Women are Men, and vice-versa

Another way of looking at this is... throughout most of our history together we have lived very separate lives, which has shaped us into 'different' people with very different skill-sets and ways of approaching life's challenges and getting along in the world.

It's not until WW2 that women for the first time took on men's work in supporting the war effort... and now we have women on the frontlines. Women went from being CEOs of their households to CEOs of fortune 500 companies. Running companies and killing people for a living can sculpt a person. Much like raising a child, cooking and cleaning can sculpt a person. The reason we are seeing more men expressing typical feminine characteristics i.e. nurturing, empathy and a appreciation for nature/art... and see more women expressing typical masculine characteristics i.e. assertiveness, aggression, ambition ... is because we are more and more sharing the burden of performing each others traditional type-casted jobs/tasks.

As a result we are learning more from each other then ever before... and becoming more well rounded people with more to offer the world and one another. What comes with this is a realization that we are more alike then different... we are practically the same. The differences that everyone keeps bringing up are just an expression of a narrow state of being/possibilities... which most of us are still stuck in. What i have been noting are those who are growing/learning/adapting in a world that increasingly embraces more possibilities/opportunites for both men and women.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

I too must disagree. I think you must pay closer attention to your own signature and understand that it works both ways and that it's completely "natural" for most men and women to be different and in some respects often opposite.

It is because we ARE different that the human race is surviving, not the other way round.

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned girls and their "tales of princess/frog and beauty/beast.", the search for a "protector" and "saviour".....but boys have their equivalents don't they? Princes, knights and being the "protectors" and "saviours". Both sexes are brought up on Fantasy, not just females. Taking the toys away won't take away the natural dependances we have on eachother.

Ying Yang my friend. It's deep inside us and part of something older than loincloths.

It's why you are here, don't knock it, accept it and embrace it, but trying to redefine our whole species to make it seem like a lost reality is blinding you from the fact that we ARE different and that's why we belong together.

And to say we look and behave the same at birth and that it is a "facade" is rediculous. Do you suppose that humans don't share any similarities with the rest of the animal kingdom?

We are more different at birth than many species I could name and moreso at birth than some animals through their entire lives, but they still play their part according to "nature" without needing to question their role in the world or be taught with toys.

Not only are men and women different, but we have the amazing ability to be completely individual from everyone else too.

I love my dangly bits and I like the fact that they attract me to female wobbly bits. Wouldn't have it any other way. It wouldn't feel natural for me.

Great post, but I don't agree with your theory. Sorry.

reply to post by nerbot

I'm not suggesting that the attraction of dangly bits for wobbly bits or visa versa will ever change. Those who are gay/lesbian and/or bi-sexual may make it appear as if this is the case, but what is really taking place is that they are choosing to be honest with themselves and others.

Our interdependence as you put it, is no longer of use to us. Still in tribal and third world countries such dependence on one another is still a necessity for survival... but in a modern society such as ours the dependence on one another is like an able bodied person using a cane, crutch, walker or wheel-chair when they could walk more easily and efficiently without.

The past is the past, and i honor it, i only knock it in our current day because it no longer serves our best interests. What i am advocating is an embrace of our similarities, this is what will caring us all forward. Women on the frontiers of science and space... and men on the inner most frontiers of their hearts and minds.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Originally posted by The Blind Eye
What i am advocating is an embrace of our similarities, this is what will caring us all forward.

You are also advocating a denial of our differences.

Women on the frontiers of science and space...

Which they have been and are.

and men on the inner most frontiers of their hearts and minds.

Which they have been and are.

Please do some research.

reply to post by nerbot

Strange reply, seems a bit passive aggressive...

all i am suggesting is for us to drop our dogmas and embrace our future... which is to acknowledge that we are more as a sum of our parts, not as a ying yang puzzle but as equally capable partners in each of our abilities to meet head on all challenges that life has to offer. Is that really such a bad concept to advocate... or do you prefer that we all live apart of our lives as a reflection of a black and white movie?

reply to post by The Blind Eye


I think our Creator was having a laugh - men and women have completely different brains and ways of viewing the world.

It is a challenge for men and women to stay together for a lifetime -pretty difficult, at least, to do so happily.

I read recently of a great custom in Indonesia, I think it was, where when a woman is giving birth, the man ties a string around his testicles and gives the string to the women so she can yank and cause him pain when she is in pain.

Now, that is togetherness! I challenge men all over the world to do this! (I am not holding out much hope here).

reply to post by learningtofly

lmao... well i suppose that's one way of getting down to the physics...
a crude attempt at 'leveling the playing field'.

Still i can't stress it enough, minus the whole hormonal roller coaster, biological clock and giving birth... there are very few experiences and lessons we don't/can't share. Though there are comparable mood swings, internal drives and excruciating pains that men have experienced through the throes of war.


[edit on 24-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Yes, indeed, war has a lot to answer for. Women have to bear it as well because they lose their men, and their children which is the worst pain ever inflicted on anyone, I think, they also witness unspeakable things, and they have to cope with their damaged men.

We all know war is evil but even women are not smart enough to end war, let alone men (just kidding).

Seriously, mankind was born to fight - other men, women, animals - which is why I think someone up there is just having a lot of fun at our expense.

Originally posted by learningtofly
Seriously, mankind was born to fight - other men, women, animals - which is why I think someone up there is just having a lot of fun at our expense.

