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Would a Pope/Vatican lie or hide the truth?

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Gnu

posted on May, 31 2004 @ 08:33 AM
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The Orthodox Church began at Pentecost. It was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ, when after His Ascension, He sent down upon His Apostles the Holy Spirit who proceeds from God the Father as is written in the New Testament. The Orthodox Church of today can trace its history back to the New Testament Church in unbroken continuity. The Apostles, as per our Lord's command, preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ and founded churches in Europe, Asia and Africa. Under the direction of the Apostles and their successors, whom they appointed to carry on their mission, the Orthodox Church began to thrive. At each city and town that the Apostles traveled they would appoint a bishop to continue to minister to the faithful, before leaving on their missionary journeys. As the Church grew, the bishops in turn had to appoint priests and deacons to help them with their flock. In the early centuries of Christianity, there appeared many so-called Christian churches which espoused false teachings (i.e., not based on Holy Scripture and/or the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles). Thus the Christian Church had to address these heresies (false teachings) and to begin to systematically espouse and proclaim the true teachings of Christ. The Church did this through its Ecumenical (i.e., universal) and regional councils. Just as the Apostles in the Book of Acts, Chapter 15 asked for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in addressing issues regarding the teachings of Christ, their successors-the bishops-held councils in order to decide what is true and what is false. It was within these councils that the Orthodox Church began to form its doctrine; always guided by the Holy Spirit.It was in the early centuries of the Church's existence, while fighting to safeguard the true doctrines of Christ, that the Christian Church officially took on the name "Orthodox." The word Orthodox literally means "straight teaching" or "straight worship," being derived from two Greek words: orthos, "straight," and doxa, "teaching" or "worship." However, as early as the fourth century A.D., there were cultural, sociological, political and linguistic differences between the Christians of Eastern and Western Europe which eventually led to separation in the Church. The Eastern Christians spoke Greek where the Western Christians spoke Latin. Where the Eastern Church's administration was governed by a group of bishops (i.e., Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem) which shared a common language and cultural background, the Western Church's administration was governed by a single bishop: the bishop of Rome. All these factors led to some basic theological differences between the Orthodox Church of the East and West. Unfortunately, by the eleventh century A.D. the differences between East and West became great enough to cause a separation of the One Holy Orthodox Catholic Church. The Eastern Church became known as the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Western Church became know as the Roman Catholic Church, for it was governed and administered by the bishop or Pope of Rome. Again it must be emphasized that there were many factors besides theological ones which led to the schism of the one Christian Church. However, some theological issues which were promulgated by the Western Church were never and are not to this very day accepted by the Eastern Church such as: the infallibility of the Pope of Rome on matters of Church doctrine, the universal jurisdictional authority of the Pope of Rome, the doctrine of Purgatory, the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary, the unauthorized addition of "and the Son" to the eighth article of the Nicene Creed, et. al.

ICXC




posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:14 PM
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maybe if he was the 1st pope in hundreds of years to not come from Italy--in fact he came from a communist country. He knocked off his predecessor after 33* days into office. The man is killed and he takes over. The last fatimia or whatever the spelling was so horrible, it couldn't be revealed. It was the collaspe of the catholic church and overun by a evil pope.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 03:30 PM
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after my run with the marines, i think i'm going to become a priest, cuz the more i seek truth, the more i end up with yahweh. i used to be atheist in the beginning, searching for truth. i'm still on that quest, for i attempt to decipher most bible readings i've gone through (not that many). i'm no saint, but i'm aware of what i do, and i always try to never hurt anyone else. i'm my own victim. disgust is all i have to say about the catholic church. "universal" church? are you ****ting me? i despise how evil comes under the guise of holiness to further it's own agenda.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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Good for you cloud...........

I think everyone that searches for true meaning ends up knocking on Gods door eventually.

My belief is that each of us finds God in his or her own way and does not need to belong to a formal religion to do it. There is much I admire about the Catholic faith, but there are some things I have very great concerns about as well.

