Does God Exist? - Einstein

Originally posted by SugarCube
reply to post by spy66

 

The question of 'zero' is as much about 'nothing' as 'everything'. You cannot have one thing without the other since they are contextually bound - i.e. zero is the absence of something else.

If we consider 'nothingness' in an extreme sense, then we are actually talking about 'everything' since that 'nothing' defines the boundary of all that is, even though it appears as 'nothing'.

If we talk about absolute nothingness, then we have to talk about the infinity of what it represents. When we're counting beans, sure, 'zero' is relatively easy to define (although interestingly it took a while for humans to bother defining it for the purposes of every day life), but when we're talking about the essence of the Universe the it gets interesting.

It leads us to the question, could the Universe come from nothing? If not then we try to explain it with a 'creator', but is this being fair to 'nothing'. In the extremes of nothing and the infinity of all co-existing within the same state, does one thing preclude the other?

When we use simple terms of measurement, we could say that you cannot make a bean soup without beans (discounting man-made alternatives such as Styrofoam™), but we cannot say that you cannot create a universe from absolute nothing... can we?

Surely we restrict ourselves by considering 'nothing' in 4 dimensional terms? If we expand our vision we could conceive that a conversion of 'something' beyond 'nothing' is capable of creating the dimensional attributes that we can then perceive?

Just a thought...

Well your on to it but then you get lost. When you say that we talk about existence appearing out of nothing. We have to apply a God to explain it all.

God is just a name of the source. Its Very important to focus on that. God is not a person. But it can be a source with a mind of its own. Just like our composition of energy gives us a function and a creative mind. And animals and insects another.

God is the source that made our existence happen. God is the energy that created our composition of energies. By creating existence in stages from a beginning.

Existence is the result of a compression of Space/Pure energy "God".
Life is a result of the expansion of existence. Life is created by the expansion of energy.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

God does not exist.

The deaths of over 2000 of them by religion proves it.

reply to post by spy66
I don't see why we must attribute the beginning of the universe to a creator. The beginning is a mental 'no go area' in the sense that we can't comprehend 'something out of nothing.' It's infinity and mobius thinking that really challenge us. That we are here indicates that everything must have started at some point. That 'point' is possibly unknowable as it leads us to one of two conclusions that fly in the face of comprehension and Laws of Physics...

1, Something came from nothing.
2, There's no beginning.

This position doesn't require a creator and the evidence of that position is key to astrophysics etc. Spiritually, philosophically and empirically, it's a great way to build a headache.

Supposing that a Creator designed the Universe adds more complexity. Where did it come from? Did it spring from nowhere? The answers to these questions lead to more complicated questions and that jiggery-pokery again....and we're still left with those two 'impossible' positions!!

It's not surprising that even the greatest intellects continue to battle for understanding.

Sadly, we are not equipt with the instinct that comforts us with understanding why we as human beings exist.

Most of our Ancestors and ourselves not speaking for all, have inherited a God, or a source of the why we are here, Studies suggest this is healthy for most men and women, since it fills the void and gives us a purpose.

From what I can figure out, I can say with confidence their is a GOD, or a creator, the what, why, and how, are questions I will not even ignorantly try to answer.

I have come to a age to where i entertain the idea's I see, from numorous brilliant Authors, but all in all, we will never know who is right or wrong, no matter how technologically advanced we get, all we can do with our science is understand the language of logic, but digging deeper their are allot of answers ahem in religion to those hard questions science cannot answer, only differance is you cannot prove those answers..

Not to mention anyone who comes close to this complex question, will prob. be persecuted and killed or tortured like copernicus.



[edit on 17-1-2010 by Bicent76]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by spy66

 

I don't see why we must attribute the beginning of the universe to a creator. The beginning is a mental 'no go area' in the sense that we can't comprehend 'something out of nothing.' It's infinity and mobius thinking that really challenge us. That we are here indicates that everything must have started at some point. That 'point' is possibly unknowable as it leads us to one of two conclusions that fly in the face of comprehension and Laws of Physics...

1, Something came from nothing.
2, There's no beginning.

This position doesn't require a creator and the evidence of that position is key to astrophysics etc. Spiritually, philosophically and empirically, it's a great way to build a headache.