You reminded me of a song; Blasphemous Rumours by Depeche Mode
... with the apropos chorus line:

I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours
But I think that God's got a sick sense of humor
And when I die I expect to find Him laughing

As for this role reversal, now men can experience the heart break of having their wives die in a war or die of a heart attack while trading stocks on the board of trade... or even run off with a younger man

Such experiences will make them want to open up to other men with similar experiences, in turn become more comfortable in sharing/disclosing their innermost feelings... and develop the interpersonal skills that most men have lacked through out the ages.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Men and Women are a duality but opposites, imagine light without day or up without down. You could never really appreciate a Man if you had nothing to compare him to

Originally posted by The Blind Eye
all i am suggesting is for us to drop our dogmas and embrace our future...

That's just WAY too idealistic to ever happen. Maybe you should try explaining that concept in the Religious or Political forums here to find out.

not as a ying yang puzzle

Yin yang is only a puzzle if one doesn't understand the concept. Wiki Clicky

Yin yang are complementary opposites within a greater whole. Everything has both yin and yang aspects, although yin or yang elements may manifest more strongly in different objects or at different times. Yin yang constantly interacts, never existing in absolute stasis. The concept of yin and yang is often symbolized by various forms of the Taijitu symbol, for which it is probably best known in western cultures.

Are you seriously suggesting that humanity tries to work towards denying or ignoring something so fundemental that IS the world around and within us. Ignorance IS NOT bliss.

but as equally capable partners in each of our abilities

Capabilities and the ability to perform them will ALWAYS be a culmination of almost infinate degrees depending on each individual and could never be equal. Not among gender or each person.

Why do you think the olympics have seperate men's and women's events, and how many posters have discussed things like childbirth here? Something that has a profound effect on a life from start to finish and depends entirely on gender.

Did you not understand any of what was said?

Is that really such a bad concept to advocate... or do you prefer that we all live apart of our lives as a reflection of a black and white movie?

Even a black and white movie contains endless shades of grey.

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I get the feeling you are trying to justify your own insecurities by attempting to convince people that what you believe is right.

I, and many others think you are wrong.

Maybe you should accept that your answer lies not in a future where men are women and vice-versa, but in the present where acceptance and understanding of our differeces is the key to a balanced human future.

Yin Yang

Originally posted by nerbot
I get the feeling you are trying to justify your own insecurities by attempting to convince people that what you believe is right.

This might be your impression, because my proposal is not a popular one among the masses who have bought into the belief that we are more different then the same. This requires of me a little extra effort in bringing up as many examples/angles as possible, to help people understand what i'm talking about. As you may have noticed, very few people question the status quo.

I, and many others think you are wrong.

If i always went with the herd, i wouldn't be here. You should know being an ATSer that 'popular' doesn't auto equate to 'right'... nor does an 'unpopular' idea/perspective/observation auto equate to 'wrong'.

Maybe you should accept that your answer lies not in a future where men are women and vice-versa, but in the present where acceptance and understanding of our differeces is the key to a balanced human future. ... Yin Yang

The future is now, i have already shared many examples of how we are growing/evolving through a more well rounded expression of who we are. No longer should we define women as emotional and men analytical... for we know better now, that men can be just as emotional as women and women are just as capable of being as analytical as men. More and more we see proof of this fact, it's not a matter of me 'believing' i just simply know by basic observation.

This whole notion you have of the sexes being ying yang is external... mine is internal.


[edit on 24-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

genders fundamentally represent existance choices conditions of living in lies

it is like if nature is the mother of lie choice by meaning to invent positive states in any situation that existance creations is the source, it is that assertion saying that fake existance through creation is very positive as a base to justify freedom of life nature realisation for superior creator definitive existance

and god is the father of lie choice, by inventing justifications that assert his freedom as superior to any fact of existance creations, prooving it by destroying its realities, which is to assert the base of his possessions being for his definitive absolute life

so they agree on a lot of things and that is why in humans genders are from the begining even never an issue
they are both opportunist willing the ends and never looking to the sources, so they are both basically in humans bodies conditions against the fact of being true and meaning always the only source of their being creations lies positive ends

but of course no gods could kill the truth, and that is why too a lot of humans evolved to objective positive choice without meaning inventions ends or lies powers sources, but then men and women they simply choose humanity objective reality life, objective or reality concept is itself life absolutely, so they become the spirit of the perspective to what positive free life is, so of same reference out of genders divisions, and from that same reality life base they become one living according to their own free definitions of being existing real with the whole reality life abstraction or direct positive living sense through experience inn

what they love to call yin and yang is to their love to be in lies bases justifications of life choice

zero is basically the absolute reality of certainty which is reality truth
a conscious of that objective reality is a free reality that could mean its own free absolute reality too justifications of reality truth abstraction absolutely

but god invented the ends of creations lies life by breaking down the principles of zero absolute freedom reality creating clear definitions of opposites that refer to zero absolute reality base

killing positive truth reality in all existance realities ends as well as any opportunity of true freedom consciousness reality life

ying became all positive drives realisations of lies ends possibilities, and yang became all negative rejections to realities lies ends meaning being the real superior free

reply to post by imans


imans with all do respect, i don't know a flying pig what you're trying to say. lol ... but i can recognize a stellar effort when i see one, and i do appreciate that. If i had to guess what you are saying... it would be, that we are not our bodies and therefore not our gender and that we shouldn't buy into the lies perpetuated by the institutions that be i.e. media, religion, goc, that we are our bodies/gender... ?

reply to blind eyes fundantions

no not really what i meant, i never have any particular means beside what i say, there is no message intention in what i write

besides humans could be their genders when it is their choice, the major point is freedom sources and ends that justify any existing fact or any sense of living, and that is why it becomes fundamental to justify freedom being the source of all existance and its ends to truth life