Does God Exist? - Einstein

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by randyvs

 

It is stupid for anyone to walk around spouting God does not exist. Do you have a clue why? BECAUSE THEY CANT KNOW THAT.

We are born not knowing about gods or God. Until someone puts the idea to us, there's no concept of one. We haven't evolved with the idea, it's a trope, a meme, an idea that's been transferred through time. That it doesn't exist in it's own form is evident by the massive difference in concepts of gods and God in this world. No consensus at all.

Calling a guy stupid is and SHOUTING isn't helping your case. Now you can hit the caps-lock and shout a lot or go away and stop trying to force your Faith-based logic on other people...

We're not born knowing about conspiracy theories in general, UFOs, NWO, HAARP, Project Blue Beam, bad Government, etc. Until someone puts the idea to us, there's no concept of them. We haven't evolved with those ideas, they are a trope, a meme, an idea that's been transferred through time. That they don't exist in their own form is evident by the massive difference in concepts of each in this world.

Sounds pretty ridiculous, huh?

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by SugarCube

 

Men created god(s) to try and explain things they did not understand
sun rise ,sun set, stars, moon , life and death etc.

If they had not used that method we would not have this thread most likely.

No. Man created science as a way to try to explain the things that God has created, not the way you're stating. Finite minds cannot ever fully comprehend Infinite Wisdom, therefore they created something within the boundaries of their own understanding to try to explain things they will never be able to understand.

Deuteronomy 29:29(KJV)
29The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

reply to post by jeramie


Wrong why did parts of the world have sun gods rain gods the god of thunder etc long before science was used so MAN created god(s).

reply to post by jeramie

We're not born knowing about conspiracy theories in general, UFOs, NWO, HAARP, Project Blue Beam, bad Government, etc. Until someone puts the idea to us, there's no concept of them. We haven't evolved with those ideas, they are a trope, a meme, an idea that's been transferred through time. That they don't exist in their own form is evident by the massive difference in concepts of each in this world.

Sounds pretty ridiculous, huh?

No. Not much.

UFOs, HAARP and bad Government are demonstrable facts. Belief in God is mainly an outcome of culture.

This is a testable contention by taking a survey of religious beliefs by geographical locations. Luckily, it's been done already...



If we take this at face value, it shows that a person's religious beliefs are largely dictated by where they're born. What the map fails to show, is to what extent are atheists represented in the populations? Someone could be forgiven for drawing the conclusion that *everyone* on Earth is a follower of one religion or another. We know that's not the case at all. Atheists and agnostics are out there in droves. Likewise, of those who are believers in God/gods, their level of belief varies from the nightmare Fundies to the believers who never go to church or mosques etc

This map was an outcome of a 2005 survey into European beliefs in God/gods/higher forces. The % represents the number of people who said they believed in God etc.



My own views waver near the agnostic position with tendencies towards atheism. The points made about religion being given to us and babies being born atheistic still stand.

This question is more philosophical than scientific.

Science is a process to evaluate the causal relationships within a given system. "God" is such an abstract and amorphous concept that stands to rationalize the existence of causal relationships within any system.

When I look out at the world - I find it rather hard to believe that there is not some kind of higher power with an influence on the overall progression of the universe. Explaining why there is -something- (even empty space) is a real vain, brain-busting endeavor. Why not nothing?

Now - we can get into multiverse theories and then postulate that we exist here because all of the components are right for us to exist in this one little bubble among a frothy foam of possibilities - in which case, one must ask whether or not a universe truly exists without a sentience to interact with it... this is little different from the problems posed by the two-slit experiment and questioning the power of observation. A universe that is inconsequential really doesn't need to be factored into unrelated systems that do currently matter.

Which leads me to a borderline heretical conclusion: sentience begets existence and serves to fundamentally transform the world with which that sentience interacts with. In a sense - sentience as a whole could be considered to be God.

Perhaps that's arrogant, or humbling, depending upon your perspective.

In general - I just take the final stance that it likely lay beyond my comprehension at this point in time, and one's views of God and religion are more tools of introspection than anything else. Quite obviously, I value my mind and ability to reason across a wide range of factors - it's only natural that my concept of a deity be focused on the concept of existence and pursuits of knowledge.

It all comes down to faith, really. Arguing over whether or not someone should commit to a 'leap of faith' and have some concept of God is an exercise in futility. No one is going to find faith in some concept of a deity through an argument ... nor are they going to lose faith in such concepts in an argument.

Religion, however, is something of a separate issue from the concept of a deity. There are multiple religions and religious fractions that allege to follow the same deity/deity-concept.... so religion can be said to be more of a social function than a function of divine existence/influence.

reply to post by Kandinsky

My own views waver near the agnostic position with tendencies towards atheism. The points made about religion being given to us and babies being born atheistic still stand.

