Cops & Judges Caught Using Secret Codes On Tickets

Codes are used, plain and simple... but it isn't as if they are unwarranted.

If you, as a driver, are being belligerent and disrespectful, chances are you may get an A/O. Yes, this does tell the judge that you were a complete @$$ about things. It tells him that, chances are, getting a ticket or fine will not teach you the lesson a ticket is supposed to; there will be no reductions.

On the flip side, you might be completely polite and courteous... thus, a smiley face. The judge sees this, and trusts the opinion of the officer that thie person in question was being "good" and seemed completely understanding.

These are not wrong.

An officer is stating his opinion when he jots something down like that, his impression of the scene and the state of mind of the individual. The judge may take that into consideration, but it does not affect his judgement.

The judge is gauging the individual while appearing in court. If that person is being a dick to the judge, and the judge sees the A/O comment, then that lets him know this guy is a complete jerk. He had no respect for the officer, had no respect for the court.

I, too, am in law enforcement, and have come across this. Is it taught? No... every officer I know utilizes their own coding; some may over lap, but it isn't a conspiracy.

...

Also, the coding reminds the officer on how the individual was behaving for when he has to write his daily reports. A ticket only has so much information in it, and an officer cannot be expected to remember every little thing throughout the day. A small code reminds him of the situation... an icon goes a long way to jar ones memory.

[edit on 2010/3/2 by The Soothsayer]

reply to post by The Soothsayer


Is that really his OPINION, or is that just the facts of what happened during the traffic stop? An opinion seems like the wrong term to use in this case. Like the one guy on here said, if someone gives him the whole "this ticket is bs" line that's one thing, but tearing up tickets and cursing out an officer is a horse of a different color.

This thread has made me both laugh, and shake my head in disgust.

How I see it, the ones who scream the most have a better chance of trying to come off as completely innocent.

A written notation on a ticket shows how the officer perceived the offender at the time of the incident.

If I am yelling and screaming at the cop, and he writes Adam Henry on my ticket, and I go into court and say "I just don't understand, I was nice and calm and think the guy should have let me off!"

The judge looks down and says "well here it seems the officer had a different view point, LETS GO TO THE TAPE!" and the tape shows that you did indeed throw a hissy fit.

Now if this same scenario happens, but the cop decides NOT to put an Adam Henry, I go to court, say I was being a good little boy, the judge looks down, notices no notation, the cop speaks up and goes "Oh...Ya! He was a huge jerk!", that doesn't hold water. To me, notations like this are the cops CYA protocol.

Now let's say I was speeding, and I go to court. The cop says I'm speeding, I say I wasn't, but the cop also states that I was very cooperative. This gives the judge a reason to either reduce the fine, or possibly let you off altogether. If I say I wasn't speeding, but the cop says I was a jerk and the video shows it, I doubt I'd get off.

I work for a cab company and get people complaining at least once every few days for various reasons (it's amazing how people try to get out of paying cab fares).

If I get a complaint, and the person is polite, yet upset, I make a note of that. If they are rude and yelling at me, I make a note of that also. Not to pass judgement, but so my boss knows what they COULD be dealing with when he speaks with them.


The question I have for the Officer is this: Do you make notation when a person is very cooperative? If not, why?

You know, the last time i checked LEO'S WERE NOT THERE TO HAND DOWN PERSONAL JUDGEMENT, whether its on your attitude, or character or otherwise. LEO's are supposed to be impartial enforcers of the law. Unfortunately they made the jump at some point from being peace officers, to handing down jail sentences for any number of victimless crimes. Either way this is not the way it should be, its presenting evidence to the judge and not a jury, if that was the case for your traffic court. Not to mention any and all evidence presented against you, YOU have a right to prove yourself innocent of. Which would be a little hard if its a mark on the back of a ticket that only the judge sees.


