Women are Men, and vice-versa

Minus the slight plumbing, hormonal and chromosome differences, we are basically the same. Though every where you look, the media and "authorities" try to convince us that we are polar opposites, to the point that we are different species, or even from different planets i.e. Men are from Mars, & Women are from Venus. Now there are plenty of examples of how men and women approach life's challenges differently, but most of this can be attributed to nurture, not nature.

What i find most disturbing is how we take sides and try to manipulate one another into an ideal, as if their is some kind of conversion game or battle to be won. i.e. The Rules book series. The notion that men are dogs and women are divine, is a gross distortion... the lesson that is lost in this arrogant/ignorant point of view, is that one gender is typically culturally raised in reality versus another in fantasy. i.e. girls brought up on tales of princess/frog and beauty/beast.

The other aspect of these manufactured differences, can be explained by conspiracy. It's no secret that men have used religion through out history to control women... and still many societies buy into the man as the "master" in turn convincing women to live sub-servant lives (i.e. polygamists) but even in the secular world women are still seen as less intelligent which is a misread of gullibility/naivety. Men still to this day use the old tricks of magical thinking in courting a woman spinning romantic notions of 'love at first sight" and "soul-mates" to full fill their cardinal desires.

When reviewing "alternative life styles" in sexual orientation of attraction and dress, it becomes clearer as the lines are erased how much we are alike versus different and puts to into question many of our preconceived ideas that we have inherited from the collective baggage of our forefathers.

I open all of this and more for further inquiry and discussion. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on these matters and related.

Women and men are different in a lot of ways, however, in the far future because we don't have the knowledge now, it may be possible for a man to have a brain transplant into a woman's body and vise versa. Also when cloning is perfected, it may be possible to clone yourself and promote the genes and hormones to create a body of the opposite sex and then have a brain transplant into that body that is a true clone copy of yourself yet only a version in the opposite sex. But that's for a future time if Earth lasts that long. Brain transplantation has been successfully done before in animals, but not perfected for humans.

I have to disagree here. As a man, or young man, (18) (although I'm not claiming to be experienced ) women and men really are different creatures, and, contrary to your example of women being "more gullible" I've found that, overall, women are more grounded in reality, whereas men tend to be aloof and are mislead easily.

I think this has something to do with the fact that, generally speaking, there are, in a given society, more men than women, which might account for their more mature nature, since a woman will get hit on and notice far more than a man does.

I also disagree that things like "love at first sight" and "soul-mates" are "old tricks." Yeah, they might be old, but they're not tricks. That's an incredibly close-minded thing to say, I don't know if you've ever been in love, but it sure doesn't feel like a trick to either person, I would say.

Although I don't care what gay people do, I do care if they do it in front of me. I think I can leave it at that, and still keep things decent.

To be clear, I agree with your other sentiments though.

Originally posted by Sickle_And_Hammer
I have to disagree here. As a man, or young man, (18) (although I'm not claiming to be experienced

) women and men really are different creatures, and, contrary to your example of women being "more gullible" I've found that, overall, women are more grounded in reality, whereas men tend to be aloof and are mislead easily.

If you were to note how men are more likely to be lead by their head then their heart and women are more likely to be lead by their heart then their head, this should give you a more accurate view of what i mean by women having a tendency to be "more gullible"... because they are lead by their hearts more often then men.

I think this has something to do with the fact that, generally speaking, there are, in a given society, more men than women, which might account for their more mature nature, since a woman will get hit on and notice far more than a man does.

Not sure what you mean exactly, does the experience of being hit on make you more mature?

I also disagree that things like "love at first sight" and "soul-mates" are "old tricks." Yeah, they might be old, but they're not tricks. That's an incredibly close-minded thing to say, I don't know if you've ever been in love, but it sure doesn't feel like a trick to either person, I would say.

I don't think what you feel is an accurate gauge in determining if an experience is based on something real or phony. Sure there are may circumstances where both parties are equally head over heals for one another, so we wouldn't call it a "trick" but more of a "trip"... like a high/intoxication.



