Does God Exist? - Einstein

reply to post by Jim Scott

When I was four years old, I distinctly remember looking at the sun in the sky and thinking about how it was a ball that my father threw up into the sky and it kept going. I had never been to church, nor did my parents ever talk about God. Consequently, I believe that the concept of God to explain things is already going through our minds at a young age, at least some of us.

That's an awful lot to remember for a four year old. You know we can 'retro-fit' memories to suit us? Confabulation, false memories. We all do it and we all have faulty & false memories. God or gods are an idea planted by our immediate contacts in life. Social constructs. The evolution of many gods to just one God shows the development of sophisticated thought in humanity.

I'm not saying there is or isn't a God, just pointing out that most of our reasons for saying God exists can be explained more pragmatically.

reply to post by Melyanna Tengwesta


Nothing really being created at all is a much simpler situation. There is no paradox of something from nothing. Apparent, creation or birth is a perspective. Personally, I'm not much for "God is in ALL" but rather "God is ALL", thus as the quote says, "There is no other". If there's no other, and that "no other" is not created, then creation is a confabulation of imagination and not truely a fact, paradoxically it MIGHT seem, not even if there is "creation" going on (we must include this in ALL). This is much easier to swallow given that nothing, no permutation, manifestation or non-manifestation is left out. There is no concern over "why this way and not some other way" if you catch my meaning-- ie. universes where math is different or aren't made of spacetime and matter or universes that aren't universes at all, on and on...

Also, since even this true transcendental "creator" is in fact indistinguishable from itself, since anything measured would be measuring "IT", there is no test to prove God and as illustrated previously, no test to disprove God. With this I feel as well established, it's the ultimate personal choice, the ultimate non-compulsion, thus you will find what you seek.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

You thought that because we are born with a predisposition to believe that everything has been created for a reason. As you grow older and your intelligence increases, some people choose to continue to believe that everything was created with a purpose, while some choose to abandon the childish belief and accept that the "ball in the sky" was not created for us with a purpose, based on the fact that we naturally know what the sun is and that it is not special or exclusive to us in the universe.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Schmidt1989]

I find it fascinating that you know more about my memories than do I. However, it was, as I said, a distinct memory, not confabulated. I have, apparently, a rather good recollection of significant amounts of my early childhood, even back to being bathed in a certain bath, or the particular sink, as a baby.

Wow thanks to everyone for contributing on this thread, i read all of it and really enjoyed some of your opinions and theorys.

I love how brilliant we all are, and yet we have such different views. Its really interesting.

Einstein was a smart man, and he was quoted many of times saying he does not believe in a personal god.

God is something we fabricate in our minds to understand right and wrong, it is always there and it is what we call our conscious.

I can absolutely say God does not exist because God number one is a religious word. Religion is the biggest scam perpetrated on human kind, and has done nothing but hold us back. It teaches us to be okay with understanding nothing and just relying on God for answers. It takes away what makes up special as human beings, curiosity and the willingness and ability to learn.


I always refer to the "Adam and Eve" story, God does not want us to eat from the tree of knowledge, and "Satan" or evil tells us that it is alright to eat. Now if you think about it, God lied to us, did not want us to eat from the tree of knowledge and gets mad that we become tempted when he puts in front of us. And, the whole time "Satan" is telling us to eat some knowledge, sounds strange for sure.

The reason why God does not exist is because Religion is a fallacy. God is a Religious word, People can make their own God up but at that point it is not God, it becomes a "higher power." So a lot of religious people do not believe in God they just believe in something higher. I meet a lot of people that say they are religious because they believe in something higher but hate religion, this just makes no sense.

To me there can be no real "Grey" area in this topic, you either believe in the self centered God of the bibles, or you believe in something higher, there is no God that hates the same people as you.

So to me there is no God, there can be something higher. No one knows what exists after this life, if anything, So i trust no bodies opinion on this. If you believe in "God" read the bible to me it is the biggest case for atheism going right now.

I do not mean to sound mean to religious people it is just that peace could be made through religion if it was possible it would have been done years ago. The fact that it has not means it is time for us to evolve to the next level because as Einstein himself put it:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
- Albert Einstein

And people it has been more than 2000 years...time to move on.

Pred...

reply to post by EnlightenUp


OK I can see your point of view in this matter. Although IF nothing is indeed really being created then WHERE does our consciousness and Soul come from? Are they both 100% imaginary too?

God = ALL so God is also IN ALL, doesn’t every living thing has a Soul-like energy that makes it ‘alive’?

Creation as it is told in the Bible is IMHO indeed a confabulation for it’s not even slightly possible that Earth and all that is (and was) living in/on it, was created in 7 days. The mere thought is hilarious to believe. IN this dimension that’s unlikely to have happened like this.

But ….. since we do not know YET (or will we ever know?) IF and how other dimensions and universes behave / are created, we can not say that what we know now IS so.

There are no tests to prove any spiritual entity exist, or God if you like but there are scientists nowadays that are trying to capture the nature of spirit and the measurable
effects of consciousness.

