An Atheist Defends Religion

Well isn't that noble. What religion defends atheism?

reply to post by Lilitu


My lord taught me to love all people, including you, regardless of their belief structure. I defend your right to believe whatever you will, and I will go to war for your right to speak your mind freely against any oppressor foreign or domestic. I hope we can all put aside our differences and focus on our shared goals. We as human beings and as Americans will never get anything done if we continue to work against each other, we must be united and focus on our common goals whatever they may be to accomplish anything - including but not limited to a revolution of the mind and a peaceful overthrowing of the powers that be.

So I don't know what religion defends atheism specifically, as i'm sure within any religious book you can find statements defending and attacking said thing, as these scrolls can be interpreted many ways. But I will defend atheism although it is the antitheses of my belief structure as I refuse to conform to the thesis vs. antithesis paradigm.

The idea is, stop focusing on what we disagree on and start focusing on common goals, stop working against each other and start working together. As the Beatles said - we can work it out.

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy


What if parents want to raise their children as cannibals.

Its all nice and pretty to say that EVERY belief and EVERY way of life should be allowed. Well lets just say that when the neigbors move in and gloat about how they have family orgies, im doubting youll sing the same tune.

Your logic is pitifull.

reply to post by Wertdagf


And again you put words in people's mouths and create a loony fallacy in an attempt to bait an argument. You couldn't get my goat with your nonsense in a bar nonetheless an internet forum. You are not going troll me no matter how many times you try, so save your time.

reply to post by Wertdagf


No, actually your application of illogic and calling it logic is pitiful. Allowing others to believe as they wish and not being a self-rightous git that feels only their beliefs has any value does not mean you will oppose obviously destructive behaviors. To bullheadedly believe otherwise despite what others may say or do is the very definition of illogic as is nothing more than bias tainted emotion that leads one to view things as such.

reply to post by Wertdagf


That's like saying legalizing gay marriage is going to allow people to marry horses. You make about as much sense as an evangelical republican.

reply to post by Wertdagf


And in lieu of an actual well thought out argument you resort to personal slander. Pathetic.

Here talk about how a flying spaghetti monster is real. Then i will rebut you by saying evolution is false because there is no CrocoDuck.

reply to post by Lilitu


Lilitu. There are plenty of religious individuals that defend your right to disbelieve. As at least one member has already shown.

reply to post by Lilitu


Well lilitu i know Buddhism and Unitarianism can be considered atheistic in the sense that there is no central god or gods, so if you are looking for religions that address the issue you brought up that would be a starting point. As a christian i feel it is my duty to defend your right to disbelieve. My god has told me to do unto others as i would have them do unto me

I may not be able to tell you of a specific religion that outright defends your rights but i can assure you that me and other like minded people will defend to the DEATH that you are allowed to believe the way you believe. I know if i had my own branch of christianity (We'll call it Shieldanism) one of the core tenets would be that all have a right to disbelieve.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Lilitu

 

Lilitu. There are plenty of religious individuals that defend your right to disbelieve. As at least one member has already shown.

In this I am also responding to KyleOrtonArmy and DeathShield.

Sure, I know there are religious individuals who say they would defend my right to be an atheist or antitheist and I am also aware of the non-theistic religions such as Buddhism and Taoism. However that isn't what I am asking. Bruce Sheiman isn't merely defending religious rights. He is defending religion as an institution. I am asking what religions defend atheism as a rational alternative to theism? Please consider your answer against the backdrop of discrimination against atheists.

reply to post by Lilitu


Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, you realise what you are doing here right? You are not weighing this at all equally. The article has an indivdual atheist defending religion and it seems you imply that since that is the case, atheism accepts religion as an acceptable alternative. Which we both know is very not true. But, when an religious indivdual accepts and defends atheism you ask about the instituition of religion accepts atheism as a way to offset that individual disproving certain theories stating religious people are intolerant.
Neither institution is going to accept the other as a perfectly acceptable alternative as a whole. I think that is self evident. Both sides think they are right.

reply to post by Lilitu

Well i already told you, i do not know of any religion that claims atheism as being a "good" alternative.

I really can't give you an honest answer outside of what i have already said. I mean forgive me if i come off condescending or presumptuous here, but it sounds like you are asking for a religion (possibly christianity) to teach that the polar opposite of their belief structure is an acceptable alternative. Religion can not endorse atheism, It can endorse aspects of Atheists who hold ideals such as Humanism and Natural Morality since they are a secularized version of basic abrahamic laws. For example i could endorse an atheists notion that "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you" or "thou shalt not kill" is an acceptable rule to live by as an atheist because it is universally acceptable rule in our society. It can even help us better understand ourselves in relation to god since it encourages an objective analysis of our actions and beliefs. But ultimately it can't be endorsed as an alternative to religion. It IS an alternative to religion, there is no denying that but it would be like asking if a Motorcycle is a good alternative to a hover craft. They both can share a common goal (to get you from point A to B) but their principles and applications in the real world are vastly different from eachother. I guess you could endorse Spiritual atheism as an alternative
to religion because it still operates on the notion that there is a higher (though natural and unconcious) power in our existence. I've heard atheists make a scientifically sound hypothesis for an afterlife and even a creator.

But i think that is besides the point. As Watcher pointed out Atheism is the lack of belief or disbelief in a god or higher power. theism and by extension religion is the presence of belief in higher powers. They are polar opposites. Although i would consider agnosticism and agnostic atheism, (i.e. weak atheism where in one is atheist but does not rule out the possibility of god or higher powers) to be the closest secular alternative to Theism because it acknowledges the plausibility of a creator and whatnot.


So i guess this is a conclusion we could draw.

Theism can endorse atheism given certain criteria are met, such as a mutual belief in the possibility of higher powers or synonymous moral standings. It can not endorse atheism by itself as a belief system since it requires a lack of belief or conscious disbelief in a god. Ultimately this means that Atheists can be endorsed by religion but atheism itself can not be since it violates the most basic requirements of religion or faith.


Either way i think you posed a good question.

reply to post by DeathShield


You forgot agnostic theism. Those that believe there is some sort "god", "prime mover" and etc. But is still willing to question their conclusion.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Lilitu

 

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, you realise what you are doing here right? You are not weighing this at all equally.

Yes but then it isn't an equal playing field. Religion is is a sociocultural institution. Atheism is not. It doesn't even come close, yet.

reply to post by DeathShield


Thanks for your honest response. I would have preferred you consider how atheists are discriminated against however.

reply to post by Lilitu


I was talking about individual bias. Funny how many who claim to hate the cycle of BS only act to perpetuate it. Justifying their inequities against the innocent of their opposing "side" by the inequities of the not so innocent. Bit of advice from a Nietzsche:

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."