Supposing that a Creator designed the Universe adds more complexity. Where did it come from? Did it spring from nowhere? The answers to these questions lead to more complicated questions and that jiggery-pokery again....and we're still left with those two 'impossible' positions!!

It's not surprising that even the greatest intellects continue to battle for understanding.

I am not saying that the great thinker have it wrong. Its we who dont understand their knowledge.

To be able to see any of this you first have to figure out what you know about the meaning of infinite and finite.

If infinite is everything that exists. Then existence can't be something else then what it is made up of "The original source".
Existence can't exist anywhere else than smack in the middle of everything"The infinite".

Existence cant disappear because everything takes up all space. Existence becomes a finite because its state is different then the state of the original source"everything".

If we are in the middle of everything. And created by everything. Then it must have been done by a compression. Because of the solid states that exist and the emitted energies that separate them. By observation we know that all energy solids are expanding/emitting energy. By observation we see that the universes are expanding. And in the end existence will become like the original source that created it.

]Originally posted by randyvs
Let them draw their conclusions. They can not claim God does not exist it
doesn't fly. People of the Ancients did all the monumental work they
did because some shaaman licked a frogs butt, freaked out runnin around the tundra, then when he came down, he had some philosophy he told
everyone about. Then the notion was so popular it went global.
That explains where we're at today?
Why if man evolved did he evolve with this wacked out notion that
would pss off all the really really smart guys.

You're so uneducated about anthropology it's disgusting. Did you graduate high school even?

The idea of religion came before any civilization or shaaman. Therefore, it didnt actually travel very far to go "global" as civilizations at the time were not spread around the globe, but all bunched up in africa and europe. You should also understand that the idea of a religion predates the homo sapien species. Homo erectus showed signs of a religious belief with the articulate burying of the dead. The idea of a god was most likely due to unexplainable things such as storms, sunsets, moon phases, etc. the idea of an afterlife was most likely created to comfort the deceased's family and the rest of the community. It was also probably initiated when civilizations started to fight one another. Dying doesn't seem so bad if you believe you're going to paradise.

But, assuming you're right and god exists, I do have a message for him:

Hey god, thanks for the wisdom teeth, moron. Maybe when you created us out of your own image you couldve had the decency to give us either larger mouths so all our teeth could fit, or less teeth.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Schmidt1989]

Here's some food for thought..


This creation you I, and alll that we know that is, is like someone making a car or some other invention, everything works in order to maintain its shape. But outside of that creation their are other laws of existance. So what i am saying is we can understand how a car or whatever works, but away from that their are other laws, or other things that exist. Just because we can understand ourselves our earth our universe par se, that does not mean we understand the void or the area we exist in.

I have seen things that defy physics, and in order to try to make sense of this i have had to try to understand the what, would allow such rules to be broken..



Finally it is very hard to say you understand this better then your fellow brother or sister. Instead of focusing on how it sounds from another we should focus on the problem of not trully understanding the origins or the why we exist.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
[quote=randyvs]

But, assuming you're right and god exists, I do have a message for him:

Hey god, thanks for the wisdom teeth, moron. Maybe when you created us out of your own image you couldve had the decency to give us either larger mouths so all our teeth could fit, or less teeth.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Schmidt1989]

Man. And you talk about finishing school. In other words you finished school, but you never paid attention.

Your message to God lol.

You are a good example of those who dont understand what they read.

You imagine that God looked in the mirror and said. Hay i have to create more humans that look like me.
That's your knowledge of what you read. Why do you credit our believes with your knowledge. When you know that what you say is foolish. And makes no sense.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
So we're supposed to observe that a 10 year old saying that is a genius. Surely Einstein was a genius. But, darkness is the absence of light, it doesn't exist on it's own... cold is the absence of heat, it doesn't exist on it's own...

with the idea of dark matter and dark energy still not completely understood by anyone, laymen and physicists alike, then i'd say that it's possible that darkness DOES exist in some way beyond just being the absence of light.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. At 10 years old (what i'm estimating the kid in the video to be) once you are taught those basic physics, it's easy to understand.

Einstein was born in 1879.
we know, and obviously YOU KNOW, a lot more than what was known over one hundred years ago. the world does not stand still.

