This thread will surely convince you the year 2012 has great significance!

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
where PRECIESLY ?? people keep claiming it - but dont actually provide cites

They cannot - this is what they claim is a valid source from the website mentioned above:
"I recently discovered the following on the AboveTopSecret.com discussion forum. It was posted in December 2001 by a New Zealand Maori, (whose web-name is "alien"), as a response to a request for any information on the Mayan "end-of-the-world prediction" for 2012........"

So a source for the problems in 2012 simply points to a post made at this forum.... and that is considered a valid prediction!

[edit on 4/1/10 by dereks]

Does the calendar actually end in 2012? Doesn't it count to 20 baktuns?

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by dereks

 

It does? where exactly - and not the Mayan calender!

Another poster already answered this:

Mayans, Nostradamus, Hopis, Chinese, Hindus and possibly Egyptians all predicted it.

If you would be so kind as to show us where the:

- Hopis
- Chinese
- Hindus

... predicted 2012, it would be great. Oh, the Egyptians and 2012? That's a new one. Again, some evidence would be nice here.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by serbsta

 

I read the rest of your post and understood what you were saying...but it's an extremely dull argument...obviously it's going to start over...SO WHAT?!?

But see you just answered your own question. If it start's over, it means it never had an end, simply a milestone which served as a marker for the counting system. I fail to see why you need to go beyond this when through simple logic you have reached the ultimate conclusion.

reply to post by CHA0S


Hello everyone, This is my first post even though I've been lurking on here for quite a few years!
I do enjoy the posts and find many of them quite humourous.
(I mean that in a non-sarcastic way :-) )
Anyway...
I'm not totally convinced that anything of great significance is going to happen on 21/12/12.
I find it hard to accept that a regular extinction cycle occurs every 62 million years and just in case it doesn't, a meteor or mystery planet is on standby, ready to pulverise us, to ensure the trend continues.
It's funny how Nostradamus seems to rear his head everytime impending doom is mentioned. Like most of his "predictions" they are only attributed to an event after it has occurred, often with an obscure connection.
I feel the same way with all the predictions of 2012.
It's mentioned that the Chinese, Hindu's, Mayan's, screwball's...all predict something happening on this day.
Could it just be possible that the event that everyone is so concerned about could just a simple astronomical occurrence that will happen on this day, similar to the alignment of the planets?
Remember that one? The world was meant to come to an end that day too!

As for the Mayan calendar ending on the 21/12/12. Why does this mean the end of the world and not just the end of their calendar?
Maybe the bloke with all the knowledge and responsibility for drawing these things up, died/was shot/speared before he got around to the next one?!!

For a race of people that were so advanced, they certainly didn't fit in with the 62 million cycle of extinction theory. They supposedly predicted the end of the world but not their own demise.

I don't think I'll be too worried about them predicting mine.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by The Ghost Who Walks]

[edit on 4-1-2010 by The Ghost Who Walks]

ok - a good place to start is ` did nostradamus ACTUALLY predict anything for 2012 `

this is also the easiest place to start - as the entire corpus of his writtings is availiable on line , and any claims made against them are thus instantly falisiable

so - lets start

can someone quote the quantrain wherein nostrodamus ` predicts ` anything for 2012 ?

and if they cannot - explain why so many 2012 sites contiunie to cite nostrodamus as " evidence "

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
can someone quote the quantrain wherein nostrodamus ` predicts ` anything for 2012 ?

You will have to wait for something to actually happen in 2012 before they can go and postdict it and find where nostrodamus was supposed to have predicted it happening

and if they cannot - explain why so many 2012 sites contiunie to cite nostrodamus as " evidence "

That is easy, as "everyone" knows nostrodamus has correctly predicted everything, whilst in reality he has not been able to predict any specific event!

The fact is that there is no quote from any text that specifically states 'the world will end on 21/12/12' None exists.

Thats why people cannot quote it in a debate.

The Mayans have a creation myth called the Popul Vuh. I like to compare it to the Christian bible or any religion's 'sacred book' for that matter.

The Popul Vuh talks about several creations or ages of the sun and how each one is destroyed after a time followed by the creation of a new age.

I believe this 'story' is the only reason that people link the end of the world to the end of the long count calender.

It's amazing how powerful a story book can be. And how it can be interpreted.

Millions of people worldwide believe in God and Jesus Christ when in fact there is not a shred of credible evidence that supports their existance, now or x thousand years ago.

Edit to add a link that might clear up some 'grey areas'

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 4/1/10 by logicalview]

stop busting my chops people, i have a lot riding on this end of the world prediction. i'll be pretty damn sad if it doesn't end.

reply to post by Zmurfix


Could it be that every 12,000 years we have a massive flood? the previous flood is recorded into the mythology of many nations.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by Sean48

 

Well, thank you for that brilliantly insightful statement...but you made no attempt what so ever to provide a valid argument and debunk the points I am making here.

That would be like spending the time to debunk chicken little.
Every Mayan settlement had its own calendar. Only the one ended in 2012.

people on this forum are so ignorant, it's actually very funny!

they try and argue, WELL OF COURSE THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO END.
THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
and they are right, but they are arguing a simple misconception.

and that's really all internet forums like this one are made up of.

people going off on silly misconceptions.

i mean anyone who actually does more than watch a documentary on discovery channel about 2012, can easily see that there is a lot of truth to this subject

despite the dis info being thrown around it is still not that hard to at least get a basic understanding of what most likely will happen.

I aked for carlification earlier.
We pass the "belt" or the "galactic equator" each 36.000 years not 64my as i understand OP is saying. If OP meens 64my for a complete circle around the galaxy i dont see why it shoud affect us.