Oh well, just my $.02 on the subject

reply to post by SilentBob86


Once again, I'm having a hard time finding the whole "opinion" argument here. How is it the opinion of the officer? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just simply don't see how marking someone was being rude or non-cooperative is an opinion.

reply to post by rcwj1975


a cop on here of course,whatcha doing ,,getting a feel of the atmosphere? seeing if the us criminals are ready to take to the streets?so you can shed your uniform and hide like the rest of the cowards with a badge will most certanly do?
oh what you one of us?,as long as you wear a badge and uniform serving this illegal government,inforcing their laws ,you are one of them, there are no good cops,just good people being traind to hate and persicute other good people,its in the training and the laws you follow.

and as for your coment on the video,,sure you "havnt "though of such a good idea yet,,and maybe havnt done it personaly,,but how many times have you lied ,or code talked with other officers in the feild?turned a blind eye to abuse ,abused,or just plain asserted your authority over someone just to get your way or be vendictive,,in and out of uniform?
so you didnt pute a smily face on a ticket,,i wonder how many people cried in the back of your squad car as they went to jail for the first time ,with all they needed was a sceond chnce or for you to just stop for a sec and be compassonit,how many lives ruind?probably hundreds,
" oh im just doing my job" you say, well your job is to serve the PEOPLE and PROTECT the people,you serve the courts, who serve the state,who serve the fed,thats who you serve!period!!!!
am i worried you might say internet herasment,, f-u A.H., and i ment what you thought, no im not ,i took an oath also .
an oath of none compliance,binding and legal,as long as this illegal government exists,it is not my government in any shape or form,and i will fight to protect my rights given to me by the constitution,and bill of rights.
especialy the one that says ,"NO LAW shall be made that infringes on my right to bear arms.
so go tacticle it up with your budies,cuz a storm is coming and america will stand up!be ready, lier!

I don't trust cops or judges for any kind of ticket. I'm 27 now, and I've only had ONE speeding ticket when I was 16. I drove a '93 Wrangler 4-banger, that was lifted and had huge tires on it(I forgot the size, it's been years). I never got my Wrangler re-geared when I got the bigger tires, so it couldn't go above 60mph(yes, I know, it was slow, but hey, this is the point to the story).

I got pulled over going 67 in a 45, so I ask the cop if I can see the reading, cause I didn't believe him. Yes, I was calm, and he even said I was in court, but he didn't let me see my reading, and I tried to explain to him that I couldn't be going that fast, because my vehicle literally can't go that speed. He said he didn't care, wrote me the ticket, and that I could fight it in court. So, I go straight home, tell my parents what just happened, and they were kinda mad at me, but at the same time, my Dad even knew my Wrangler couldn't go that fast.

So, we went and paid about $65 to get it tested, saw how fast it can top out at, and also, to see if my gauges weren't messed up. My gauges were fine, and my Wrangler actually topped out at 58-59mph. I kept the papers that showed the results, and I pleaded not-guilty. When I went up to face the judge, the cop spoke first, explained what he did, and then it was my turn. I explained up front about my car, but instead of being taken seriously, everybody in the courtroom, including the cops and judges, erupted in laughter. The judge, who was snickering at me now, said I needed proof, which I pulled the papers out of my pocked, proceeded to hand it over to the judge, along with the date it was tested. He read it, laughed again, and said "guilty". My mom, who was there with me, bolted out of her chair, and a rage I have never seen, came out of her. She was cussing straight at the judge, telling him that we had hard proof, F-this and F-that, and that they could all go to hell.

The ticket was $60-something, so my mom made me go to the bank, get $60 worth of pennies, and went back, plopped it down to the person we had to pay, and walked out. Haha, my Mom is the best.

And THAT was the day I started to question authority, and is why I don't really trust what cops or judges have to say in court. Sure, not all cops and judges are bad, but it just takes on experience, to give you insight of how corrupt it can be sometimes.



[edit on 2-3-2010 by TravisT]

ok.. i just have one question.. how does the driver let the judge know that the officer may have been impolite or aggressive or hostile?

were do we right the damn smileys?

Originally posted by Rockstar02
reply to post by SilentBob86

 

Once again, I'm having a hard time finding the whole "opinion" argument here. How is it the opinion of the officer? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just simply don't see how marking someone was being rude or non-cooperative is an opinion.