Both sides are so sure that they know whos right its kind of funny

Untill we know every wavelength of light and particles, know what dark matter and dark energy really is, we will never be close to knowing of anything about the universe. Also the funny thing I think is that a lot of skeptics use the big bang to disprove god, when in reality a priest made up the big bang theory. It was flawed at first, but then it was later to be accepted.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
[quote=randyvs]

But, assuming you're right and god exists, I do have a message for him:

Hey god, thanks for the wisdom teeth, moron. Maybe when you created us out of your own image you couldve had the decency to give us either larger mouths so all our teeth could fit, or less teeth.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Schmidt1989]

Man. And you talk about finishing school. In other words you finished school, but you never paid attention.

Your message to God lol.

You are a good example of those who dont understand what they read.

You imagine that God looked in the mirror and said. Hay i have to create more humans that look like me.
That's your knowledge of what you read. Why do you credit our believes with your knowledge. When you know that what you say is foolish. And makes no sense.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Oh I paid attention. I'm currently in college studying religion in anthropology. It's why i joined the thread.

Sorry, not Einstein.
www.snopes.com...

If you would like to quote Einstein I suggest you start here

1. Albert Einstein: From a Jesuit Viewpoint, I am an Atheist I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. - Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism; quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2 2. Albert Einstein: Skepticism & Freethought Proceeded from Seeing Falsehood of Bib Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. Mistrust of every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude toward the convictions that were alive in any specific social environment - an attitude that has never again left me, even though, later on, it has been tempered by a better insight into the causal connections. - Albert Einstein, Autobiographical Notes, edited by Paul Arthur Schilpp 3. Albert Einstein in Defense of Bertrand Russell Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly. - Albert Einstein, letter to Morris Raphael Cohen, professor emeritus of philosophy at the College of the City of New York, March 19, 1940. Einstein is defending the appointment of Bertrand Russell to a teaching position. 4. Albert Einstein: Few People Escape the Prejudices of their Environment Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions. - Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions (1954) 5. Albert Einstein: Human Value Depends on Liberation from the Self The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained to liberation from the self. - Albert Einstein, The World As I See It (1949) 6. Albert Einstein: Nonbelievers Can Be Bigoted Like Believers The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein, quoted in: Einstein's God - Albert Einstein's Quest as a Scientist and as a Jew to Replace a Forsaken God (1997) 7. Albert Einstein: I am Not a Crusading, Professional Atheist I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being. - Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2 Albert Einstein on Gods & Supernatural Beliefs * Albert Einstein Quotes on a Personal God: Einstein Denied Personal Gods, Prayer * Albert Einstein Quotes on Immoral Gods: How Are Popular Gods so Immoral? * Albert Einstein Quotes on Life After Death: Einstein Denied an Afterlife Albert Einstein on Science, Religion, and Ethics * Einstein's Criticisms of Religions: Einstein was Very Critical of Religion * Einstein Quotes on Science & Religion: Do Science and Religion Always Conflict? * Einstein Quotes on Ethics & Morality: Humans, not Gods, Define Morality Related Articles * Albert Einstein Quotations: Albert Einstein on Science, God, Religion - Was... * Albert Einstein on Science, God, and Religion: Was Albert Einstein an Athei... * Albert Einstein Quotes on a Personal God: Einstein Denied Personal Gods, Pr... * Einstein Quotes on Ethics & Morality: Humans, not Gods, Define Morality - A... * Einstein's Criticisms of Religions: Einstein was Very Critical of Relig...

reply to post by Ziltoid_the_Omniscient


sources can be found here
atheism.about.com... n-Atheist-.htm

Originally posted by Schmidt1989

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
[quote=randyvs]

But, assuming you're right and god exists, I do have a message for him:

Hey god, thanks for the wisdom teeth, moron. Maybe when you created us out of your own image you couldve had the decency to give us either larger mouths so all our teeth could fit, or less teeth.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Schmidt1989]

Man. And you talk about finishing school. In other words you finished school, but you never paid attention.

Your message to God lol.

You are a good example of those who dont understand what they read.

You imagine that God looked in the mirror and said. Hay i have to create more humans that look like me.
That's your knowledge of what you read. Why do you credit our believes with your knowledge. When you know that what you say is foolish. And makes no sense.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Oh I paid attention. I'm currently in college studying religion in anthropology. It's why i joined the thread.

