I'm so sick of the backwards logic that is the well accepted American Philosophy.

The way your heading reads, " I'm so sick of ".

Is one of the worst ways you can begin a thread IMO.

It assumes everyone who reads it, cares about what makes you sick.

I know I'm not interested in what makes you sick.

In fact, there may not be anyone who cares what makes you sick.
What I guess I'm trying to say is how sick I am, of people who start threads in this way.

I mean I'm just sayin.

reply to post by Zerbst

You remind me of a maiden aunt who thinks she knows everything about marriage and how to bring up children.



[edit on 27/1/10 by troubleshooter]

Originally posted by endisnighe
They have created a standing army that the likes of which, mankind has never seen-

Mankind is seeing it for a long time, from Ancient Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire, British Empire... It has been and still is stationed all over the world.

Stars for Zerbst and endisnighe.

[edit on 27/1/2010 by SassyCat]

reply to post by Zerbst


I enjoyed that rant.

You hit the mark on so many double standards , that it seems to have made

a lot of people uncomfortable, hence the negative postings.

People for the most part are happy to live with their heads in the sand, you

made them look up and around, and they were upset by what they saw.

Rant Away My Friend

Originally posted by Zerbst


Personally, I find all religions to be hypocritical nonsense, but if I were to condemn only one, it certainly wouldn't be the one being practiced in it's entirety. When you decide that your instructions from God himself have mistakes that must be modified, you have just proved your religion is a fraud. You either obey all Gods laws, or you choose another faith. Accepted American philosophy says Muslims are to now be condemned for practicing their religion.

Ermmmm no. Once again you people have missed the point. Accepted American philosophy says that it is wrong to treat women as slaves. To beat women and to force them to do your bidding. Accepted American philosophy says it is wrong to kill other people because they don't believe what you do. Accepted American philosphy says it is wrong to whip a 13 year old girl 90 times for having a cell phone.

I could go on but I hope you get the point.

Its not about what they believe, I mean come on! the scientologists believe in space aliens and they aren't condemned!

Learn to think logically and rationally. I understand that many people on here are young and don't understand the complexities of certain situations.

@ Zerbst:
Quote : "You either obey all Gods laws, or you choose another faith."

Sorry buddy, all humans would constantly be changing religions then. No flesh can obey all laws in a perfect manner consistently as we are born in sin and it does affect everyone, irrespective of chosen religion. You fail to understand the concept of imperfection, redemption and continuity of culture, therefore your sad suggestion to abandon your religion/faith when you fall.

Get over it, no one's perfect except the Lord's Grace.

Choose wisely.

Originally posted by Zerbst

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Sorry, but some otherwise decent points were ruined by a parade of false and myopic assertions. In fact, I had to really look for the valid points. Let your brain think before your mouth rants.

How about you take your own advice and elaborate? You can start by revealing the specific assertions that provoked your response. It might also be a good idea to learn the definition of rant?

There is little incentive for me to critique and correct your assertions, but when I see a sweeping generalization such as this... "Accepted American philosophy says Muslims are to now be condemned for practicing their religion", followed by a plethora of equally bizarre rambling assumptions it makes it quite difficult to not only see your overall point but to even take this as a serious rant. I have a feeling that given the tone of your rant that if you receive enough negative reviews it may lead to yet another rant about how the "sheeple are just stupid" or something similar. No matter what, I hope you get to feeling better about all these things that are bothering you.

Your OP is FULL of incorrect assumptions about Christianity that are just completely inaccurate.

Originally posted by Zerbst
When you decide that your instructions from God himself have mistakes that must be modified, you have just proved your religion is a fraud. Practices identical to those held by Christianity and Judaism the only difference being these latter religions have no problem adjusting their word of God. The real faiths are the proven frauds.

There is no adjustments made to Christianity, but there differences in opinion of the way to interpret certain aspects of the Bible. The only real rules that apply to a Christian are the 10 commandments, the rest are instructions on how to help keep those commandments or instructions that only applied to the Jewish people. Many of the rules in the Bible only apply to Jews, as they were a covenant between the Jews and God. As far as I know, the Jews have never changed their stance on anything that is in their Torah.

Originally posted by Zerbst
We only like the most violent and perverted faiths that forgive our murders, rapes and thefts over and over as necessary. We will crucify any religion that is complete and strict. We won't tolerate covering your women so we can't look down their tops, or up their skirts. Only faiths that allow promiscuous behavior by women in skimpy clothing are legitimate.

I assume that you are referring to the Muslim faith. The only problem that people have with Muslims is the way that radical Muslims behave. If the people in the Middle East would round them up, and put them in prison, there might actually be peace there for 5 minutes. That will never happen, and Radical Islam is used as a pawn in the pissing contest that exists between the Arabic Nations and Israel.

