Why Blacks embrace their opressors God

reply to post by Exposing The Devil


I am trying to decide if I should even post a reply to such a statement as that.

Let's try a question first.

Do you believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ?

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by Exv8densez

 

I'm so done with this whole circus act

My ORIGINAL question was why do african americans embrace the religion of the ones that forced us in to slavery.

Plain and simple

I never stated what color Jesus or anybody was..never stated that we should hate white people, never stated that I myself am oppressed...

This thread was doomed from the get-go, because of the title, I guess.

I had no intentions to be discussing racicm at all, so how did we get here?

I reponded with disbelief and continued on with a very brief history of the Abolitionists.

Why do African Americans follow Christianity? Because the Abolitionists were Christian and that had a huge impact in the aftermath of the US civil war.

The article could have also been named "why African Americans embrace their liberator's god."

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by elevatedone

who's first ?


CUT IT OUT !!!!!!!!!

I am saddened that among adults, a Super Mod has to actually be forceful. ATS members, we are here to Deny Ignorance. Racism and race baiting is the epitome of Ignorance.

To the OP, do you have any questions about why there may be issues with race in our country? Do you see the pervasive, smothering ignorance that can come out of the woodworks of minds that are otherwise considered intelligent?

Maybe this thread should just be deleted? The wording of the thread title is going to be a lightning rod.

Maybe this thread should be deleted????

Maybe that was the intention by the disruptors

To answer your other question, I was never discussing racism so I have no idea what you are talking about.

I was discussing african-americans that choose to (out of all religions) embrace Christianity

reply to post by ButterCookie


mod,

please don't close this thread. i don't want the op to go away feeling even more ostracized. issues like this are delicate and should be discussed

reply to post by ButterCookie



I haven't read the replies, so I am just going to say,

I have wondered the same thing myself,

Having said that, you realize Christians were instrumental in the cause of freeing black slaves and running underground railroads

I was born and raised in the Free Methodist church,

Imagine how I feel everytime a forum member calls me a racist.

The Free Methodist Church is a denomination of Methodism, which is a branch of Protestantism. It was founded in 1860 in New York's Burned-over district by a group, led by B. T. Roberts, who was defrocked in the Methodist Episcopal Church for criticisms of the spiritual laxness of the church hierarchy. The Free Methodists are so named because they believed it was improper to charge for better seats in pews closer to the pulpit.

They also opposed slavery and supported freedom for all slaves in the United States, while many Methodists in the South at that time did not actively oppose slavery. Beyond that, they advocated "freedom" from secret societies, which had allegedly undermined parts of the Methodist Episcopal Church.

At first the church consisted of many former Methodist Episcopal people who had been actively involved in the Underground Railroad just prior to the American Civil War, which had sought to aid escaped slaves gain safety and freedom in Canada. Some of the stations are still centers of Free Methodist activity today, such as North Chili, New York , site of present-day Roberts Wesleyan College, a Free Methodist school named after the founder. From there fugitive slaves were taken to Lake OntarioWolcott, New York Lake Ontario bounded on the north by Ontario and on the south by Ontario's Niagara Peninsula and by New York State, is one of the five Great Lakes of North America. The name of the lake is an Iroquois word meaning either "beautiful lake" and boated across to Canada. Another Underground Railroad site was Pekin, New York , near the Niagara RiverThe Niagara River flows to the north from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario.

It serves as the border between the Province of Ontario in Canada and New York State in the United States. The river is about 56 kilometres (35 miles) long and includes Niagara Falls alo, where slaves also crossed.

This tiny town was the site of a Holiness

The holiness movement is composed of people who believe and propagate the belief that the carnal nature/ original sin of the human can be cleansed through faith in the Holy Spirit. This assuming that the person has already had their sins forgiven through camp meetingCamp meetings were a phenomenon of American frontier Christianity. The movement of thousands of persons to what had previously been trackless wilderness in the eighteenth century in America had led to something of a religious vacuum. Not only were there f, as well, and the site of the organizational conference of the church in 1860. The denomination also has numerous churches in the MidwestMidwest States United States of America, ND to OH The Midwest is a common name for a region of the United States of America. The term originated in the 19th century, along with 'Middle West' and 'Heartland', and referred to generally the same areas and st, some of the oldest ones also being in communities that were abolitionist

This article is about the abolition of slavery. For a page on the general concept of abolition, see abolition. For information regarding the abolition of suffering, see abolitionist society. Great Britain and the United States. Abolitionism a political mo centers and Underground Railroad stops along the southern shore of Lake MichiganLake Michigan is one of the five North American Great Lakes. It is bounded, in clockwise order from the south, by the US states of Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Michigan, which is named for it. Lake Michigan is the only one of the Great Lakes wholly w.

www.economicexpert.com...:Methodist:Church.html

The church I attended for my first eighteen years still stands in the heart of the ghetto.





