Ignorance and it's Evil Twin, Intolerance

I am currently reading a book called The Camel Club, by David Baldacci. In it, one of the characters states that he "had always considered ignorance and intolerance to be like commas, because you often found them in pairs, and almost never did you find one, ignorance, without its evil twin, intolerance."

Now being a member of this site, the word ignorance gets my attention pretty much every time I see it, so it was quite natural that this got me to thinking. Now while I might not completely agree with this statement, I do see it to be mostly true. I would say that it is 100% true when speaking of intentional ignorance. Those who are intentionally ignorant are always intolerant of those who are learned in the area of their ignorance. Creationists are intolerant of those who know and understand science. The religious are intolerant of the non-faithful (or those of differing faiths) Conservatives are intolerant of non-conservatives. Liberals are intolerant of non-liberals. Well, I could go on forever with examples, but I think you get the picture.

So perhaps intolerance could be an indication of ignorance of the most dangerous kind, the intentional variety!!!

What are your thoughts?

Reply to post by JaxonRoberts

And sometimes intolerance is the parent of ignorance. For example the anti-religious's intolerance of the religious and demonization of them.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Yeah, I agree that ignorance and intolerance go hand in hand, but you go a little too far in thinking that just because somebody holds a firm belief (with religion or creationism) that they are intolerant or ignorant. Some are very well informed, and maybe you do not completely understand their viewpoint yourself. You never know exactly what angle somebody is coming from, and pretending you do would be ignorant.

Also liberals and conservatives aren't always ignorant or intolerant of each other either. Some are very well informed, and also tolerant.

Really those are just generalization and should be avoided, lest you seem ignorant or intolerant yourself.

Reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

And incidentally it need not be intentional. It' how our minds work. The thread in my signature has the information' I am too lazy to spend the time typing out on my cellphone.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by seattletruth


Nothing is 100%, but if you spend any time debating those subjects here, you see it all too clearly from a majority of those posting...

There's another pairing you encounter quite frequently also:

Judgementalism and its sister, self-righteousness

(not to mention their adopted cousin, 'sense of superiority' )

I agree 100% with what your saying, as a human being there is little I can't understand if I choose to and thus there is also very little I am Intolerant of...

The problem I see in our society however is that the word TOLERANCE has shifted to mean PARTICIPANT in many cases.

I think the reality of why we dispute is that Tolerance and active enrollment are two totally distinct things and this Politically Correct ideology we live with fails to make that distinction...

Take for example your comparison of Creationism and Evolution

I believe mostly in Evolution, but I am 100% as a human being tolerant of Creationists...

BUT

Under this system...we have to go beyond tolerance...if your a Creationist there are no public schools where you will be accepted, your children will be forced to believe Evolution

This is the sort of Grey area that makes the confrontations...

Neither Creationism nor Evolution is Ignorant, there is actually no way to know with 100% certainty the answer...

Yet one group... isn't just asked to Tolerate the other, but rather Accept it personally and become it...

So sometimes in America... I despise the word tolerance, because I can tolerate most anything that harms no one else....like pedophilia for instance... I would never deny another human being to be themselves...

But to me...Tolerance and active participation and enrollment are indistinguishable in this country...

Our nation is always Black and White...it's either illegal and bad (utter intolerance) or the reverse you not only have to accept the behavior or philosophy you have to work with it, play with it, learn more about it, go to school with it and you better not even say something against it...

I think what I'm saying is...

We lack real tolerance, because most people don't know the difference been tolerance and forced participation and involvement. And when you hold your ground in Non Participation your the bad guys these days...

Tolerance tome means you don't force your beliefs, you don';t attack others for theirs and you allow people to live in peace even if you disagree...

In America Tolerance has come to mean... some form or another of involvement with the people, philosophy or belief system in question...

Which is the exact opposite of tolerance... The right to simply Opt Out...and remain tolerant simply isn't allowed

Our nation...has always been very Black and White by beliefs... your IN or your OUT in any given circumstance... this constant Polarity exists on every level from politics Dem/Repub Only to Sex Gay/Straight Only to Race Black/White

Your forced to choose sides...

So Until this changes, true Tolerance will be very hard to come by IMHO, you have to get sucked into some form of Ignorance in defense of the way You want to live... because shades of Grey for some reason simply seems unfathomable in this culture...

I would stab a guess to say;

Nationalism and Globalism have a lot to do with this condition, the desire for wide spread unity of belief systems leaves very little room for actual tolerance for anyone as an individual or culture imho

They don't necessarily go hand-in-hand with each other.

- Ignorance of the law (telling a cop you didn't know stopping at a red light was required by law)
- Ignorance of computers (choosing to make a database on paper because you didn't know there were programs that can do it for you digitally)
- Ignorance of music theory (not knowing that there is a logical connection between notes, keys, scales, modes etc.)
- Ignorance of weather patterns (setting up a stall at an open market when heavy rain is forecast)

There can be a fine line between Wilful Ignorance for good reasons and for bad reasons. Choosing to be Ignorant of certain subjects can be done for positive reasons and does not mean you are displaying Intolerance by doing so. Of course, some people believe that Ignorance=Evil no matter what the context, but that is a matter of personal opinion.

It is not my right or duty to be welcoming and accepting of those that are different to me. I don't have a responsibility to sacrifice the happiness and welfare of the majority to increase the happiness and welfare of minorities.

We live in times where we are expected to be tolerant and understanding of minorities, whilst minorities are not expected to show the same toward the rest. Could this be why there is so much distress in the world? People expecting others to respect and accommodate their beliefs (which are not widespread among those they live with), but unwilling to do the same when situations are reversed.

[edit on 25/1/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I may deliberately say that I don't speak English or pretend to be stupid so that I may take advantage of your sympathy. Whether that be money, food, or information as in the case with many intelligence agencies foreign and domestic.

Although I see where you are coming from. Being Intolerant, or some would even say "narrow-minded", not taking any other opinions, all can come from the fact that the person knows it's possible their wrong, but aren't willing to discuss that possibility. But they aren't ignorant if they know its a possibility though are they?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
The religious are intolerant of the non-faithful (or those of differing faiths) Conservatives are intolerant of non-conservatives. Liberals are intolerant of non-liberals. Well, I could go on forever with examples, but I think you get the picture.

So perhaps intolerance could be an indication of ignorance of the most dangerous kind, the intentional variety!!!
What are your thoughts?

The rabid and rather vacuous politically correct are both ignorant of the truth and intolerant of anyone who pursue the truth. Of course their ignorance and intolerance spills over into other nations, South Africa and Zimbabwe are pretty excellent examples of how the PC can screw the pooch by supporting other ignorant and intolerant regimes. But heh, how else you gonna rape countries and get resources at well below fair market value unless you can install and deal with a corrupt government? Of course there is also tourism to countries like these, FIFA/World Cup? No, don't make the governments clean up their acts, let people go their on holiday to be robbed, raped and slaughtered, it will help the economy and reduce the population burden!

Cheers - Dave

reply to jaxonroberts

ignorance root is ignorance of truth value, truth value is certainty as the true source of positive absolute reality and positive absolute free life when it is about conscious of absolute reality wholeness certainty

so truth is about free certainty, and that is why wether freedom is a certainty like what nothing generated, then that certainty freedom becoming clear of its bases principles justifications is a source of positive reality wholeness that it regulate absolutely
or there is a relative free certainty, like any conscious means than its path is to certainty free life by acting as a source of its positive absolute reality alone

now what you said is very interesting and i interpret it like this,

from what you described, ignorance is the illusion that one reality is the positive certainty existing one
and intolerance is the illusion that one living is the positive certainty source free one