Originally posted by Zerbst
Most people have concluded that Christianity be the most respected! After all they have murdered far more people than any other faith. But don't abort any babies.

You mistake Christianity with Roman Catholicism here. With the exception of a handful of people in some independent nutter cult who messed with some abortion clinics, no Protestant Christian Faith has been involved in any such activities. There were no Protestant crusades or inquisitions, and even Rome has not engaged in such activities in modern times.

Originally posted by Zerbst
They have the most money and political influence, God knows religion should be involved in politics.

Maybe the Roman Catholic Church does, but certainly not any of the others.

Originally posted by Zerbst
Christian faith provides unlimited forgiveness to any sins. Hell even when most of their priests were caught molesting hundreds of children they had enough forgiveness for all!

Christians believe that any person may be forgiven by God for any crime, but society will still punish that person if they have broken a law. The church certainly is not involved in the legal system, and if there was an issue that you feel was not handled correctly you need to look at justice department, not the Church. What you want to Church to do, put them in a special church prison??

Originally posted by Zerbst
Of course, all this info logically tells us to hate the Muslims!

I have been a Christian and a member of Christian communities for close to 40 years, and I have never been told to hate anyone, nor have I heard of anyone being told any such thing. There is a feeling in some of the Christian faiths that Israel is an important part of the “End Times” and that there is still a “Covenant” between God and Israel. This causes some Christians to support the Nation of Israel, who just happen to come under constant attack by Muslims. To be honest, if you want to know the source of ALL Middle Eastern strife and killing, it all stems from Mount Zion, which was actually predicted in the Bible.

Any anger that Muslims feel from Americans has to do with the activities of their radical brethren, more so then anything religious. Lets just say that many of us are tired of the antics of radical Islam. We get it, you’re upset that Israel is there, but guess what… Its there… Now get over it, stop damaging everyone else’s property, grow up, put on your big boy pants, and go get a real life.

Originally posted by Zerbst
Oh yeah, we love Christianity and hate gays, but if you hate gays and you're Muslim we will destroy you.

Christians do not hate gays, but we do believe that it is a sin. There are radical Gay groups though who have gone on the offensive with an all out attack on Christianity, and there are some Christian groups that do fight back with them. Either way though, Islam is even less tolerant of Gays the Christians are, in Islam being a homosexual is a death penalty offense.

Originally posted by Zerbst
We love going to war to spread peace. We believe in spreading democracy by installing dictatorships. We created terrorism so we could have an endless war with it. We sell tyrannical dictators weapons of mass destruction and later we will use WMD to attack and kill them for having WMD's that they no longer possess because we made them get rid of them. We overthrow foreign governments and install dictators. Later when the people revolt against our dictator and extinguish him, we call this definition of American patriotism as an act of terrorism when performed by these radical extremists. Though this act is dually defined as good and evil, it's accepted by all and used to fuel hatred of our new enemy.

That is the Government of the United States, it has nothing to do with Religion… Ever hear of Separation of Church and State?

Originally posted by Zerbst
Our philosophical beliefs are so completely twisted and backward, yet almost everyone agrees to it. We labeled the 911 people asking for a conclusive investigation of the event, "truthers". This term is used to describe those that pursue truth, but it's accepted as a negative label?

Truthers get a negative label for their antics in harassing and pestering people, both online and in the real world.

Originally posted by Zerbst
This American philosophy concluded that in order to repair our economy that was devastated by catastrophic mistakes fueled by greed, we must collect our every dollar, now and for years to come, and give it all back to the greedy perpetrators that created the crisis. Still not having any effect, but accepted to this day.

Obama campaigned on chasing lobbyists out of DC, FREE universal health care, withdrawal from Middle East and a few other things that equaled change.

I lump this together because to me it seems it seems to stem from the same issue. Basically, I have a feeling that neither “We the People” nor our “Elected Officials” actually run the government anymore. I think that these guy go to Washington with these grand ideals, then when they get there they are given a briefing to tell them exactly how the country is run. There was a point when Obama first got into office where he did an interview before he went into a meeting with (I think) the Defense Department, and came out like a totally different person. The change in his attitude was so profound that members here on ATS picked up on it and commented about it.

Originally posted by Zerbst
Peaceful protests in the US were corralled out of site, beaten, jailed and terrorized by black uniformed police. Hypocritical? Yes. Accepted American philosophy? Yes indeed.

If you want to protest in the US you must do it in a peaceful manner that is in compliance with the cities laws and ordinances. You have the freedom to speech and protest as long as it does not interfere with other peoples rights. What happens at most protests is that people get loud, rowdy, and start to interfere with the private venues where things are held. If they can hear your protest inside the building that they paid to have privacy in, then you are violating THEIR rights to peace and privacy, which means you are violation of the law and subject to disbursement and/or arrest.