Ok.
I hope it gives you the right understanding in the future. So that you can get a more objective whew of everything.

reply to post by DXFILMS


That video just smacks of religious propaganda to me - perhaps Arthur C Clarke had it right all along:

"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion".

Arthur C. Clarke.

Purposefully misrepresenting the idea that goodness/kindness/moral integrity is somehow mutualy exclusive to belief in organised religion - just so they can teach dogma, doctrine and superstition to young impressionable minds.

This is a new low even for them.



As for Einstein - I don't think he would have agreed either

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish".

Albert Einstein

www.guardian.co.uk...

I'm all for people believing what they want - I just think organised religious opinions should be kept firmly behind the doors of their respective temples and have very little else to do with society -particularly when it comes to education, politics or law-making.

Until someone can come up with a single scrap of evidence to support the (quite fantastical) claims made by organised religion then why should their opinions be taught in schools at all?

How can you mark an exam on god when noone knows any of the answers?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

No, absense of evidence is not evidence of absense won't cut it. It's really the same thing. Likewise, absense of evidence is consistent with actual absense.

You know very well the oft used retort deserves to be oft used.
Mainly because it isn't the same thing. It is the very truth of the oft
used cleche you refer to, I guess so you can retort to that in it's stead.
It assigns with great accuracy, the wildness of the statement, God does not
exist. k? I suggest that anyone who makes such a claim has no idea of the
magnitude of what they are talking about. It is stupid for anyone to walk around spouting God does not exist.
Do you have a clue why?

BECAUSE THEY CANT KNOW THAT.

Nobody does. The very fact that there is even a concept of God is evidence
their is one. Why would human beings who just evolved, evolve with a
belief in a creator? I mean whats up with that? No it is STUPID to say God does not exist.

Not asking you to prove anything.
Just quit saying things that prove a lack of true knowledge.
Everytime someone says God does not exist they deserve ti hear the oft
used retort.
Have you ever noticed that the Bible presents no arguement for the existence of God. It just runs straight away from the beginning and never once considers that there would someday be doubt. Because it is that
obvious to the uncluttered mind.
SnF






[edit on 17-1-2010 by randyvs]

all that a concept of "god" proves is that there is a concept of god, nothing more. the mind conceives of a universe, and then has to ascribe its existence to a "god". it feels lost and alone and uncomfortable, so it invents sustenance.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
He sounds like the occult writers in some way...probably trained himself. It's cute but not quite correct. Maybe he just wanted to mess with the prof's head.

I mean, it says so:

Isaiah 45:6-7
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by EnlightenUp]

I knew I read that somewhere ..... God created ALL. So he must indeed have created Light and Darkness. Does GOD exist? I think so, not as a solitary entity though .... but more as a Lifeforce Energy, that is in ALL and EVERYTHING....

The vid is an advert and it shows what Einstein possibly could have said to his teacher. Let's not forget that his parents came from a Jewish community and he was brought up with Jewish beliefs.

I often say that the Light exists by grace of the darkness
HOW else could we be able to SEE Light if there was NO darkness?

In the Universe everything has a purpose: Suns, planets, whole starsystems, galaxies, milkyways and even dark matter like black holes are necessary to gain Balance in all this.

I use to study Kabbalah and they say that we have to choose for the Light to make the Light grow till there is nothing but Light. It got me thinking that this can't refer to our material dimension because in the material worlds there is a need of BALANCE.

So gaining more Light is necessary to grow Spiritually

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Melyanna Tengwesta]

We are born not knowing about gods or God. Until someone puts the idea to us, there's no concept of one.

I can challenge this statement. When I was four years old, I distinctly remember looking at the sun in the sky and thinking about how it was a ball that my father threw up into the sky and it kept going. I had never been to church, nor did my parents ever talk about God. Consequently, I believe that the concept of God to explain things is already going through our minds at a young age, at least some of us.

Yes,G0d exsist.therefor IAM

reply to post by Jim Scott


You thought that because we are born with a predisposition to believe that everything has been created for a reason. As you grow older and your intelligence increases, some people choose to continue to believe that everything was created with a purpose, while some choose to abandon the childish belief and accept that the "ball in the sky" was not created for us with a purpose, based on the fact that we naturally know what the sun is and that it is not special or exclusive to us in the universe.

[edit on 1/17/2010 by Schmidt1989]