Only one percent of the Holocaust claims can be proven - Says Holocaust Scholar and Expert

reply to post by Regenstorm


Regen - this isn't just about jewish people. As I stated above, it wasn't just jewish people that were killed in the holocaust

What about the ethnic poles, slavs, russian prisoners of war, mentally handicapped, jehovahs witnesses, political dissidents, members of the resistance movements, community leaders etc?

Why are you making it just about jewish people?

reply to post by neformore


I don't, I asked a specific question about the Jews and that doesn't dismiss the prosecution of other groups of people.
Most of the mentally ill and people with Down-syndrome were killed by euthanasia and there is evidence to back this up. They weren't sent to concentration camps but to institutes specialised in murdering these people.
en.wikipedia.org...
How bad these murders are, they don't confirm the "death camps" (only named so after the war, before that they were known as concentration camps) of Auschwitz or others. This took also place in a different period.

Every story has more sides, just like thes Mass Graves of innocent Germans or The Forrest of Katyn.
WARNING EXTREME GRAPHIC FOOTAGE!!!
More info on Katyn:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by neformore

Why are you making it just about jewish people?

A little trip to WIKI might explain who has made it just about the Jews.

Inclusion of non-Jewish victims of the Nazis in the Holocaust is objected to by many persons including Elie Wiesel, and by organizations such as Yad Vashem established to commemorate the victims of the Holocaust.[31] They say that the word was originally meant to describe the extermination of the Jews, and that the Jewish Holocaust was a crime on such a scale, and of such totality and specificity, as the culmination of the long history of European antisemitism, that it should not be subsumed into a general category with the other crimes of the Nazis.[31]

So what term do we use to describe the deaths of approx 50 million non jews........... "Collateral Damage".............. And sadly there are some that would be happy with that !!!

reply to post by neformore


Great, first you are threatening me because I have a different view and now you're ignoring my questions? Maybe yo should apply for a job at some government agency, they have that same policy.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by sezsue

 

Hello. Do not want to get into another futile heated discussion, just want to know where this

..... and that that 6 million number comes from a Jewish prophecy that the Jewish messiah could not come before 6 million died.

comes from. Being Jewish myself, never seen this.
Thank you in advance.

The same Jewish terrorists that instigated both WW1 and WW2 began planting terms such as, holocaust, extermination and their ever important 6 million Jews, everywhere they could as early as 1900. It was part of the grand extortion scheme on the world. They used it first by calling WW1 the great holocaust. Again in 1919 and failed yet again in 1936. They did everything short of a constant chant to get these now well known phrases in the thoughts of everyone. Finally, WW2 and millions of dead bodies brought them their success.

This fact alone shows exactly what roles Jews played in this horrific part of our world history. Why else would they regurgitate these words repeatedly for all these years? It was an important piece of propaganda in their ultimate plan. Sadly very few are willing to understand these truths.

These wars were their atrocities. The blood spilled in WW1 and WW2 is on their hands as is their genocides on Russians, Armenians and currently Palestinians. You cannot deny the mountains of clear evidence to all these horrors easily. Those that do are simply tools spreading the lies.

www.gnosticliberationfront.com...

Early attempts to introduce Holocaustianity's kernel - a hoax of "six million" dead or dying Jews - failed, when global conditions did not include the prerequisite critical mass of corrupt world leaders. In June 1900, for example, Rabbi Stephen Wise spoke of Rabbi Stephen Wise"6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favour of zionism". Another botched attempt to kick-start the myth was in 1919, when few believed Martin Glynn's claims of "six million" starving Jews. In 1936, Chaim Weizmann told of "six million" Jews in Europe who were unwanted and effectively sentenced to be imprisoned.

The derivation of the "six million" is an ancient Jewish prophecy, which predicts the return of the Jews to the "Promised Land" after the loss of six million of their number. Specifically, the six stems from the sixth letter "vav" in the Hebrew alphabet or alefbet. Six is the number of man in the Jewish tradition, since vav is said to be a picture of man. Man was supposedly created on the sixth day, works for six days of the week, and the "beast" has the "number of a man" - 666. Six billion deaths would be credible only to utter nincompoops; six thousand would be too insignificant to yield appreciable income and political capital. Hence, six million was chosen as a figure that almost everyone could agree on.