Originally posted by Zerbst
Education is at the bottom of the list, close schools, crowd classrooms and cut teachers wages.

Politicians pull this old trick when they want more money from the populace. The second that they threaten to pull school, and police funding, they know it will upset people and they can increase taxes. Been doing the same thing since I was a kid.

Originally posted by Zerbst
Personally, I find all religions to be hypocritical nonsense, but if I were to condemn only one, it certainly wouldn't be the one being practiced in it's entirety. When you decide that your instructions from God himself have mistakes that must be modified, you have just proved your religion is a fraud. You either obey all Gods laws, or you choose another faith. Accepted American philosophy says Muslims are to now be condemned for practicing their religion. Practices identical to those held by Christianity and Judaism the only difference being these latter religions have no problem adjusting their word of God. The real faiths are the proven frauds.

Logical conclusions based on common sense have no place in this backward thinking philosophy. This one favors the fragmented religions that only follow the rules they want to follow. We only like the most violent and perverted faiths that forgive our murders, rapes and thefts over and over as necessary. We will crucify any religion that is complete and strict. We won't tolerate covering your women so we can't look down their tops, or up their skirts. Only faiths that allow promiscuous behavior by women in skimpy clothing are legitimate.

Your post starts off complaining about people who practice their religion in full. Who is practicing a religion in its entirety? Nobody I know of. Let me hear the details.

You seem to frown on Christians for practicing their religion, then you frown on Christians for frowning on the Muslims practicing their religion. Is that what you mean to say? That Muslim's are good for practicing their religion in its entirety but Christians are bad for practicing theirs in its entirety? That makes no sense, so I'm guessing that isn't what you mean.

I'm surprised your story is on the front page with all these self-contradictions. While I mostly don't care about religious rants one way or another, its annoying stuff like this is taking up the front page.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by truthquest]

reply to post by Zerbst


You are very confused about personalities and how religion affects them. Was the Iraq war by your estimation because of God's signs or because of dollar signs?

Many people who are Christians (but not all) assign blind obedience to the Bible. These types of people believe in blind obedience and unconditional support of authority. They are authoritarians. So, when the Iraq is invaded, those who believe in unconditional authority supported the war NOT because that is what the Bible said they should do, but rather because that is what the STATE said.

If/when religion fades away, all the same people who support the Bible without question will continue to support the legislation of the state without question. Religion is not the problem but an authoritarian attitude is the problem... such an attitude would remain strong as ever, even if all religion were to disappear overnight.

Spreading love and tamping down desires for ego is what the world needs. Many Christians do that so regardless of what you may think their actions show they are doing their part to "save the world". Some of them tack on their belief in authoritarianism, but others do not!

Originally posted by endisnighe
They have by manipulation of courts and legislation, allowed a hegemony of elite people and organizations to be above the law

OP Infinite-S&F

This is the one that gets me. The world is nothing more than one massive ponzi scheme. The question is: Who is playing the role of Bernie Madoff?

We can theorize that the world is run by groups of elitists, but every group has a head or chairperson. There is always one person that is looked to first. So, in theory, the world is controlled by one person. Who would the most powerful person on the face of the Earth be?

Should I dare say that perhaps this isn't even a "person."

This agenda that they've been putting forth for millenia sickens me. I believe we were destined for something else, but history was altered many, many years ago. Why? So a select few could rape the rest of humanity? Why do we let this persist? However, I also feel that this same power that has led to the corruption of these 'select' individuals would do likewise to anyone who dared try to change it.

The source of this must be found and in the words of Colin Powell, "First we're going to cut it off, then we're going to kill it."

Have a great day!

As rants go that was one from the heart, for that S&F. Not being one for naievity my opinion of those who would challenge your right to have a rant, or challenge the very ethos of your rant, is not as noble as some of my esteemed fellow posters.

True, there may be a few who have been forced to get their head out of sand and watch the monkey dance. But also true is that derailing your rant answers more questions about how near the nuckle it truly is.

Respects to you.

Nice rant I totally agree, been known to let off steam along the same lines myself

Only one grumble.... the title should be World Philosophy, not just American. I'm Australian and believe me it's getting as bad here.

I also agree with Captiva, the negative responses really show that some people 'just don't get it' or they latch on to one aspect and totally overlook the point trying to be made.

cheers Penny

If you think about it, religon is probably the number one killer of mankind in the entire history of the world. Believe in what you want, but personally I will never worship any god. I will believe in myself and be the best person I can. I will be good and kind to all living things not because some god told me to, but because I know in my heart its the right thing. I will never kill in the name of any god. I will never look down upon someone else for believing something else, because I am open minded. However, I do feel sorry for people who give themselves away to an idea that has murderd so many in its name. It really is ludacris if you stop and think about it. Why have faith in something you have never seen. Instead I would say have faith in yourself. Worshiping a god ireplaces free will with idealism. Everyone knows whats right and wrong. Why do we need a god to tell us that.