I could tell you about my own experiences in the ‘quantum field’ but since I cannot give any hard evidence to satisfy the masses I better don’t go into it here. (Have done that earlier on, on ATS )

The ‘God’ IN us, is free to make any choice, to built our believes and our world(s) the way we want to ‘experience’ it and hopefully it indeed will bring each and everyone of us that what we seek. Although I think it’s more likely it will bring us what we NEED. So that we are able to understand what happens IN and AROUND us and in a way that we are able to learn ….. but even that’s, of course, a FREE choice.

Namaste!

Darkness is created as a result of the absence of light.
Evil is created as a result of the absence of peace. God is not saying that He purposefully created evil for the sake of evil, but that because He FORMED peace, He in turn --created-- evil. He FORMED the light, and in turn He created the darkness. For example, if you were to take a block of marble and chisel it out, you would FORM a sculpture, but you would also have created a lot of marble chunks and dust. You have created a beautiful piece of art, but now its time to clean up after the mess you've made!

If you deny God's existence, then you are only fooling yourself. Who was it that said, "You cannot observe reality; the second you decide to, it changes." Try and try as you might -- but if you don't have faith in God, then you won't find God! So, stop wasting your time with your scientific method. It's not going to accomplish much that is any good...

The scientific method is good for obtaining relatively useless knowledge which is generally only applied to the forming of new technology and creating new ways for us to kill eachother.

If people would learn to be stronger and learn to use their bodies and minds more, then I guarantee that we, the most-perfectly created machine in existence, could accomplish a million times more than all the machinery in the world.

We have become very lazy and foolish. And so had Einstein.

Wow, very interesting, and very "real" for my perspective of god.
I shall send this video to my god-haters friends...

reply to post by TarzanBeta


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurius, 341 BCE - 270 BCE.

Originally posted by Melyanna Tengwesta
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

OK I can see your point of view in this matter. Although IF nothing is indeed really being created then WHERE does our consciousness and Soul come from? Are they both 100% imaginary too?

It's the very same as, there being none other than.

God = ALL so God is also IN ALL, doesn’t every living thing has a Soul-like energy that makes it ‘alive’?

I suppose the idea of ALL is in the ALL, and the ALL is in ALL is approprate to ponder.

Creation as it is told in the Bible is IMHO indeed a confabulation

for it’s not even slightly possible that Earth and all that is (and was) living in/on it, was created in 7 days. The mere thought is hilarious to believe. IN this dimension that’s unlikely to have happened like this.

Someone just didn't understand something properly when they put it into words.

But ….. since we do not know YET (or will we ever know?) IF and how other dimensions and universes behave / are created, we can not say that what we know now IS so.

All are.

e: Spacetime coordinates, Captain?
C: HERENOW, ensign! Escort yourself to the brig for your insolence!
e: Where? Sir?
C: HERENOW! Does it......that's an order!
e: On top of it, Sir!
C: Belay that order! Security will accompany you to sick bay. You seem to be under the influence of a malevolent entity. I will not have a boy risking the safety and wellbeing of this crew.

There are no tests to prove any spiritual entity exist, or God if you like but there are scientists nowadays that are trying to capture the nature of spirit and the measurable effects of consciousness.

Yes, I think its reaching to say obtaining evidence of the paranormal is evidence of a creator. All is normal afterall.

I could tell you about my own experiences in the ‘quantum field’ but since I cannot give any hard evidence to satisfy the masses I better don’t go into it here. (Have done that earlier on, on ATS

)

If they're anything like the strange gift of knowledge on how consciousness and qualia are possible, then I sympathize with your dilemma. Everyone who thinks these things are produced out of processes took a wrong turn. They are simply themselves.

Hehe, my trying to describe my understanding properly even in that small space is starting to bring on severe frustration again, even with a few sentences. One just has to "get it", at least with the sum of present-day human knowledge. It's weird but so plainly simple.

The ‘God’ IN us, is free to make any choice, to built our believes and our world(s) the way we want to ‘experience’ it and hopefully it indeed will bring each and everyone of us that what we seek.

To select experience from ALL, ALL uncreated, is effectively no different than creating from possibilites. Creation and completeness are equivalent.

Does one create the real numbers or are they effectively selected from the continuum -inf to inf? Even so, total freedom of choice on the line is afforded and would appear as a creative act from another perspective.

Although I think it’s more likely it will bring us what we NEED. So that we are able to understand what happens IN and AROUND us and in a way that we are able to learn ….. but even that’s, of course, a FREE choice.

Some might say we already have everything but we just don't remember that!

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Thank you for that neat reply.

Me don’t believe that Consciousness and Soul are imaginary at all It’s the core essence of the God flame (particle) we carry in our body & energy field (aura).

I ponder a lot about whether ‘ALL is in the ALL or / and the ALL is in ALL’ but it makes me running in circles ….. or better said: it’s like an ant running over a flipping coin from one side to the other

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Someone just didn't understand something properly when they put it into words.