The few who had been duped by the pre-WWII scams did provide some cash. However, the crooked zionist mafia were already immensely rich by the time of Glynn's assertions, through seizing control of US and European central banks and newspapers, and looting Russia in the "Bolshevik Revolution". Nowadays these crime supremos will not even get out of bed for anything less than a billion dollars, unless the project provides other non-financial benefits.

It was not until the zionists had instigated a Second World War which killed in excess of fifty million that these genocidal gangsters tricked the world into providing them with their own sovereign state, and into allowing the establishment of the new religion that would be employed to stifle all opposition. Control of their own state - "Israel" in occupied Palestine - would furnish a base for terrorist (Mossad) training camps, nuclear weapons, and the zionist international crime syndicate.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
No my friend, I am not happy at all that the event happened, not only did relatives of mine die an untimely death in World War II but so did about 52 million other people die tragic, cruel, unnecessary and untimely deaths.

The use of the word happy in my text is not meant to imply a joyus celebration of the event.

It is used to imply that you, yourself are cognisant, and accept, that the events of the holocaust happened.

Do you understand that?

In that context, what is your response?

Main Entry: ho-lo-caust
Pronunciation: \ ‘hō-lǝ-, kȯst, `hä- also -,käst or `hȯ-lǝ- kȯst
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burn whole, from hol- + kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn
Date: 13th century
1: a sacrifice consumed by fire
2: a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire

I am entirely satisfied that the word itself like Semite was usurped to misconstrue Semitic people as only Jews and then the coined word anti-Semite to misconstrue those who don’t like Jews was similarly usurped for political purposes by ZIONISTS to then create a fictional meaning of…

3. a often capitalized: the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II – usually used with the b: a mass slaughter of people, especially

I am entirely convinced that the word itself has become part of a series of word games invented by the Zionists and Neoconservatives of the world to be used as propaganda to shape public opinion and perspectives very much like anti-Semite, politically correct, conventional wisdom, War on Terror, Enemy Combatant and others have come to be used to effect emotional reactions from the public for the sake of politically manipulating those emotions towards the benefit of one group or government.

When one considers that numerically at least twice as many Slavs died through Nazi persecution, malfeasance, and deliberate machinations through a series of forced labor, scorched earth warfare and genocide then clearly the very clear usurped definition of the word holocaust meaning especially Jews is about politics not about facts. Not only is it about politics and Zionist/Jewish politics, it’s about the politics of emotion, and exploiting and manipulating emotions.

The plain fact is when you add the Slavs, the Gypsies, the Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Poles, Romanians, Homosexuals, Catholics, Freemasons, political dissidents, deformed and handicapped German Children, the Jewish deaths pale in comparison no matter how the numbers are inflated.

The fact that a word dating from the 13th century which means a sacrifice consumed by fire was usurped by the Zionists to describe the event and not just negates the far wider scale suffering and death of others but also the tens of millions of allied troops that actually died fighting the Germans is shall wee say bull bleep!

I do believe things like Operation Barbarossa and Paper Clip really happened but the reality is that all militaries love to give code names for the things that they do and there was no code name given by the Nazis for the specific persecution of the Jews in the manner that they claim through the post-war coining of the word holocaust.

Since almost none of the parties killed through German parties were burnt alive say like Jews and other heretics were during the Spanish Inquisition then no clearly the word itself- Holocaust is being misused for political purposes, purposes that Merrian-Webster clearly illustrates by saying ESPECIALLY JEWS by the Nazis during World War II.

Now if the Zionists can butcher and alter a word, and it hasn’t been limited to just that word that they have butchered for the politics of emotion and the victim dictum then its no stretch of the imagination but a probability that they would also misconstrue events to misconstrue a word for those events.