[edit on 14-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Our preconceived ideas can be filtering:

There is a popular perception that the psychological difference between men and women is substantial ...
And there are stereotypes, such as women being more emotional than men, or men having better spatial awareness.

But Dr Hyde, writing in American Psychologist, says her review of 46 meta-analyses (which cover a number of studies) conducted over the last 20 years, shows men and women are alike in the majority of areas.

The studies looked at cognitive abilities, verbal and nonverbal communication, social or psychological traits like aggression or leadership, psychological well-being like self-esteem and motor behaviours, such as throwing ability and moral reasoning.

Dr Hyde said gender differences accounted for either no or a very small effect for most of the psychological variables examined.

source: news.bbc.co.uk...

Another observation worth reflecting on;

We come into this world looking and behaving the same. Nearly impossible to distinguish a boy from a girl unless you take a peak in a diaper. The differences from day one through to our childhood are mostly superficial. Dressed in either pink or blue and given either dolls or trucks to play with and given names depending on our gender.. We really don't start to show any difference in body and behavior until we reach puberty. and even then most of the behavior can be credited to one's environment. Reaching midlife the conditioning is complete and we see the most differences expressed through the identities we model/inherit from our culture. It's not until we reach older age that we start to gradually shed many of these facades in act, dress and physical appearance... till again it's nearly impossible to distinguish a boy from a girl.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Originally posted by The Blind Eye
Minus the slight plumbing, hormonal and chromosome differences, we are basically the same. Though every where you look, the media and "authorities" try to convince us that we are polar opposites, to the point that we are different species, or even from different planets i.e. Men are from Mars, & Women are from Venus. Now there are plenty of examples of how men and women approach life's challenges differently, but most of this can be attributed to nurture, not nature.

What i find most disturbing is how we take sides and try to manipulate one another into an ideal, as if their is some kind of conversion game or battle to be won. i.e. The Rules book series. The notion that men are dogs and women are divine, is a gross distortion... the lesson that is lost in this arrogant/ignorant point of view, is that one gender is typically culturally raised in reality versus another in fantasy. i.e. girls brought up on tales of princess/frog and beauty/beast.

The other aspect of these manufactured differences, can be explained by conspiracy. It's no secret that men have used religion through out history to control women... and still many societies buy into the man as the "master" in turn convincing women to live sub-servant lives (i.e. polygamists) but even in the secular world women are still seen as less intelligent which is a misread of gullibility/naivety. Men still to this day use the old tricks of magical thinking in courting a woman spinning romantic notions of 'love at first sight" and "soul-mates" to full fill their cardinal desires.

When reviewing "alternative life styles" in sexual orientation of attraction and dress, it becomes clearer as the lines are erased how much we are alike versus different and puts to into question many of our preconceived ideas that we have inherited from the collective baggage of our forefathers.

I open all of this and more for further inquiry and discussion. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on these matters and related.

if men and women are so alike, why can't men give birth? the fact we can't means there is a major difference between the two. 9 months of feeling things no man can ever feel, even if he wanted to...and i think the naivety stems from the brain, based on a lack of mental(and emotional) experience to know when you are being led astray...following your heart, is the seeming path to (more)truth, in a world of deception, but that's just my opinion...

Originally posted by EnemyCombatant74
if men and women are so alike, why can't men give birth? the fact we can't means there is a major difference between the two.

I think most mothers would agree, for the role/position is so core to their sense of self-worth... but the ability to give birth itself has no baring on one's character. There are plenty of mother's who have no business having kids.

As for men not being able to give birth to a mini-me, they instead give birth to new innovative ideas, satisfying a drive to create something out of nothing, parallel to a biological clock.

The common difference we see in the ability to express and cope with emotions, can be explained by our upbringing. Often boys are told to be tough when they feel/express anger or fear. Girls on the other hand are usually given counsel with a hug. We don't give much thought to these little differences as kids but they have a huge impact on how we approach life's challenges as adults.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Originally posted by The Blind Eye

Originally posted by EnemyCombatant74
if men and women are so alike, why can't men give birth? the fact we can't means there is a major difference between the two.