I once had a girlfriend that was a Jehovah's Witness, and I asked God about all of this. There is no way I could ever abandon my career live like that. The answer surprised me. They truly love God and express it in a way that can sometimes be rather annoying to others. But they are good people.

So it is really a case of finding your own way to God. A very good start is to try to understand what others believe. There is a very good book "Encyclopedia of Living Faiths" by R.C. Zaehner. It gives a complete rundown on the beliefs, practices, and history of about twenty of the worlds greatest religions. ISBN 0 09 107521 1

Any of these are the pathway to God. The religious leaders will tell you otherwise, belong to their little group or burn in hell, it simply is not so.

So find something you feel happy with and grow spiritually.

As to the other side, I have studied Freemasonry for twenty five years, but could never join. I know all your dark secrets, you hate God and you will reap what you sow. Being a guy I know nothing of witchcraft. It is really freemasonry for the girls, with probably a very similar final result.

You will end up finding whatever you seek. Just be sure you are looking in the right direction.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 08:56 PM
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The Pope being the Anti-christ, of course he would lie.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 04:33 AM
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GNU....thanks for the info.......well said

The Schism that did occur in 1054 was actually the final one...between the East and West..

History and differences East and West....

orthodoxeurope.org...


There are many differences in the way the Church looks and the way the priests perform certain rituals.....eg....Babtism is done full immesion in the water and 3 times signifying the 3 days of Jesus Christ on the Cross.....it is like being re-born Quote\\
We were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead (Colossians 2:12).

Moreover, the watery mystery is connected with the Holy Spirit, the Divine Person that accomplishes rebirth (John 3:5-6; Acts 8:39; cf. Acts 1-2).

orthodoxeurope.org...


Now,would the Pope/Vatican lie or hide the truth?
Well that depends on what they want to hide or what they believe they are withhelding from usthe people.......Are they really hiding anything that God cannot see?
In the end all must be known to all......it is written in prophecy that the Roman Catholic Church will fall and right before the appearance of the Antichrist , the whole world will be split into two groups ......one that will accept the teachings of worldly power on earth and one that will follow the teachings of the early church which will be once again known to the whole world .......free will does come into it because then many will want to accept the easy way and forget why Jesus Christ came to earth and died......many will want to have all things here ......



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 01:44 AM
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Ok being of roman catholic origin this is difficult to right. i have had a crisis of faith for some time. my whole family is roman catholic.

I recently recieved an 1860 edition bible and its easier to read then the new ones of the past at least 10-20 years.

Something told me "don't believe in organized religion, just believe in god and christ "

now i know why... in reading the bible in prophecy and in jesus' warnings it is clear..


"Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ…" Luke 21:8

"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not." Matthew 24:23

and to beware and not fallow false prophets.

now...
there are those that say the pope is infallible...

IMPOSSIBLE!





The Pope: Infallible
According to Catholic doctrine, the Pope is infallible in matters of doctrine, faith and morals.

"In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a supernatural sense of faith the People of God, under the guidance of the Church's livi ng magisterium, unfailingly adheres to this faith." Pg. 235, #889

The Catechism restates the same belief this way:

"The Roman Pontiff... enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith - he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals... This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself." Pg. 235, #891

Sadly, this doctrine is but another tradition of men that contradicts Scripture. The Bible declares that all people are sinners. No one is perfect or infallible in anything:

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10

the more i read of the teachings of the bible. the more i am convinced that the catholic church is influenced by satan the king of deception. and my heart aches for all those sheep beeing led to the slaughter.

I am a non practicing catholic now. I read the word of god and avoiding sin.

and praying to god that i can be forgiving for past sins.

listen to this discription..

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8

The devil knows that to devour you he must keep you from obeying God's Word.

Here's his plan:

First, he creates a religion, complete with all the religious trappings to make it appear authentic.

Next, he formulates unbiblical doctrines that members must perform. People become so busy obeying these rules they never find Christ.

Another earmark of Satan's religions is the denigrating of Jesus Christ. The devil hates Jesus and knows that He is the only way to heaven (John 14:6). Therefore, Satan will do everything He can to keep people's eyes off Christ.