Did the Germans have an extensive system of forced labor camps where many people of all races, walks of life, political persuasions die as part of a state sponsored war effort, wars that since the dawn of time have been always aimed at things like “The only good Indian is a dead Indian, and kill them all and let G-d sort them out” practiced by almost every army that ever went to war? Yes they surely did.

The Holocaust like the word anti-Semite is all about politically propelling and exploiting the victim dictum by doing everything possible to paint people as victims who because of that perceived victimization other people must give up rights and money to appease the victims. The victims then become the victimizers and if Zionist Israel has proven one thing it is that they are victimizers who use a word that they usurped and events that they have embellished in the distant recent past to not just seek acceptance of a genocide campaign of their own they constantly wage but to get the other people of the world to pay them to do it.

The victim dictum is in fact far more dangerous than the labor camps were that the Jews in large part ended up in because the Nazi leadership convinced the German people they were being victimized by Zionists and Jews.

It’s the victim dictum that is what’s dangerous and most especially the special words that people will froth and foam at the mouth and act like wild savage animals to defend and promote.

I think it’s pretty clear that anyone who can get that worked up over a usurped word, and the highly embellished events around it, that they are just a breath away from pulling a trigger, pulling a lever, pushing a button to eliminate by violence and death those that refuse to agree with them.

The victim dictum rose like a phoenix out of the ashes and smoldering ruins of the Third Reich and the Fourth Reich is using that to justify the fires of war that are spreading throughout the world.

We must put a stop to the Victim Dictum and like any parasitical weed it has to be destroyed at the roots, and the Victim Dictum is rooted in the usurped word holocaust.

Otherwise the world is doomed to perpetual warfare, death and suffering and will in fact eventually be consumed by fire.

Those who allow themselves to be ruled by emotions and intimidation put into perilous risk this thing we call life.


[edit on 10/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Regenstorm
I don't, I asked a specific question about the Jews and that doesn't dismiss the prosecution of other groups of people.
Most of the mentally ill and people with Down-syndrome were killed by euthanasia and there is evidence to back this up. They weren't sent to concentration camps but to institutes specialised in murdering these people.
en.wikipedia.org...
How bad these murders are, they don't confirm the "death camps" (only named so after the war, before that they were known as concentration camps) of Auschwitz or others. This took also place in a different period.

The Death Camps and the Concentrattion Camps were two seperate entities, serving different purposes. Excepting Madjanek, Auschwitz and Chelmo, the Death Camps were only in operation for the (approximately) eighteen months of Aktion Reinhard. Treblinka and Sobibor in particular were no more than a single building alongside the rail tracks, although some deportees were occasionally selected the replace the Sonderkomanndo who were forced to process and dispose of the bodies, every one who arrived at that station would be dead within hours of arriving. These deportees came directly from the ghettos in the East and later from their countries of origin, including Germany, and were murdered on arrival from the beginning of 1942. The mobile gas vans used for the T4 Euthanasia project were deemed unsatisfactory for mass killings, initially, old engines were used to pipe in fumes to buildings made airtight, but carbon monoxide was found to be inefficient on such large numbers,(and petrol was needed on the front lines) which is why prussic acid was tested on Russia POWs in August 1941 at Himmler's request, he had sent out a request to the T4 unit to come up with an alternative to mass shootings as he was concerned at the detrimental effect it was having on the mental health of his men.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by shamhat]

reply to post by Regenstorm


Heres every post of mine in this thread

Quite how you figure from any of those posts that you have been "threatened" is beyond me.

The answer to your question is that in some cases the Nazi's killed people in cities. The Warsaw Ghetto being the most infamous example.

As for Malbork, all I san speculate is that the Red Army did, in return, what the Nazis did during Barbarossa. The city was a Festung (fortress) and it is entirely possible that the people in it were executed. Frankly, its disgusting, as was Katyn, which occurred at the start of the war before hte Nazi's attacked Russia and two two countries simultaneously annexed Poland.

The Russians were no angels. I make no excuses for them. But this thread is not about Russian atrocities, or Stalin. It is about what the Nazi's did.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by sezsue

 

The problem is this sezsue.