I think most mothers would agree, for the role/position is so core to their sense of self-worth... but the ability to give birth itself has no baring on one's character. There are plenty of mother's who have no business having kids.

As for men not being able to give birth to a mini-me, they instead give birth to new innovative ideas, satisfying a drive to create something out of nothing, parallel to a biological clock.

The common difference we see in the ability to express and cope with emotions, can be explained by our upbringing. Often boys are told to be tough when they feel/express anger or fear. Girls on the other hand are usually given counsel with a hug. We don't give much thought to these little differences as kids but they have a huge impact on how we approach life's challenges as adults.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

I didn't mean having business or not with kids. That line of discourse forces me to confront my ideas about homosexual men having the legal right to have kids. No, I meant more along a science and physiological sense. Woman CAN have kids if they choose, and if the government of the country they dwell in deems them fit(lol).

Sure, some women shouldn't have kids, some men shouldn't have brains! While a lot of them seemed to have improved the world with their innovations and forward thinking progressive movements, you have to wonder if there ever would have been a Jack the Ripper say, or Charles Manson. Or countless hundreds of wars with modern warfare artillery and other civilian friendly improvements.

And what are you trying to suggest, that women don't come up with good ideas too? You should see the blanket my Mom made me! Works like a charm! now, I know she didn't invent the quilt of course, but that's what it took for me to actually get one. A woman. You see?

Lol. I'm sorry but men and women aren't even close to being the same. It is, metaphorically speaking, as though men and women live on two entirely different worlds.

Women view things both mentally and emotionally on different levels. Men are very visual. Women are emotional and intuitive.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by EnemyCombatant74
And what are you trying to suggest, that women don't come up with good ideas too? You should see the blanket my Mom made me! Works like a charm! now, I know she didn't invent the quilt of course, but that's what it took for me to actually get one. A woman. You see?

Yes yes i see, lmao ...
all i'm saying is that we all share the desire to procreate, to give birth, to send out into the world an extension of ourselves. Since women have traditionally had the sole focus of child rearing, most have not had the luxury in time and energy as men have to direct their energies in creating a new world, for better or worst. Though as we have seen since the sexual revolution and birth control that come out of the 60's many women have been liberated from this confining state of being... and as a result have taken the opportunity to express the same aspirations and abilities that men have. In some cases, women have proven to be so successful in the sciences and business that men are staying home to manage the home-front with kids. My point being, that many of the stereotypes and differences we typically witness melt away when men and women are given the opportunity to switch roles.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Originally posted by Fromabove
Women and men are different in a lot of ways, however, in the far future because we don't have the knowledge now, it may be possible for a man to have a brain transplant into a woman's body and vise versa. Also when cloning is perfected, it may be possible to clone yourself and promote the genes and hormones to create a body of the opposite sex and then have a brain transplant into that body that is a true clone copy of yourself yet only a version in the opposite sex. But that's for a future time if Earth lasts that long. Brain transplantation has been successfully done before in animals, but not perfected for humans.

hmm... that sounds fascinating. It would be totally cool if scientific findings showed such results can be achieved.

I thought I was the only one that knew that

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Interesting theory but I have to respectfully disagree because I see it in a completely opposite perspective from you.

Men and women have some extreme noticeable differences. Of course we all want love, security, get angry, have emotions, etc. This stereotype that men don't process deep emotions ('real men don't cry') or that women cry at AT&T commercials is not necessarily true.

But there are some huge differences between the sexes and I believe the media actually tries to use tactics that take us towards a unisex culture. In a lot of media you will see the stereotypical happy housewife with a huge grin on her face while using the Swiffer Sweeper in a commercial or a husky man out in the mountains with his truck in a Ford commercial.

The above is true because marketers realize they have to target their proper potential customer but I've noticed more and more that the entertainment media continues to blur the lines between the genders. Men are shown as weepy, submissive, emotional creatures while women are strong, independent business tigers.