Growing in a small town in a very religiuous family, the church I went to didn't seem to be a war mongering operation. Mainly they tried to teach us some basic morality and comfort our spiritual needs in terms of the big picture. I guess I could point out atheist societies have killed millions too, for example Stalin and Mao. Without a little moral bearing in yoiur life, reason can be used to justify anything. Look at socilaist Hitler and his slaughter of people. I think there is room in life for a modicum of spirituality, mixed in with reason and logic too.

The whole purpose of the United States was to protect our freedom, but politicians keep taking it away. Illegal aliens are the real beneficiaries of freedom today because they don't pay taxes. I want the same deal they get. Okay my morality says chip in for schools and police/fire departments and streets, and some basic national defense, but not big government and tax slavery. You give people an inch and then they want a mile.

One more thing, who sold bad mortgages to Wall Street? The governemnt did through their GSEs. So some say greed caused the mess, but I say government caused the mess, and then the government blames the victim. What is greed? There are tons greedy people for free stuff. There is sloth and avarice too. There may be greedy people, but the market doesn't care. If you do something useful you will make money, not just because you are greedy buit because the free market makes it so.

Bernie Madoff was a greedy SOB.




[edit on 27-1-2010 by A52FWY]

[edit on 27-1-2010 by A52FWY]

reply to post by Zerbst



WE ladies are not an object you can make decisions for about our manner of attire, thank you very much. Arguing over which position to choose on the subject of female dress, denotes that you think you have the right to make such a decision. Let me spell it out for you: DRESS YOURSELF PAL.




[edit on 27-1-2010 by undo]

If you start with the realization that human beings will inevitably degrade, distort and destroy everything that matters to them, then nothing that happens will ever distress you. It's a diseased and evil soup that we swim through, and only when we poke our heads above the surface, now and then, do we get a moment of simple decency. And that decency is merely the absence of what constitutes reality and normality in this environment that holds our world and our universe and our understanding of what we are as conscious beings.

You'll die someday, and it'll be like getting # out of a raptor at six thousand feet. Not wonderful, but the smell will be a lot better.

reply to post by NorEaster


define simple decency, cause if you mean women stuffed in burkhas, that's a cruel and unusual punishment.

Okay folks, lissen up and the man without a God will school you in some basic knowledge concerning "Religion". The bulk of the philosophies we call religions were created in order to support political heirarchies at the very dawn of human civilization. Please understand, for the vast majority of mankind's tenure on this planet we existed in small bands of hunter-gather groups. These tribes tended to be loosley organized and its citizens had a maximum of free will concerning their day-to-day participation in the business of the tribe was concerned. The "religious" beliefs of these people have been lumped inot a general description called "Animism". THese people believed that there existed an unseen spirit world that manifested itself in everything around us and in us. Many of the groups believed in a "Great Spirit" but there was no political heirarchy in their spirituality, no ruling spirit that could tell the other spirits what to do. Any dicissiions that the spirit world made were fashioned in council, juswt like the eecisions that the tribes made.

With the advent of civilization and the population explosion that went along with it, the tribes became too large to simply allow its citizens to do whatever they wanted to. The larger tribes needed rules in order to avoid endless conflicts and keep the newly formed city-states functioning smoothly. They needed to establish a ruling authority to govern and control the comings and goings of the unprecedented populations that mankind was facing for the first time in it's long history. But how were they going to justify the authority that they meant to hand over to a select few? By what means could they subjigate a population that had traditionally been free to do whatever they liked at any given moment into a disciplined population that functioned, by and large, to sustain the new city-states?

The answer is obvious. They turned to Religion! They already had a universally accepted supernatural belief system concerning the natural world. All they needed to do was tack a political heirarchy onto it and, boom, they had the justfication for a political heiracrchy here on earth! The purpose of Animism was to provide comfort and solace to a primitive and ignorant humanity that still needed answers to life's very basic questions. It provided a basic belief frame-work that the simple folks could use to frame their lives and experiences in. The purpose of most religions is to provide a spiritual justfication for the rule of the few over the many. In my opinion only Zen and the Tao are exempt from this assessment. Every other major religion is really a license to rule for the elite of the world. The Divine Right Of Kings, etc. Religions are about controlling large groups of people, pure and simple. Without the rule of law and the corralling of basic human freedoms the existance of nations would be in complete jeaopardy. You simply can't have everyone cavorting about, doing whatever strikes their fancy at that particular moment. Nations require order; not chaos. Religion allows the privilaged to inflict that order on the rest of us. In God we trust.

reply to post by godless


hrm, religious texts are historical from what i can tell. they are not fabrications but recounting of events, in the language and tradition of the times in which they occured, and set in the back drop of moral laws and social laws.