen-Sxull alluded to. It all matters; it is all important. We matter.

Peace.

First editt didn't work ??

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Auntie Matter]

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Auntie Matter]

Hey i am Earblipper,

Nice video, it is definitely interesting, but i cannot say that it proves the existence of God. it may be a law that nature follows perhaps. Anyway, nice thread, peace

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we perceive that the system of things were put in order by Gods word so that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not appear

Proof is to Concrete as Faith is to Abstract.
Evidence is to Proof as Belief is to Faith.
Concrete is to Abstract as Evidence is to Belief

Define God

Originally posted by Earblipper
Hey i am Earblipper,

Nice video, it is definitely interesting, but i cannot say that it proves the existence of God. it may be a law that nature follows perhaps. Anyway, nice thread, peace

If it is indeed a law that nature follows where did nature get her laws from? and then run that line of questioning all the way to the end if your can.

I sometimes wonder if God created the Universe or if the Universe created God. And if the Universe did create God; maybe he created us just to bring us down with him? Like, he knows he has no control over the Universe; so he's basically insane and afraid of the end of the Universe. So, I think, he could have possibly created Man and other creatures so we suffer the same demise as him when the Universe basically comes to an end and all the " lights " go out. Maybe it gives him " peace of mind " or something? lol.

I dunno. I have a lot of freetime on my hands and like to think about stuff like this. you know, you know.

reply to post by CHA0S

...God doesn't have fingerprints...

How is it you know so much about God?
He doesn't have finger prints? You say this as if you are some authority.
I suppose if God exists he wouldn't try to communicate with us or anything like that either?
Have you checked my
thread out.

Thank you very much Bullet.
Glass shops get their plate glass deliversd in this "perfect rectangle"
So no matter what the sizes are you need to cut. You always end up with the least amount of waste possible using some simple math. Very cool
vid.
If someone can say evidence of design dosn't mean there was a designer.
Then why debate anything with that person. I think that pretty much makes you bias. In all civilization I have never seen a design, that had no
Designer.

Define God

Define God! I would start with INDESTUCTABLE and end with MERCIFUL.
But I am just a man.

08

"Eh.... don't be to sold on that, it's probably there because a giant invisible pissed of war mongering, incest and slave inspiring being put it there!"

If Gods pissed off who can blame him.
I would be to if you were cram'in threads full of this kind of rederick about me.


I wonder why Asshnu dosn't post to this thread?

[edit on 2-4-2010 by randyvs]

If you take the behaviour of matter and energy and the way they adhere to the fundamental forces of nature (primarily electro-magnetism or - I suppose electro-weak force) they simply do not allow for the formation of conciousness now matter how long you wait. The first cell of life (which is made up of this 'bricks and mortar') somehow acquired an ability to absorb other molecules and reproduce, essentially copying itself. Fundamental forces don't behave in this fashion.

I can't see how any revelation within the subject of Physics could possibly produce a new 'law' that from our current viewpoint, we wouldn't describe as 'magic' or 'miraculous'.

God is real and at least some scientists know this. Richard Dawkins and his whooping gang of bullies can produce as much false evidence as he wants. He's done.

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
If you take the behaviour of matter and energy and the way they adhere to the fundamental forces of nature (primarily electro-magnetism or - I suppose electro-weak force) they simply do not allow for the formation of conciousness now matter how long you wait.

Why not?

The first cell of life (which is made up of this 'bricks and mortar') somehow acquired an ability to absorb other molecules and reproduce, essentially copying itself. Fundamental forces don't behave in this fashion.

Yes, they do. In fact, we do it all the time, when we eat. Why do you think that natural laws cannot answer this?