Is a call for the boycott of goods grounds for the industrialised slaughter of people?

And is it grounds to subsequently question the event or try and "sanitise" its motives in some way?

And - as I highlighted above, what about the other groups of people killed by the Nazi's in a similar manner. What does it have to do with them, exactly?

It wasn't just jewish people killed in the holocaust - you do realise that, don't you?


[edit on 10/1/10 by neformore]

Applause!!!!!!

You are really good at wording your questions in such a way, that it makes it sound like the person you are replying to is saying that stuff.

You are finally admitting what I and many other people commenting here have been saying......that it's not all about the Jews, it doesn't BELONG to them exclusively, and as such, everyone has a right to question any aspect.

I'll let your words speak for themselves:

And is it grounds to subsequently question the event or try and "sanitise" its motives in some way?

What, the event can't be questioned for ANY reason?

"Sanitise" it's motives???? What do you mean by this?

The information I gave shows that international Jews were begged by the German Jews to stop meddling in their affairs in the strongest language possible!

No, I was trying to show how NO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE can escape guilt, because there was plenty of blame to go around.

All of the nations involved in WWII, were involved in atrocities against the people they perceived to be their enemies, and governments fomented war when they could have negotiated with each other.

And yes, *gasp* even the Jews had some responsibility for what happened by calling for an international boycott against the Germans, which was working. Jewish leaders set out to "destroy" Germany and the German people, as stated in their own words.

If your enemy was trying to destroy you, you would take steps to protect yourself.


***************************************************************

I challenge everyone reading this thread, to read these two articles below.

************** DENY IGNORANCE ******************************

***************************************************************

The 1930s Economic Boycott of Germany - Prelude

The 1930s Economic Boycott of Germany - Execution By Udo Walendy

reply to post by ken10


reply to post by Zerbst


reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I'm replying to these three posts in one go because, frankly, its clear to me that your sole basis for arguing about the holocaust is to do with an axe you have to grind against jewish people.

I have repeatedly stated that it wasn't just jewish people who were killed in the holocaust.

And frankly, I don't see how continuing the discussion past this point has any benefit, because you will always try and make it about jewish people, and craft your arguments solely on that basis, allowing your bias to guide you.

Simply put, survivor and witness testimony, documented evidence and physical evidence - including documents and photographs complied by the Nazi's themselves exists that proves the holocaust happened.

World War 2 was a horrendous time. Many despicable acts were carried out on all sides. The industrialised killing of human beings stands out, and it should never be trivialised.

reply to post by neformore


Well it wasn't in this thread, it was here.

Originally posted by neformore reply to post by Regenstorm

 

Yes. Thats the crude piece of Nazi Propaganda portraying Churchill as some kind of agent of an evil jewish plot to enslave europe isn't it? Careful. Your colours are showing.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Glass_Eyed_Max
What you fail to understand is that "buggering about with numbers" does NOT equate to denying the genocide of occurring. In your little world, "Questioning" and "Denying" are one in the same.

Let me put this in simple words for you, because what I've written so far apparently does not seem to have sunk in.

I have no problem with people questioning numbers, because frankly no one knows exact figures for sure.

I do have a problem with people using the questioning of numbers as a basis for outright denial of the whole event

Can I make that much clearer? I don't think I can.

Firstly, you didn't answer my question.

Let's quote myself: "I think 99% of the world population can agree the Holocaust did in fact happen."


Now let's quote you: "I'm going back to basics to find the root cause of this "argument" that stems from an event you say everyone agrees happened."

Really? Did I say "everyone agrees happened?" Is 99% everyone? Answer me this. lol Is 99% of the World Population everyone? What happened to the 1% left? So again, did I say "everyone agrees happened?" Or did I say 99%? One percent of World Population is 67 Million.

Secondly, of the 630 posts on this thread, find me an overwhelming amount of members claiming the Holocaust did not happen. Post on here for everyone to see, statements and claims of the members who are "denying" the Holocaust.

I'll quote you again: "I do have a problem with people using the questioning of numbers as a basis for outright denial of the whole event."