Originally posted by The Ghost Who Walks
reply to post by CHA0S

 

I'm not totally convinced that anything of great significance is going to happen on 21/12/12.

I feel the same way with all the predictions of 2012.

It's mentioned that the Chinese, Hindu's, Mayan's, screwball's...all predict something happening on this day.

Could it just be possible that the event that everyone is so concerned about could just a simple astronomical occurrence that will happen on this day, similar to the alignment of the planets?

Remember that one? The world was meant to come to an end that day too!

For a race of people that were so advanced, they certainly didn't fit in with the 62 million cycle of extinction theory. They supposedly predicted the end of the world but not their own demise.

I don't think I'll be too worried about them predicting mine.

Wow. Been here at all? You sound just alike.

skepdic.com...
The world will not end on 12-21-2012, at least not according to the Maya, who knew about as much about our planet's future demise as Gordon-Michael Scallion, St. Malachy, Edgar Cayce, Zecharia Sitchin,or Nostradamus, namely, nothing. The Maya had zero, zilch, nada, mix bá'al to say about the hoax planet Nibiru or the end of the world.

The next reset date, by some calculations, is December 21, 2012. Obviously, this calendar is of no interest to the Maya any longer, since their civilization collapsed over a thousand years ago.

Nevertheless, this date is of enormous interest to certain doomsday prophets and New Age astrologers, such as John Calleman, who are spreading the good news either that the Maya knew the date when the world would end or they knew the date when a New Age of Transformation would begin.
(The Mayan glyphs and hieroglyphs aren't crystal clear about what the calendar means.)

Too bad they couldn't predict their own collapse.


[edit on 4-1-2010 by liveandletlive]

First off, I would love for someone to post links to information on how "several other ancient societies" also predicted 2012. And if somehow they did, that only confirms one thing: that their math and astronomy was correct.

If they were all watching the same stars and planets go by in the sky (and they knew what they were doing), then it only makes sense that their cycles would end around the same time!

Also, I think you have to look more deeply into ancient culture to rather than from the point of view of our modern culture. To us, time is linear (i.e. we count up each year with no set end point), whereas to most agrarian societies of the time considered time to be cyclical (i.e. you harvest crops in one part of the year, and plant in another, and the cycle repeats itself next year).

So if you're looking at it from our culture's point of view, you aren't really getting a sense of what it actually meant to the Maya society. They made their calendar as a series of cycles all inside one big cycle. In our calendars, you do see cycles (i.e. months and days in every year), but our year system just counts up to an indefinite number.

So I can understand if someone from our culture would think that the end of their cycle would mean the end of time, because we think linearly.

PS: Another thing. The Mayans may have been really good at observing the stars and planets' movements, but they really had no idea how (if at all) they could affect Earth. So that was left up to interpretation, most likely by their religious leaders...

reply to post by Alien Mind

Originally posted by Alien Mind
reply to post by CHA0S

 

Failed!

Humans have only been around for a half-million years

Human have existed for roughly half a million years, but this answer depends on the exact definition of "human". Fossil evidence shows that several human-like lineages developed during the past million years or so. >From fossils, the appearance of Homo sapiens is dated at about half a million years, and of anatomically modern Homo sapiens at about a hundred thousand years, values that are also supported by genomic evidence. Another data point, although not something you asked...

How, in any way, shape or form, does that have to do with the OP?

You either misread/didn't read the OP or we have the perfect example of someone "going-off on a tangent"...

I'm curious, I know we're in a heated debate about the whole 2012 issue, but has anyone factored in the calendar modifications made by the Romans?

www.webexhibits.org...-roman

en.wikipedia.org...

Roman Calendars were 355 days long per year until 45 BCE. The Mayan Calendar is 260 days long per year. This throws a whole new factor at us. The Mayans weren't using the Gregorian Calendar and basing the 2012 theory on a calendar dimension that wasn't used during that period will ultimately offset the results by quite a wide margin.

The real question is, are we counting the Mayan calendar by the number of days and seeing where "D-Day" falls in alignment with the 365-day per year calendar or are we calculating a Mayan year as 365 days? I have a feeling we're going to need to check our math on this one.

Great Job doing the math, but how many times did people say that the world was going to end? I respect your work, but it's kinda, eh little sketchy

Thanks for a great post CHA0S. And man do I wish people who start a thread could delete replies from others on that thread - the hijacking and off target comments are so tiring to readers.

Having READ your post, I wish to comment on your points:

1. It is surprising the Mayan calendar so accurately represents such a massive cycle so accurately. On a related note, it's been proposed the "Imperial" (feet, inches, miles) measurement system, in use back to the time of ancient Egypt and before, more accurately represents the circumference of the earth than the metric system, and this wasn't discovered until satellites could accurately measure the earth's circumference at the equator. One of our Engineering professors had a well written summary of this, which I can't put my hands on right now...but this www.ancient-world-mysteries.com... link summarizes the key points well enough. The point here is that it appears the ancients may have had a knowledge of the earth's size that *may* have only been possible due to space travel.

2. The mayan "2012" date is the end of a cycle, not end of their calendar, but it's a big deal when a cycle ends as it's supposed to be a time of dramatic change. So to the posts about "bucket lists", and end of the world, that's silly...but being prepared for dramatic changes in society structure wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thanks again for the well prepared post.

CR

[edit on 4-1-2010 by ChrisR]

reply to post by Alien Mind


Some other information from PBS:

Human fossils as old as 4.4 million years old have been found.

Interesting!

www.pbs.org...