Because there is no way to counter that claim nor expose whether it was the officer who was hostile or disrespectful. There is no opportunity to counter this 'notation' or defend against it. It is a 'secret' communication offering 'evidence' about the case OUTSIDE due process.

Further, we are expected to assume that everyone who gets pulled over for a traffic violation deserves it. Why is that? Infallible law enforcement? Anything used to determine the guilt and or punishment of a violator must be open to scrutiny by the accused - that is the principle of law this abrogates.

Why should police be able to 'whisper' into the judges ear about how he or she 'felt' outside the facts of the case. Or are they saying that if we examine court records we will see comments about...

Judge: I see you were rude to the officer

Defendant: Where does it say that... it's not on MY citation.

Judge: It's this 'frowny face' with the AH notation next to it....

Defendant: Oh well then, it must be true.

Judge: In that case, MAXIMUM penalty and points - adjourned!

Originally posted by Gregarious
reply to post by rcwj1975

 

Sorry, I have had numerous experiences with your criminal gang, and I KNOW that it is the norm, not NEARLY the exception. I absolutely agree with law and order, and despise our current crop of gangsters pretending to be LEOs. Your feining innocence and saying that there are 'some' bad apples, absolutely PROVES you are one of the bad apples. The good cops are the rare exception. All, ALL the innocent and good cops are either driven out, or quit. Much like actual Christians are driven out or flee the church now that the church age has ended, and the HS left. If you remain and have no problem with church now, you are in the church of Lucifer and serving him, and if you remain in law enforcement, you are one of the rogue cops. YOU, yes YOU. Thanx for the warning, I'll be sure to never meet you, and I will be sure to discount anything you have to say here.

Do you have some kind of information to back this up? Like quantifiable facts?

I'm not talking about a narrative about the time you had a bad day and blamed it on a cop.

How does rcwj1975 "absolutely PROVE" that he is a bad apple by admitting that cops are human and thus fallible?

How do you defend that all the good cops have been driven out or quit the force? (With facts, please, not opinion).

I don't know how this works into your theory that all cops are bad, but since it was such a large part of your post I'll assume it is in some way related- I'd also like to know how I am serving Lucifer by going to church.

Cops are regular guys. If you have this preconceived hatred of every LEO you encounter, it will no doubt be obvious in the way you treat them. You fault them for returning the favor. They also make mistakes with a frequency on par with mistakes made in every other profession on the planet.

Maybe we should just get rid of the police, and blanket the nation with video cameras. Cameras don't lie or draw frowny faces on the back of your ticket. They can't be bought off by organized crime and they won't spend their shifts at the donut shop. To avoid an officer misinterpreting a situation we'll just take him out of the equation. Being attacked? The cops might be confused as to attacker/attackee, so we'll take that possible misunderstanding out of the situation and let you sort it out amongst yourselves. Drunk driver swerving around clipping parked cars in a school zone? Cops might get emotional and hurt his feelings during the traffic stop, so we'll just use the traffic cameras and mail him a stern warning that he can read when he sobers up.

We all like video cameras on every corner, right?

But lets make this thread a little more constructive than repetitive attacks against our fellow ATS members that currently serve as LEOs.

How do you propose that we enforce law within a society such as our own? If it is with a human police force how do you propose that this force be composed and disposed so as to alleviate the "bad cop" phenomenon that some posit to be so prevalent? If you think its broke, how do we fix it?

[edit on 2-3-2010 by WhiteOneActual]

You have to love ATS when an actual police officer comes here. Explains what the codes are, why they are used, when they are used and what they are used for. Even tell the reason they are used in court. Which is to help defend against lies and to show the cam, And the only responses are calling him out, making assumptions about him. Instead of saying thanks for your info on this discussion. This place is so far gone. And every week its a new topic that gets thrashed over and over and over again.

Now that that is said. This can be easily avoided. All this conspiracy to get people in trouble in court. If your speeding you deserve to be pulled over because you are endangering those around you. If your are swerving you deserve to be pulled over like that. Those are also indicators that you may be under the influence and once again you need to be taken off the road.