Post on here, for everyone to see, all the people who are questioning the numbers as a basis for outright denial of the whole event.




[edit on 10-1-2010 by Glass_Eyed_Max]

reply to post by neformore

I'm replying to these three posts in one go because, frankly, its clear to me that your sole basis for arguing about the holocaust is to do with an axe you have to grind against jewish people.

Sounds like a reading comprehension problem to me, as well as a self fulfilling prophecy to validate a predisposition that most of your posts in this thread have been aimed at.

Please show me the law written in stone that says Zionists are not capable of being Tyrants or Despots or conspiring for self serving purposes.

Please show me the law written in stone that tyrants of certain persuasions and affiliations who utilize excellent propaganda and emotional manipulation should not be called out and confronted and exposed and dressed down?

You have though done an excellent job at demonstrating the power of the victim dictum and how emotional manipulation and attempts at emotional domination are used to further conspiracies even while you unwittingly fall victim to that conspiracy.

You have done that by avoiding every piece of evidence and fact presented in this thread that illustrates the myriad and plentiful fabrications regarding World War II and how they are used for the benefit of a select few to drive world events today, in order to propel one political faction above and beyond reproach and to indict any and all who would dare question their assertions and motivations.

Why such emotionally and biased people even take part in academic debates with no other intent than to fuel them with emotion and stifle and derail them is beyond me.

Those contributions are simply aimed at maintaining the status quo at any and all costs and diminishing all of humanity to try to elevate only one portion of it as a moral authority.

That might not be so bad if that group did not abuse that authority for ill gotten, selfish and deadly gain, which sadly they do.

Which as time and events make that more and more transparent makes these foolish arguments and attempts at emotional domination less and less effective.

In psychology they call it a drama triangle. The drama triangle starts with a victim, a victim that wants rescued from a persecutor, who then drags in a third party and tells them, I am alright, you are alright too, but THEY are not alright. THEY have victimized me, I am alright, and you will definitely be alright if you protect me from that victimization by VICTIMIZING THEM.

The victim and the rescuer validate one another, each telling one another that they are alright, that they are right, regardless of whether they are right, and using their 2 against 1 numbers to then persecute the alleged persecutor.

In time as intelligent people see how the victim and the rescuer are persecuting the alleged persecutor then the sympathy changes over to the original persecutor that then needs rescued from the original victim and the original rescuer, the triangle then expands and people within the triangle shift roles. The victim becomes the persecutor and the rescuer becomes the victim, and the original persecutor becomes the rescuer.

It changes back and forth time and time and time again, in a circle, all based on the, I am alright, you are alright, they are not alright concept of morality.

The only thing that ever breaks this cycle is when all people stop violating other people’s boundaries, when all people hold themselves accountable for their own actions and most importantly when all people are willing to sit down and discuss openly and honestly in ways aimed at eliminating their need to perceive themselves and others as victims, persecutors or rescuers.

So when people who want to use that drama triangle victimization for attention, for money, for power, to seek out and control those who would rescue them, by dictating the terms of what makes someone ‘alright’ and ‘not alright’ and refuses to tolerate discussion and analysis and anything that would take that victim and rescuer or persecutor status away, since it is the basis of their power they rail against it by insisting at any and all costs that they are victims and anyone who questions the how and why and wherefore that they are victims is victimizing them further.

As I stated pages ago clearly your emotions do cloud your ability to perceive these greater and higher truths, and clearly there are those people who don’t want people to perceive and know these greater and higher truths.

This creates that endless karmic wheel where we are each then condemned to be in turn victim, then rescuer, then persecutor in an endless cycle that mires humanity in death, starvation, cruelty and chaos.

Sometimes I think ATS Members get the “Deny Ignorance” motto confused with simply denying their own ignorance at any and all costs, including misidentifying other members motives and intelligence, and slandering these things as well.

Of course such intellectually sound, logical and deep arguments are too much for some members to grapple with so they resort to those tactics described above.

Our best defense of course is free speech which is why the masters and purveyors of the politically correct victim dictum that elevates whole groups of humanity to above and beyond reproach in order to work would like to do away with it.