[edit on 043131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Conclusion

I am trying to decide if I should even post a reply to such a statement as that.

Let's try a question first.

Do you believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ?

I believe in Christ, the one of the Bible, not the Catholic white pagan version of Christ.

I hope your not trying to get into a scripture battle with me because I know the scriptures very well.

I think one of the reasons in regards to the op is that people
often have more success in their endeavors when they look to something that is bigger than themselves. an example is the 12 step programs like alcoholics anonymous, which states that WHATEVER keeps you from having another drink of booze, is your higher power. it can be a box of cigars, it can be yeshua, it can be music, whatever keeps you from taking another drink. so in essence, even without any other cause, people recognize the need for something BIGGER than they are, when attempting to achieve something that seems bigger than they are, like addictions, poverty, death, and so on.

[edit on 10-3-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


Thanks,

Its all good and they can shut it down..

That was the originall intention i'm seeing.....I made my point and I saw my point...

I'm done with this whole thread...I see that you there are certain topics that are not 'allowed' on ATS....

Wow

Yeah it doesn't matter to me if they delete the thread. Your not trying to answer my questions anyway.

Peace.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by undo

 

Thanks,

Its all good and they can shut it down..

That was the originall intention i'm seeing.....I made my point and I saw my point...

I'm done with this whole thread...I see that you there are certain topics that are not 'allowed' on ATS....

Wow

You have to be open to the points of others. What is the point of starting a thread for debate on an internet forum if your only going to "make your point and see your point"?

If thats your point, ATS is not the place for that.

Maas Salama

Originally posted by Exposing The Devil
They also used white Jesus, A.K.A Cesare Borgia to kill and slave our brothers, the Natives who are Israelites like us Black slaves.

What is this "us black slaves"? Are you a slave? Were you a slave?

Didn't think so.

Get over it. Move on. Make something out of your life and quit blaming the ghosts of our great grandfathers.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I think the original question of the OP can only be answered by Black Americans themselves.

I dont know the percentage of Black Americans that are athiest and what thier relationship with their respective communities is, not much different that that of White athiests I would presume, its not a picnic for them either.

I think that for the Black American cummunity The church in whatever form became a refuge and shelter from the injustices that were taking place and it was a place of hope and promise of freedom, everyone being equal in Gods eyes. Also I believe government/corporate policies on drugs, crime, employment and whatnot have done much to destroy what was a very strong Black American family unit pre 1960, and now the church is the strongest Black Community unit that is left. Those same government corporate policies are now in the process of doing to middle class and lower class whites the same destruction they have visited on the Black community.

In some ways the question could also be asked of Whites whos ancestors converted to Christianity via the sword or coerced economically. Big Religions such as the early Catholic Church when they hold power over who is allowed to be king or lord or whatever wield a very great power over the masses. Most Europeans became Catholic not because they wanted to intitailly but because the current Ceasar, Charlemagne and what other rulers enforced this as the faith thier subjects would be. Most folks in the west are Christian because that is the faith of thier parents, grandparents etc, no real thought is put into the way they became Christians in the first place.

To me the folks of any race or ethnic group that are following Christianity or Islam are doing so because either thier families were coerced into following that faith in the distant past or thier families held power by aligning themselves with the faiths in the past. I encourage people of all ethnic groups to research thier past and find out where thay came from and why they believe or not believe they way they do, I personally found the research not only enlitening but also freeing in alot of ways.

Faith and Belief in the Divine should be a wonderful and beautiful experience for all of humankind, unfortunately it to often becomes a way to oppress, repress and enslave the people.

reply to post by ButterCookie

I was discussing african-americans that choose to (out of all religions) embrace Christianity

(when I use the word you Buttercookie I don't mean you)


That was a point that seemed to have got lost some time ago, but let's not dwell on the past.