Now if you just take the punishment, act politely and admit that yes.. i was speeding officer, i can tell you most of your problems will go away. Now if your being aggressive, ranting, hostile, threatening because you got pulled over. Your punishment will be worse. Its the same thing as talking in class. you get called out and admit it and don't do it again your done. But if you yell about it blame it on others, deny deny deny, your punishment will be far greater.

I call it maturity, and responsibility. But i forget those things are almost gone today. If you do get pulled over and believe it was unfair. Be polite and just take the ticket. Go to court, challenge the ticket later. Doing so in front of an officer will not help. And in court you can bring things into call. Without having your attitude brought into court. Since your attitude means nothing in court according to some here.. Think about it those codes are there to prove your a piece of crap pretty much in case you continue being a piece of crap. An officer wont put those there if there is no reason, because the camera can prove that wrong.

In closing be mature, Be responsible and stop thinking everything and everyone is out to get you. Some tickets are bull#, most aren't. Thanks for every ones input. Deny ignorance, use reason.

Originally posted by SLaPPiE
Hey I got a question or two for ya. I'm the son of a cop..then private dick. My dad died and I never asked him this stuff. I don't think anymore of you because of your job than anyone else, yet I will treat you with more respect as the law requires.

I am SO GLAD you do not think anymore of me then your fellow man. I am simply a guy with an important job that I take seriously. I am no better tha you or anyone else, just chose this profession and know that its definitly not for everyone.

1)Do you ever feel bad for pulling someone over, knowing they were not hurting anyone or themselves and where likely not to hurt themselves or anyone, only that they had commited a minor infraction.

No I don't feel bad for stopping someone. If there is a violation there is a violation. The key is do I give a ticket to everyone. Of course not. I don't make more money by writing tickets. I don't get commission. When I pull over people who have taillights out, or a headlight out, I simply check to make sure they are valid drivers, make sure the car is registered and insured, then inform them to get their stuff fixed. Why write a ticket to someone and make them pay a fine AND pay to fix the problem? If it was something minor (no turn signal, failure to yield, etc) I am stopping them more to warn them and tell them the hazards of doing so. Why, because I have been on to many accident scenes where kids, and people are dead due to someone not using basic sense.

2)We all know you did not write the law, and are tasked to uphold it.
Does it bother you that you must enforce laws that you don't agree with?

Sometimes it does. That is why out of the 137 pages of traffic laws, I can count on one hand the number of pages I actually enforce. Will I pull you over because your registration sticker isn't in the proper corner of your license plate....uhhhh NO...lol...but it is law and I COULD.

3)What is your ratio of help to hurt? I mean at the end of the year how much money have you taken from people, and how much have you given. By given, I don't mean money...cause we all know that you are not handing out hundreds for good driving. I mean what do you to keep inner balance when you have to take and take?

I don't take and take. Again I don't get rewarded for writing tickets. None of that money comes to me. Calling it HURTING a driver I find a bit odd. Last I checked when YOU violate the law or break the rules, who is really hurting who? YOURSELF!

As I said earlier I let FAR more people go with a warning or a@@ chewing then I write tickets. There are some offenses that I WILL NOT give breaks on...when you chose to disregard law and put someone else or a family at risk for being a jacka@@...trust me, i am MORE than happy to tell you: "press hard your signing five copies"!

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Atleast I put my "codes" on the front of the ticket...

I only use codes if your acting like an idiot. Sorry but if you blow a stop sign, are doing 85 in a 50, or pass on a double yellow making other motorists swirve, etc....I have NO sympathy for you and definitly will note on the ticket if your being an AH driver. Blows my mind how some people have complete disregard for not just the law but fellow drivers....then have the nerve to act like the cops are in the wrong.

Are some tickets BS and should never have been written? YES I agree 100%, but I cannot speak for those officers. As for me, you have to have blantant disregard, and when you do, don't complain and be a whiney a@@, just take your ticket and face YOUR wrong doing.

p.s. AH stands for Aggressive & Hostile, not AHOLE...haha...for all of you assuming...

If the driver were agressive and hostile, but not to the level of an actual offense you could charge for, then they have done NOPTHING ILLEGAL and nothing wrong...YOU are the problem, copper!!