IMO, that is why the books you used as examples were so popular. It's because they spoke the truth on a psychological level while the media tries to program us with stereotypes that are untruthful. I've read both books you mention and can vouch for this. In relationships, a man and a woman really can be on two separate planes in terms of how they deal with and process things in their marriage. Hence, Men are from Mars and Woman are from Venus. And the old adage 'Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free' is not obsolete. Hence, the popularity of the book 'The Rules.'

I personally enjoyed MARMWAFV because it helped me understand conflicts that were going on in my own marriage due to having two opposite genders trying to coexist under the same roof. It dissects the psychology of men and women and how they act in relationships. It was pretty accurate as I recall. 'The Rules' was not as appealing to me but it was based on the well known male instincts as the hunter/pursuer instead of the modern feminist beliefs that women are aggressive.

To even further validate my opinion, a male author came out with the male version of 'The Rules.' While the female version was a self help book to win a mate for marriage, the male version was a self help book for men to get a women in bed without a commitment. Just another sign that men and women do have some very strong differences.

It really does seem to me that the media is reversing us. Of course we have a lot of similarities because we're both human and have basic common human needs. But talk to a married couple and they will tell you just how different they are from their spouse to the point it makes their head spin sometimes.

reply to post by The Blind Eye

Minus the slight plumbing, hormonal and chromosome differences, we are basically the same. Though every where you look, the media and "authorities" try to convince us that we are polar opposites, to the point that we are different species....

Star and Flag. I agree. We are each and every one both male and female, with very few real differences not of a physical standard. I have often been told that I have a woman's brain, and I know women who have many male attributes, I will not go into the homosexual theory of existence in both nature, and in humanity. We are slowly become one people, one Spirit. A unity of Purpose, both male and female, with equal power from both. And yes, the media and many other things do seek to divide humanity, and in many ways too.

Gender: Man/Wo-man are but two polarities of the same thing. That which is your "spirit guide," or your "guardian angel," I think is both together. Male and female both, to sides of the same coin.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I base this on when I saw my own "Holy Guardian Angel," or "Spirit Guide." We each have one, or two, really. It was two beings, male and female, they glowed with golden color and radiated with energy and love. They had wings. They looked like identical twins, but were slightly different in appearance. I am quite certain this is where early man got the idea of Angels/Demons from.

Originally posted by AshleyD
... MARMWAFV ... dissects the psychology of men and women and how they act in relationships. It was pretty accurate as I recall. 'The Rules' was not as appealing to me but it was based on the well known male instincts as the hunter/pursuer instead of the modern feminist beliefs that women are aggressive.

I also had the same impression of these two books, though they both deal with our differences from the surface, which can be helpful in that we learn to play the game of getting along but does do any heavy lifting that would be required for the sexes to shed their baggage. If we take the time and effort to dig deeper, we come to the realization that we are more a like then different.

There is a lot of garbage from our collective past that gets in the way of us understanding one another. We are talking about thousands of years worth of conditioning to improve our chances of survival and the religious scripts that were written to re-enforce our stringent roles. Now just in the past 50 years we have for the first time broke free from our past, but not entirely, for we still have many of the old ways of thinking and operating in relationships.

The move toward a more unisex structured culture may seem scary at first but it's a necessary step for us to make toward a world of greater equality. When we bring men and women eye to eye in shared experiences and responsibilities, we will for the first time see in each other ourselves... which will change everything for the better.

There are obivous and distinct differences between the sexes. Mentally, physically and chemically speaking.

Also, why would a man want to make a woman from his own DNA then transplant his brain into a womans body to experience being a woman?

His brain is not wired the same way a womans is and i think the result would be less than heartening for anyone observing the psychology of the subject once this change had occured.

That is not say, that people who have trans-gender wants, wouldn't enjoy this.

Perhaps in that case, it would be helpfull....