Unfortunately, this plan has been working for centuries. Don't underestimate Satan. He is a master deceiver. (See Revelation 12:9.)

Please don't let the devil deceive you any longer. He is your real enemy and he is using a religion to keep you away from Jesus Christ. Please don't let him keep you away any longer.

Turn to Jesus today. He is waiting to set you free. God bless you as you experience true salvation in Jesus Christ:

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5-6

I prayed that god show me the true religeon and that is just believing in christ and fallowing his teachings.

and trusting and loving god.

......

now i know why in church they are being forced into the rosary and a bunch of hail marys and statues (idols) everywhere. my eyes are opened.

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

Jeremiah 7:18


----------------------------------one more thing.. this is where praying to mary came from....



Mary: Recipient of Prayer
Catholic doctrine commands members to pray to the virgin Mary:

“By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One... May she welcome us as our mother at the hour of our passing to lead us to her son, Jesus, in paradise.” Pg. 644, #2677

It is imperative that you know whether these statements are from God or merely traditions of men. Therefore, we will examine each statement:

Asking Mary to pray for us: A tradition of men, not found in the Bible.
Mother of Mercy: Another tradition of men.
Mary is the All Holy One: A tradition of men. We've already shown that God is the only “All Holy One.”
Mary welcomes us at death: A tradition of men, not taught in the Bible.
Mary leads us to Jesus: Another tradition of men, not found in God's Word.
Please understand, Catholic friend, God never said any of these things. They are all traditions that came from the minds of early Catholic leaders:

“From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of `Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs...” Pg. 253, #971

That people should pray to Mary in their times of trouble is another tradition of men concocted by Catholic leaders of the past and handed down to Catholics today. Never does Jesus or anyone else in the Bible instruct people to pray to Mary.

Who should we pray to?

The Bible directly contradicts the Catechism by directing people to pray to God alone:

“Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” Jeremiah 33:3
“And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.” Psalm 50:15


When trouble comes, call upon God, not Mary:

“Give ear, O Lord, unto my prayer... In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.” Psalm 86:6, 7
“He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.” Psalm 91:15


Literally hundreds of Scriptures teach us to flee to God when trouble comes our way. Not a single verse encourages us to pray to Mary:

“But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.” Psalm 37:39
“O LORD, be gracious unto us; we have waited for thee: be thou their arm every morning, our salvation also in the time of trouble.” Isaiah 33:2

“Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.” Psalm 41:1


Should you cast your burdens on Mary?

“Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.” Psalm 55:22

King David prayed all through the day... to God:

“Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.” Psalm 55:17

The psalmist proclaimed:

“The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.” Psalm 145:18

In the New Testament we read:

“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” Philippians 4:6

Who will you pray to?

I hope to open some more eyes unto the deciet that satan has plagued the world with. even among good men and woman that think they are worshipping in gods name.

please pray for those souls.. and only pray to god the father of heaven and earth. of all things. lest we make him angry for praying to others.

good luck.. and god bless.. spread the word. the word of god.

JT


ME

posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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I'm not sure if the current Pope knows what planet he is currently on, nor does he know what goes on with-in the secrecy of the vatican.

I thought I read somewhere that the 'secret vatican documents' where suppose to be revealed soon . . . Hmmmmmmm, 'wonder what that will bring on.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 03:45 PM
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The Pope is a politician with a Holy Seal. If he feels that the information contained in their vaults might disrupt society, then it will be kept secret, and even lied about. Common sense.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Have you never heard of Papal Infallibility?

Papal Infallibility didn't become dogma until 1870. And, it only pertains to matters of dogma issued by the Pope. It has been argued within the church for centuries.

"In its most strict application, the attribute of infallibility is possessed supereminently, and essentially, in no one but God, Who is Absolute Truth. By way of a gift, or a sharing, this divine prerogative has been granted by the Author of creation to an office, occupied (the Papacy), and to a Book, inspired (the Bible). Philosophically speaking, everything that exists must he essentially true, infallibly declaring its essence (that is, what it is) by its very existence."
www.catholicism.org...