You want an UNFAIR advantage !! Yopu are acting to give testimony that is IMPERMISSIBLE in court, and so you are CHEATING the system to have SWORN to uphold...like most cops, they do not care one iota about the laws and being fair..all they want is a conviction at all costs, and to hell with the real laws.

If a driver is ' agressive and hostile' but has not done anything you can charge for, then they have done NOTHING wrong!! just because you have thin skin and an inflated ego does not mean that you get to influence judges illegally. If there is not a DESIGNATED and LEGAL area on the ticket for such personal beliefs and accusations ( and there is not) then fine. As long as the accused gets to describe YOUR behavior to the judge then all is well.

But the cops do NOT want equality, they want an unfair advantage against their employerts...US. Their hope is that the judge will see their signs and forget the law and convict and sentence based on the coppers UNFOUNDED accusations and comments. Imagine if we could complain to the judge about the COPS attitudes...that would take so much court time it would grind to a halt describing the intimidation, lies, bluffs, illegal alerts and demeaning attitudes that most cops use.

It is HIGH TIME we citizens exposed this crap and make sure that in every courtroom, for every ticket, drivers should ask to see the cops copy so they can see any personal opinions abouit the driver listed in signs...thats all this is actually, a cops opinion and nothing more...but there are no laws that say we are to be judged buy some cops opinions of us.

Cops are such crybabies and whiners: They always want an unfair advantage and will subvert justice to do it. Sickening.Secret messages to the judge are ILLEGAL and IMPROPER in any civilized system, and we can thank the cops for once again sinking to the lowest possible denominator.

Originally posted by fumanchu

I cannot believe you have the gaul to sit here admitting to prejudice. You sir, are scum and you are the reason why an increasing number of normal law abiding citizens loath law enforcement. Since when were you made the judge? What authority was granted upon you to judge others? If you cannot do your job without remaining completely impartial, you shouldn't be a damn cop. You are a disgrace to the profession.

Well, someone had a bad day huh?

Oh and if you can name me ONE human being that can be completly impartial at ANY job, please name them...cause that would make them perfect...and I am not.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not sure I see anything wrong with police officers letting the Judge know the disposition of people who receive tickets.

There's often very little evidence to go on when people protest tickets in court, and it would certainly help (in my mind) to know if the driver was being belligerent or not. Personally, I am always very polite when dealing with police officers, and the idea of acting rudely or belligerent towards them is unfathomable to me.

It's one thing to think you've done nothing wrong and protest a ticket in court. It's another thing entirely to swear at or verbally abuse an officer of the law for simply doing his job.

If you get a ticket and you plan to fight it, you should be EXTRA polite.

Remember: This "code" works both ways. If you've got a big happy face with stars and roses on the back of your ticket because you treated the cop very well and very polite, the Judge is probably going to be a little bit more understanding of your concerns.

This doesn't seem like a breach of justice to me... just common sense.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
The question I have for the Officer is this: Do you make notation when a person is very cooperative? If not, why?

No need too, they usually don't get tickets...

But if they are cooprative and I still cite, I DO take into consideration why they may have been speeding/violating and come court time drop it down to a lesser charge so they don't get points, etc... We all screw up and I again am not out to take your money, I am out to write you a citation and show you that NEXT TIME your about to speed, pass someone, etc...you THINK first and realize that you can wait, or use caution, etc...

Are you saying that you are infallible in your judgment of traffic and driving?

That is extraordinary. Why are you wasting this incredible gift as a traffic cop?

You could at least be a judge on "American Idol".

Originally posted by rcwj1975
the person DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LAW(S) THEY CHOOSE TO BREAK



When you KNOWINGLY violate the law in such a manner as to NOT care about others on the road, just simply be man or woman enough to sign the ticket and move on.




Regardless of what I write on the ticket DOESN'T supercede the law you broke in such a careless way.

Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by Pauligirl

I know that in my neck of the woods, it's common practice for the judge to ask the charging officer in court if the offender was cooperative or not.

Not sure why it's being weird about quotes but this was directed towards Montana.