It appears to me to be the most insane thing is to venerate a book that gave clear instructions for your ancestors to be enslaved.

The insanity is further compounded by the fact that the veneration of said book was more than likely forced upon your enslaved ancestors.

More outrageous still is that you have unlimited access to information confirming that the authors of the book are anonymous and the characters within probably fictitious.

What is totally dumbfounding is that the character in the book that gave the code of instructions in relation to the enslavement of your forbears is an invisible man that lives in the sky, that just happens to be a bearded white dude.

So, if you happen to be an African American descended from slavery I cannot help but ask, are you not enslaved now but of your own volition ?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by undo

 

Thanks,

Its all good and they can shut it down..

That was the originall intention i'm seeing.....I made my point and I saw my point...

I'm done with this whole thread...I see that you there are certain topics that are not 'allowed' on ATS....

Wow

You have to be open to the points of others. What is the point of starting a thread for debate on an internet forum if your only going to "make your point and see your point"?

If thats your point, ATS is not the place for that.

Maas Salama

thats all i saw too.

i come to ats for a chance to not only speak my view, but also share in others that i dont always agree with.

i mean i had a guy telling me i was going to burn in hell while he laughed, and i told him he could have a seat right next to me.

i speak my mind and intend to not step on toes too often, but i cant sit by while someone hates as much as this and its supposed to be tolerated. what if i came in here, and started a thread but in the reverse. i would have been banned on the spot.

the blatant disregard for others just amazed me.

i still think that the church is generally seen as good to most people. what we see here on a daily basis on ats is the worst of the worst. being exposed daily to threads about how christianity itself is the devil just waiting to eat babies, or how its the "end all/be all" of all thought processes taken place in your brain.

if you take a break from here and actually visit a church, you would see a group of close knit families working together to provide for their community. some people fall off the bandwagon and think its just a bunch of self serving, righteous wanna-be hypocrites. to an extent it can be seen that way. I think it's more about feeling a sense of belonging and taking care of your own. If someone falls on hard times, the church is there for you. My friend's mom's house burned down, and their church paid to fix her house. all of the money goes back to the community or to the church.

But that is the view of the local community. the problem lies in it's overall size and structure that worries people. rightly so, the church is enormous. a vast network of power lies within its ranks and how can anyone trust every person all the time?

I for one do not know what the overall agenda of the church is. i would assume to become the only one without contest. how it is achieving these goals is obvious from historical documents. by force. are they still practicing this today? there are probably a lot of threads here to tell you.

Was there ever a truth behind the mask that is religion today? i think so. i guess that makes me a creationist to a degree. agnostic perhaps. i think the atheist has to realize that these people weren't all on drugs when they wrote this stuff down. some of them might have been actually seeing things come from the heavens (i like to call it the sky).

now was that entity an alien? i dont know, but it definitely sounds more plausible than an invisible man in the sky. Yet, if it were in fact an invisible person (we were in his image right?) not only in the sky, but everywhere, at all times, watching everything all of us ever did, then i think that would put them in the inter-dimensional being category category. i dont know how to handle that other then imagining another alien. its not from here....

i dont find anything wrong with wanting to live your life set to the basic rules in the book. they are wholesome and good. which is always the argument from the fundies: you must hate good.

obviously you don't (maybe you do who knows) so it offends you, and you guys draw your line in the sand like a bunch of apes.

of course add to injustices that have been commited and you end up stacked with a whole lot of crap and confusion with pent up angst over wanting to be right and seem like the good one. guess what. ever one is good. people in power not counting. its power's fault and people are stupid like that.

once you get your line in the sand you can create terrible attrocities against each other. i dont know if it's inherently human to be violent or not, but sometimes you really have to wonder.

the problem is when you see the label instead of the person.

i claimed racism, because i wanted a chance to discuss your topic without being called something i am not. i'm sorry if you think that it wasn't, but you caught a bunch of other people as well over it. then to demand only a certain race participate in discussion was a little more than i am comfortable with. especially from someone who should know what it's like (from the basis of this entire thread).

i did believe that there was a potential for something to take from this. i do hope that you dont think me some kind of monster as you described me as being just over my color. you tried to make that clear a lot.

ats is always open free to all. you should at least respect that.