Psss. Hey Kandy, how much knowledge of arithmatic are babies born with ? Babies can't be born atheist any more than their born plumbers. Don't be try'in pull no fast ones on my watch.

reply to post by predator0187


"I can absolutely say God does not exist because God number one is a religious word. Religion is the biggest scam perpetrated on human kind, and has done nothing but hold us back. It teaches us to be okay with understanding nothing and just relying on God for answers. It takes away what makes up special as human beings, curiosity and the willingness and ability to learn. "

TPTB did a good job, didn't they? So sneaky. So deceiptful.
1) Convince people that God isn't real, make him "unpopular"
2) give humanity "testimonies" of aliens
3) give humanity "witnesses" to the brings
4) give us texts (UFO books) in place of true religious texts
5) give us "prophets" for their "messages to humanity"
6) give us "evil" in the form of the "evil aliens" wanting to enslave humanity
7) give us "proof" of them through false interpretations of history
8) introduce the concept that "we were created by aliens" - which we are now seeing

So, what have they accomplished? And why would they want to do so?
They have substituted the real Creator for theirs. And the sheeple went "baaa" "baaa".

God exists, he is our creator, and is love, light and peace. That is the true God. Not the dark one who is trying to deceive mankind.

For those who want to move beyond the endless, futile war of words over the perennial question of the existence of God and who would like to encounter REAL, irrefutable evidence of transcendental design that renders philosophical debate superfluous, examine the amazing research at:
smphillips.8m.com...

If you take the time and effort to comprehend this work, you will never need any more to waste your time arguing about God. The proof is there waiting for you to inspect it, provided you make the necessary, intellectual effort to familiarize yourselves with this paradigm-shifting work.

reply to post by randyvs
I was a little rough on you in my first post, but you're one of my favourite ATSers. This means you get the stars, but you get a kick in the ass sometimes too. You're a good guy.

Psss. Hey Kandy, how much knowledge of arithmatic are babies born with ? Babies can't be born atheist any more than their born plumbers. Don't be try'in pull no fast ones on my watch.

That kid is quite amazing. Her paintings are stunning for a young child and show a born-talent at work. Whether that means God exists, or not, is open to debate and if she believes it, it's fine by me.

You're point about babies *not* being born with arithmetic or knowing how to change the washer on a stand-pipe is the same as mine! I was saying that belief in God is taught and you've just said the same thing. Atheists don't believe there's a God and babies don't either...until they're taught.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Kandy God knows I deserve a kick in the ass every time I get one.
I'm just hopeful that's all I get.

I did realise the harmony of our points so I had to follow with the vid.
The word I use for Akiane.

STUNNING
I wasn't really hoping to build a case against what you wrote around her.
Merely showing there is room to doubt it.
You Kandy, seem to possess a fairly flexible, yet tremendous intelligence, that shimmers is in almost every post.
That is an admirable quality that commands respect.
I always enjoy grappling with you.
Verbally, I mean of course.

Oh shut up Randy

This video is not a true story, this account never occured. Einstein was almost a pantheist of the "Spinoza" variety, he certainyl did not believe in a personal God.

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."- Einstein in a letter to an atheist, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side" (1982).

"I'm absolutely not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza’s pantheism, but admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things."-Albert Eisntein, interview in "Glimpses of the Grea"t by G.S Viereck.

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These [...] interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."- Albert Einstein in a letter to Eric Gutkind.

Clearly he was not an atheist, or even agnostic, but this video is religious indoctrination and fact spinning at it's best(worst). As you can see, Einstein's God would have no bearing on good or evil, as the video suggests. Please fact check next time.

“He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters”
Job 25:10
“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers”
Isaiah 40:22
“As the host of heaven cannot be numbered”
Jeremiah 33:22
The first two verses reveal that the earth is round. This proves that God is the author of the bible. In ancient times, people thought the earth was flat.
The third verse reveals that the stars of the heaven cannot be numbered. People around Galileo’s time thought they could count the stars by hand, but the bible already says it can’t be counted.
The bible was written around 3500 years ago, yet not until recently have we found scientific evidence that the earth is round and the stars innumerable. This proves God’s existence.

The ingredients capable of supporting complex life:
- Within habitable zone orbiting main sequence G2 dwarf star
- Protected by gas giant planets
- Within circumstellar habitable zone
- Nearly circular orbit
- Correct mass
- Oxygen-rich atmosphere
- Orbited by large moon
- Magnetic field
- Plate Techtonics
- Correct ratio of oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere
This shows that God formed the earth to be inhabited and that planet Earth didn’t spontaneously or was randomly created by chance. The probability of obtaining combinations of all these elements simultaneously is extremely low.
(based on a video I watched)

“But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you;
And the birds of the air and they will tell you;
Or speak to the earth and it will teach you;
And the fish of the sea will explain to you.
Who among all these does not know That the hand of the Lord has done this”
Job 12:7-9

reply to post by sara09


Revelation 7:1
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." (KJV)

Isaiah 11:12
"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (KJV)

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble." (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)

"...that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?" (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)

The Bible says the earth is flat, sorry, but it didn't predict a damn thing.

Also, a circle is a flat shape, a sphere is three dimensional. When God draws a circular horizon, it is referncing a flat shape, not anything that denoted a round, spherical earth.

reply to post by sara09


So your quoting from the bible sorry the story book WRITTEN BY MAN so if I now quote from Harry Potter will that mean we have a small percentage of the population who are wizards!