Totally agree! The Bible is full of parables and paradoxes but even so an interesting book to read (& study).

All are.

Yes because ALL IS In that case: PLS Beam me up Scotty, so I can meet my Master.

If ‘obtaining evidence of the paranormal is evidence of a creator’ then I know for sure there is ONE.

I’m glad you ( and some others on ATS) sympathize with my dilemma, it makes me feel less alone with my experiences.

To select experience from ALL, ALL uncreated, is effectively no different than creating from possibilites. Creation and completeness are equivalent.

Isn’t the Path that we choose equivalent with creating from Possibilities? I would like to know where does that leave us with taking responsibility for our actions (choices).

Some might say we already have everything but we just don't remember that!

Couldn’t agree more on that. We have EVERYTHING and most people only want more and more and more, esp. on the material level. It makes me so sad when I think about that ……

Namaste!

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurius, 341 BCE - 270 BCE.

Just because evil exists as a biproduct of creation, it does not mean that God intends for evil to be used. He intended on peace. However, because He gave US ---free will---, we make the choice as to which we use. Do we choose peace or do we choose evil? In other words, do we choose selflessness or do we choose selfishness?

Epicurius didn't know even the basics about God. Interesting that anyone would believe what Epicurius has to say about God.

When we sin and do not acknowledge His existence and accept His assistance, then we ourselves have chosen to remove His hand of protection. It is something that we get only if we accept it. If we do not have His hand of protection, then what prevents us from calamity? What prevents us from suffering? NOTHING. For we are physical and calamity is a result of the natural way of things and suffering is a result of the natural way of things. For there to be good, there must be these things. However, God's hand of protection, for as long as we decide to receive it, has the power to overcome all of these calamities.

But the time has come that so very few have God's hand of protection upon them that the entire world will soon suffer a wrath which is brought upon themselves.

Also, as a side note --- Epicurius is dead. He suffered and has failed to live beyond 270 BCE to be exact. Where is -his- god? My God lives.

Someone once said how can you measure happiness if there is no sadness, calmness if there is no anger, how will you know if your feeling good if you haven't felt pain.

Everything is placed as a barrier to be accomplished. If you think about it in a philosophical way than we are taking on barriers everyday. Getting up in the morning is an obstacle when your tired, taking the next steps are barriers of gravity, and etc.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Someone once said how can you measure happiness if there is no sadness, calmness if there is no anger, how will you know if your feeling good if you haven't felt pain.

Of course I've heard this many times as well. I thought of a retort to it- a temperature metaphor but it should illustrate the point. Absolute zero never had to exist in the universe to be able to know where on the scale it should exist. Only the potential needed to be there, not the actualization.

Heeding the up and downs of the degrees as they occurred allowed zero to be discerned without actualizing the full range, without hitting the bottom.

In our universe life comes from pre-existing life. That is a fact.

At one time people believed in "spontaneous generation" which was proven false by science. Yet, many want to believe that there is no Creator, life simply appeared one sunny day.

And of course, life simply followed millions of paths to form plants and animals that live in a symbiotic relationship to one another, creating a biosphere which recycles and sustains a global life support system. Can someone please explain plants to me? Whats up with that? Did they grow legs and crawl to land a few years before the four legged fish? What a remarkable coincidence! That first animal was so lucky! Cause he must of been starving after the belly crawl to land (I am sure glad he didn't hog it all and saved some for the rest of us!).

Ninety percent of the universe is said to be made up of "Dark Matter" or "Dark Energy" which of course we don't understand.

Hey, next time you are dissecting that frog in your biology class or the cadaver in med school. Think about the life force that was in that creature. What is it? Where does it come from? Where does it go? Ask your professor. Science doesn't have that worked out yet.

We have yet to explore the known universe, but here on ATS, some are absolutely, positively, really, really, sure there is no Creator.............





[edit on 20-1-2010 by dusty1]

[edit on 20-1-2010 by dusty1]

issac newton sure did believe he exists

Originally posted by thakiddd
issac newton sure did believe he exists

That is good and well. But you and I are not Isaac Newton.

You and I have to make the choices for ourselves.

We need to stop putting these "brilliant minds" on a pedestal and start realizing the potential brilliance of our own minds.

If you need a more brilliant mind to observe, then maybe GOD is your best bet?

If you are looking for technological minds, then you seek something relatively pointless.

Anyone who is fascinated by the fact that light has been tied into knots has forgotten that while the economy is failing, scientists are wasting money tying light into knots.

1) God's creation
2) Bible
3) Conscience

These three things prove God's existence.

Originally posted by sara09
1) God's creation - Not created - evolved
2) Bible - A book which could have been written by person(s)
3) Conscience - - evolution

These three things do not prove God's existence.

Fix'd

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by sara09
1) God's creation - Not created - evolved
2) Bible - A book which could have been written by person(s)
3) Conscience - - evolution

These three things do not prove God's existence.

Fix'd

edit on 16-7-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

"There are two things I know that go to infinity. The universe and the stupidity of man. I'm not real sure about the universe ".

Albert Einstien