FACES OF AMERICA WITH HENRY LOUIS GATES, JR | Interview with HENRY LOUIS GATES, JR | PBS

www.youtube.com...



www.pbs.org...

www.pbs.org...

www.pbs.org...

African American lives,

There are other names you can research,

www.pbs.org...

Tina Turner
www.pbs.org...

I found the full interviews on line once, but I can't find them now.

reply to post by Exposing The Devil

I believe in Christ, the one of the Bible, not the Catholic white pagan version of Christ.

So which one of these wonderful mangods was responsible for slavery 101 your man or the catholic white pagan mangod ?

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I think the original question of the OP can only be answered by Black Americans themselves.

I dont know the percentage of Black Americans that are athiest and what thier relationship with their respective communities is, not much different that that of White athiests I would presume, its not a picnic for them either.

i dont think so, but it definitely has to depend on experience. I wasn't raised in a black church, but i did live by a few in savannah, and had friends that attended, and friends that didn't.

My close friend and coworker for a year lived in the church. i mean like every day almost. he also played a mean piano and plays for his church as well. he is also plays for local arena football team. over the hundred or so debates we have had about me bringing up aliens or conspiracies to see what he would say, he would never fault in his belief of the one true lord. he never complained over there being a white jesus, because it didnt matter. i asked him. he said he didnt believe he was white, but didnt make a difference either way. he could see the hypocriscies in it, yet continued to believe that the church is good in the local setting.

my friends who were atheist just kinda accepted that they didnt know what was up, and didnt really care. they didnt go on tirades blasting every over their beliefs.

whether you have a belief in religion or not, you still have a belief.

reply to post by ButterCookie

African Americans are truly a lost race.

We lost our names, culture, religions, families, and lives and yet when we decide to get together to dig for what we lost, you ( angry caucasian ATS'ers) get bent outta shape and acted like we've started a race-war..

I hope you come back and watch the PBS documentary I posted, you are not any more lost then the rest of us,

Originally posted by yodagod
reply to post by Exposing The Devil

 

I believe in Christ, the one of the Bible, not the Catholic white pagan version of Christ.

So which one of these wonderful mangods was responsible for slavery 101 your man or the catholic white pagan mangod ?

Slavery is not copyrighted by black Americans. The Jews, before becoming "Israelites", were slaves.

Just about every ethnic group has, at 1 time or another, had a reprsentative amongst the ranks of the slaves somewhere on Earth.

Why reserve such indignation for US slavery of blacks? Is the same indignation on behalf of the Jewish people who were enslaved by Nubian (i.e., "black") Egyptians?

If a woman is raped, and states something like, "I refuse to be the victim", they are applauded. It is an admirable trait for someone to stand strong and denounce their status as victim. It is honorable to live without excuse, and to hold yourself to a higher account than your peers do.

The descendants of slaves should cast aside all notions of victimhood. It will not benefit them individually, or collectively.

If you are black ,and live in poverty now, yes it sucks. You were dealt a band hand to start with. Doesn't mean you roll over and quit, though. Study, work hard, stay in school, and do not partake in the thug life glorified on TV and in music. Do these things ,and you will find yourself improving your condition considerably. If your kids will pick up the torch where you left off, they will find that they, too, are better off than you were. This is how we do it in America. My in laws, children of Mexican immigrants, understand this fact.

reply to post by ButterCookie

We African Americans are truly a lost race.

We lost our names, culture, religions, families, and lives and yet when we decide to get together to dig for what we lost, you ( angry caucasian ATS'ers) get bent outta shape and acted like we've started a race-war..

You must admit, though, that the word "oppressed" implies that someone is oppressing you.

It is easy to see why people got upset. Look at the thread title. It reads like the title of a flyer for a Malcom X rally. Was the intent not to cause a stir?

BTW, there is no such thing as a "lost race". Such notions put far too much value on the ethnic pride. This is a trait of a small minded people. Don't think like this.

I know that some of my family is Hungarian. Other than that, i have little in the way of my own geneology. It is no big deal, as it matters not in the scheme of things.

If someone wants racial equality, then it would be expected that they would cast off all notions of race. The statement above is the exact opposite of this.

I will also add, once again, that calling yourself "oppressed" implies an oppressor. Who, exactly, is this oppressor?

[edit on 10-3-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]