Judges everywhere do that, the last time I was in traffic court they did and I have heard a number of other areas that do that as well. Usually they ask to determine if they should make you pay the entire fine or a reduced judgment.

You seem to make your feelings pretty apparent, but in the end you have to know they are just human like everyone else. You can’t create some imaginary pedestal and expect them to be like that 100% of the time. It won’t ever happen, no one is ever absolute not even those in the SCOTUS. If you had the position and did what they did after a while I guarantee that you would do the exact same thing. Part of the problem comes from the general apathy of the public. People are more and more self centered and it’s evident by the way we treat each other…hell even just walking down the street these days it’s evident. If people actually cared about how their actions might impact others we wouldn’t have so many AH people out there.

I’m sorry you have such hostility towards law/law enforcement but this is reality and not everything is the way you want it to be because it’s run by people like you and me.

You seem to make your feelings pretty apparent, but in the end you have to know they are just human like everyone else. You can't create an imaginary standard just for them and expect them to act like that all the time. It won't ever happen.

[edit on 3/2/2010 by Everwatcher33]

Originally posted by superjesse13132000
a cop on here of course,whatcha doing ,,getting a feel of the atmosphere?

You really think I need to come to ATS to see the atmosphere. I work just outside Atlanta for a county of almost 2 million people...I see every attitude, walk of life, personality, etc...IN PERSON everyday.

seeing if the us criminals are ready to take to the streets?so you can shed your uniform and hide like the rest of the cowards with a badge will most certanly do?

LOL...yes thats it. I am currently looking for aplace to hide while brave people such as yourself get society under control again.

oh what you one of us?,as long as you wear a badge and uniform serving this illegal government,inforcing their laws ,you are one of them, there are no good cops,just good people being traind to hate and persicute other good people,its in the training and the laws you follow.

Funny, if that were the case I would arrest and give tickets on EVERY violation of state law I see. Do I...nope, but reading your post tells me your not smart enough to understand officer discretion..so google it.

and as for your coment on the video,,sure you "havnt "though of such a good idea yet,,and maybe havnt done it personaly,,but how many times have you lied ,or code talked with other officers in the feild?turned a blind eye to abuse ,abused,or just plain asserted your authority over someone just to get your way or be vendictive,,in and out of uniform?

As I stated many times on MANY different threads, I am not perfect, have screwed up, have done things I shouldn't have....just like EVERYONE else. The key is I learned from my mistakes, made myself better, and that reflects in my job. Plus anything I say outside of what you wanna hear won't matter because, well you wouldn't listen anyway.

so you didnt pute a smily face on a ticket,,i wonder how many people cried in the back of your squad car as they went to jail for the first time ,with all they needed was a sceond chnce or for you to just stop for a sec and be compassonit,how many lives ruind?probably hundreds,
" oh im just doing my job" you say, well your job is to serve the PEOPLE and PROTECT the people,you serve the courts, who serve the state,who serve the fed,thats who you serve!period!!!!

Are we talking about me here or you?

am i worried you might say internet herasment,, f-u A.H., and i ment what you thought, no im not ,i took an oath also .
an oath of none compliance,binding and legal,as long as this illegal government exists,it is not my government in any shape or form,and i will fight to protect my rights given to me by the constitution,and bill of rights.
especialy the one that says ,"NO LAW shall be made that infringes on my right to bear arms.
so go tacticle it up with your budies,cuz a storm is coming and america will stand up!be ready, lier!

HAHA.. WTF did you just say...

reply to post by FortAnthem


And this surprises who ?!!! I was issued a citation for making an illegal U-turn in a small town here in oklahoma that a major traffic corridor runs thru. NO SIGN WAS POSTED to indicate that a u-turn was not permissable, as there is in every other town around here. Took it to court,judge has the balls to tell me that u-turns are illegal anywhere in oklahoma!!! I argued that with him and he conceded that maybe he was wrong,but that they were illegal anywhere in this town.With a major traffic corrider running thru this town,I asked him how all the people driving thru here from texas were expected to know u-turns were illegal everywhere in this town. His reply was "IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE" and I was fined in excess of $100.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!