Originally posted by autowrench
I have often been told that I have a woman's brain, and I know women who have many male attributes, I will not go into the homosexual theory of existence in both nature, and in humanity.

I understand your position and premise... it has always perplexed me why we get hung up on plumbing. Love is love, shouldn't matter what package a person comes in, but there is obviously some wiring in our brains that dictate sexual orientation. I can't explain why i'm attracted to women and not men... much like i can't explain why i like chocolate and dislike vanilla, but my gay friends tell me that the reason i often show up on 'gay-dar' as a prospect, is because i am as respective and out going with men as i am with women... plus i fit the profile of a metrosexual.

We are slowly become one people, one Spirit. A unity of Purpose, both male and female, with equal power from both.

For those who have the irrational fear that such a reality would make us all bisexuals and homosexuals, fear not, our sexual orientations, are a basic necessity built into our genetics to insure the continuation of the species. There will always be more then enough straight people to make babies. Once "religious" people can embrace this fact, they will for the first time be in a position to truly claim their spirituality. Noting the over-population problem that many countries face, this move toward people embracing their 'alternative' sexual orientation, could be seen as a necessary step in our evolution... not only spiritually but also to insure our survival.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Originally posted by Fromabove
Women and men are different in a lot of ways, however, in the far future because we don't have the knowledge now, it may be possible for a man to have a brain transplant into a woman's body and vise versa. Also when cloning is perfected, it may be possible to clone yourself and promote the genes and hormones to create a body of the opposite sex and then have a brain transplant into that body that is a true clone copy of yourself yet only a version in the opposite sex. But that's for a future time if Earth lasts that long. Brain transplantation has been successfully done before in animals, but not perfected for humans.

Heh you might want to look up on some of that stuff, I dont believe they've had as much success as you think.

Off the top of my head I think it was transplanting chicken embryo brains (ie they where very much undeveloped and still growing), not sure if they've done it at latter stages of an animals development or on other animal types. Given science im sure many a poor animals given its life for some scientists morbid curiosity.

I have seen a monkey having its head transplanted to another monkeys body about 6 years ago... one of the most disturbing things ive seen in a television documentary... considering the monkey was paralyzed and I assume put down latter... IF it survived the trauma post op that is... the other monkey was effectively killed during the operation. Sure it sat their moving its eyes around, breathing and opening its mouth but id hardly call that life. And as for killing a clone so you can steal its body... , a clone isnt you and as such you have no right to its body, regardless of where it came from or how genetically similar it is to yours.

To me gender in life is like a dumbbell, generally weighted to both ends to different extremes, but with a connection between em... and often there's alot of movement within that space. We are similar enough to be almost alike, but different enough to be noticeably dissimilar.

As to the spirit... given that mediums and the like can tell gender of their contacts id assume gender also survives past death, even if its purely a mental choice or mental imprint of the spirit.

Originally posted by The Blind Eye
The move toward a more unisex structured culture may seem scary at first but it's a necessary step for us to make toward a world of greater equality. When we bring men and women eye to eye in shared experiences and responsibilities, we will for the first time see in each other ourselves... which will change everything for the better.

The problem is do we lose very important strengths in doing so?.. im all for equality but you dont have to abandon your gender to see another persons point of view or to value them as a human. I know you didnt say abandon, but it would be what some people would expect or at least what the ones that would really try to push it would want to happen.

As for the original post... there ARE differences, fundamental and unchanging... its how we react to em and use em that counts in the long run. Heh and dont think its just men that play the old mind game for love, sex and material gain... women are and have been doing that far better and far longer than men have ... that door swings wide open in both directions.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by BigfootNZ]

Originally posted by BigfootNZ
The problem is do we lose very important strengths in doing so?

A ying/yang view of the sexes, would explain this concern, but the fact is each gender can express the strengths of both, therefore nothing is lost, only gained. Which again supports our evolution. If we are to survive the challenges we face in a modern world, we must grow in our understanding of ourselves and one another, and by doing so we develop the skills required to meet the increasing demands of diplomacy not only abroad but on the home front.