Sometimes the truth is an ugly thing, and sometimes the truth hurts.

Feel good solutions though often lead to very ugly and hurtful things in times too.

The time has come to end the lies about World War I and World War II and end the victim dictum and put all of humanity back on an even footing and scale.

Thanks.




[edit on 10/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Sharrow


The truth to the 1% claim can never be proven either way. Though I personally believe it.
One must remember that the history books are written by the victors, and by design are hard on the losers.
This is not to say that many bad things were not done, just where does the lie end and the truth begin??

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Regenstorm

 

Regen - this isn't just about jewish people. As I stated above, it wasn't just jewish people that were killed in the holocaust
What about the ethnic poles, slavs, russian prisoners of war, mentally handicapped, jehovahs witnesses, political dissidents, members of the resistance movements, community leaders etc?
Why are you making it just about jewish people?

And Neformore, why don't YOU mention the word "Christians" when you reiterate you list above as I have provided you a source on those numbers?

A question for those that doubt the holocaust: where, in your opinion, have all these people gone, if they didn't die in the camps? because they did not return to their families.

Very important video.







[edit on 10-1-2010 by Glass_Eyed_Max]

Originally posted by masterp
A question for those that doubt the holocaust: where, in your opinion, have all these people gone, if they didn't die in the camps? because they did not return to their families.

War and disaster displace as many people as they kill. People get separated and with no idea where one another are they get lost to one another in a big world.

Over 1,000 people from Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans still cannot be accounted for. They are not presumed to be dead because their bodies have never been discovered, though some of them may be dead. Many probably just have no idea where their family’s, loved one’s or friend’s who were also displaced in many cases to never return home are.

One Colorado man who was displaced 12 years ago through a flood much to his chagrin had been legally declared dead which he did not find out until he was arrested for impersonating himself…a dead man!

When you consider that the phone system was not as wide spread in those days, that there were no such things as computers and that most refugees simply went about the task of feeding and housing themselves as best they could after the tragedy of war that does account for a lot of missing people.

Either way there really is no accurate accounting of who existed in the first place, to decide they were no longer around in the aftermath of the second place, other than often just hearsay, guesstimates and other less factual forms.

Also consider too that FEMA the Federal Emergency Management Agency here in the United States that helps citizens displaced or harmed physically or financially by disasters pegs up to 40% of the funds and assistance it doles out to be through the acts of fraud by people looking to be compensated to the government by claiming injury when in fact they suffered none.

That’s a pretty high figure, so it’s safe to assume that there were a lot of fraudulent claims made for individual profit from various governments and agencies after World War II.

Take the emotions out of it, and interject some common sense and logic into it instead, and you start seeing a very different picture indeed.


[edit on 10/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Let's see, six million divided by five years divided by 365 days divided by 24 hours divided by 60 minutes equals 2.28.

So they were somehow killing and burning the bodies of over two people per minute, 24/7 for the entire war? Hmmmm. From what I understand, cremating a body takes HOURS.

Why don't we all put our objective hats on for a moment shall we?

Should we believe:

A) the Holocaust did happen and records about the event are relatively accurate?
B) the Holocaust did not happen or was grossly exaggerated for political reasons?

There is a mountain of evidence to suggest A is true. From members of the Nazi government, to soldiers, to everyday Germans, to survivors, to citizens of countries surrounding those under Nazi rule. There are a multitude of documents that suggest there were plans for the systematic murder of certain minorities in countries under Nazi rule. There have been trials where members of former Nazi guards have been found guilty of war crimes.

There is barely any evidence to suggest B is true. The whole premise relies on the notion that a small group of people were able to trick, deceive and execute these events for personal gain. The risks taken and luck needed would be so high that the probability of the whole thing going to plan would be very slim.

Now, you are free to believe what you want, but if reason and logic are used it is not hard to see there is an agenda for those wishing to deny or downplay the events of the Holocaust. The arguments they use and reasoning they employ indicate they have a strong bias and cannot look at the event objectively.