Although there is much here I don't agree with, it is an interesting article.
In everyday stuff, the Pope lies like the rest of us.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 05:20 PM
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DTOM,
Good find! Here's a "Way Above" for you!

CS



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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Thanks, CS.
I found it too good and article not to share.


It truly amazes me the things the Church has waffled on through the ages:
infallibility
WWII
women and their souls
women
married priests
black popes; Pope Joan

Anyone, feel free to add to the waffling list!



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 10:35 PM
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well considering....the " church has been run by men, who are fallable sp

and evil will creep n crawl to decieve....yeah church is quite capable of deceit....


but God will punnish those quite severly those who stain the church...


all I CAN SAY IS THIS...I believe...in God, and JESUS is our savior.....I am stuggling to love my neihbor....as I do myself....and it aint easy to be As GOD wants us....thats why Jesus was sent to save us...


I also think that its starting to haPPEN......Y'KNOW WHAT i MEAN..



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 01:24 AM
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have you seen the cross on the chair the pope sits on?

Its UPSIDE DOWN. I thought that was a sign of Devil worship or something?

Correct me if im wrong?



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 05:27 AM
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www.kensmen.com...

this is a website dedicated to aspects of the truth;

it is on topic, and has many different articles even: explaining why what you se today is what it was yesterday.


and i am sure an intsitution would lie or keep the truth just as well as a man would just as easily;for, isnt the institution created by man and maintained by man?and does not man have traits that others deem subjectional? i can say with 100% clarity that this is true.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 07:37 AM
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Ya' know. There sure are a lot of folks that talk and talk about what they think the Catholic church is and they actually don't have a clue. I wonder how many people who hate the Catholic church have actually gone for information from the Catholic church itself, instead of getting information from protestant ministers or anti-Catholic sites?

Papal Infalibility. This has nothing to do with the pope as a person, it has to do with doctrinal issues. Popes sin. This pope we have now goes to confession all the time.

Pope Joan? Nope. Never exhisted. That's just a crock. A hoax made up by some bored people or some folks who hate what they think the Catholic Church is. A fairy tale myth.

Catholics worshipping Mary and statues. Nope. The Catholic church says that worship belongs to God ALONE. Catholics believe in prayer intercession. We can all pray for each other to God. That includes that the saints can pray for us to God as well.

Catholic church and the Jews in WWII - just anti-Catholic propoganda. Go watch the true story 'The Scarlet and the Black'. The Vatican was smuggling American soldiers and Jews out of Italy and was doing it's best to save lives.

Upsidedown cross on the Popes chair being the sign of the devil? That's a stretch.

So - wading through the anti-Catholic postings - the original question was can the pope and the Catholic church lie? The pope could lie. The Catholic Church can withhold information if it deems necessary but DOCTRONALLY can not lie. Matthew 16:18 (You are Peter, the Rock. Upon you I shall build my Church. THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.) If the Church lied in doctrine, then then Hell will have prevailed and Jesus would have been, at least in error, if not fully in a lie. That isn't possible.

Closing with a statement from the late Bishop Sheen - Not many people really hate the Catholic church, they only hate what they THINK the Catholic church is.



[edit on 6/7/2004 by FlyersFan]

[edit on 6/7/2004 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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I do not see this as anti Catholic propaganda or hatred of Catholicism.

What I see is that the Church has been infiltrated by some satanists and moral perverts. So beware, all is not what it seems on the surface these days. Saying that there are a few rotten priests is not an attack on the whole Church. God will put this right.

Put your trust in God the Father, and in Jesus, and you cannot possibly go wrong.



posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 02:22 AM
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66.218.71.225.../Athens/Rhodes/7895/aarome.html&w=popes+chair+cross&d= 9D62DEF2FF&c=482&yc=63805&icp=1


ALot going on behind the scenes ...

and i was brought up roman catholic..

always saw something "not right with it"



posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 02:23 AM
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posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 03:00 AM
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it matters not what your social institution is through the public, just as long as you'll bite the bullet once it is their time to expire.



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